Microsoft vs Google - Requesting your feedback

[dmj]

An advantage in my opinion of M365 is that students will be using (teacher quote) 'real-world tools'. e.g. When they go out out to work or uni, it's unlikely they'll be encountering Google.

 

I like Google and its pretty powerful and simpler to administer than M365, however its horrible to use and the interface is fugly and confusing, particularly for teachers.

 

This is completely wrong.

First point is that teaching isn't about using tools, it's about learning concepts.

 

Second point is that I worked in University (Google and MS) and now in industry. The University was also a teacher training hub, and they exclusively taught with Google they considered it to have a pedagogical advantage of ease of use for (school) students esp with Classroom.

In the company I currently work at, we are 100% google and the companies that we deal with, about 80% are Google and 20% MS - but we tend to deal with 'tech' type companies and not the type of longstanding institutions that stick with MS. So yes students will be encountering Google products in their careers.

[mikkydoos]

OK guys whoa.... dont get me wrong.

 

Any tool that is secure, benefits learning and accessibility and teaches kids skills is great... but we're using two and it isn't working.

 

I'm only echoing the general feeling in my environment.

 

and this comment... 'An advantage in my opinion of M365 is that students will be using (teacher quote) 'real-world tools'. e.g. When they go out out to work or uni, it's unlikely they'll be encountering Google.' isn't my own... it is opinion I've encountered.

 

You all know how difficult it is to try to push new methods in schools... I'm trying to get a general gist of what pro's/cons each platform may bring based on your experiences outside of the opinions in my environment.

 

 

As I said in the OP, your comments will help inform me so please lets stick to positives.... and I do appreciate your comments all thank you.

Edited January 10, 2025 by mikkydoos

[Ditto]

A result from a ChatGPT question in relation to a couple of points above

 

It does go one to say "Additionally, while Google Workspace may have a larger number of users, Microsoft 365 often leads in revenue, suggesting a higher proportion of enterprise customers."

 

I did ask ChatGPT to comment on the education sector, but it didn't really bring any greater insight. It did however highlight that Bath Spa University migrated from Google Workspace to M365. the article is at https://aspiracloud.com/insights/2024/04/16/google-workspace-vs-microsoft-365/.

 

I'm sure the opposite story could be found, and I note the the AspiraCloud are very much a Microsoft shop!

[Rob_D]

I am gobsmaked - I have never met a single person that didn't think google was waaaay easier to use than the absloute hot mess that is teams/sharepoint/etc

 

Anyone who primarily uses Google and occasionally dips into 365 is obviously going to be rather lost. But it works the same the other way around, as primarily a 365 user, if I need to do something in google, it's a case of stumbling around until I find the thing I need.

 

To be fair, these days they seem much of a muchness. But coming from legacy office, I personally found it much easier and smoother to transition to 365 than google.

[midweek]

We are M365 here and I will say that it has improved a lot in the last couple of years. Just seems more reliable and easier to use than it was. Intune still has a way to go though.

 

Can't comment on Google (we have it but don't really use it) but I know a lot of the Indie schools up my way use it and are almost evangelical about it.

[Sylv3r]

We are a O365 trust - however, we do have some Chromebooks in some of our schools so we do utilise Google for the management and security of those devices and I actually think through having SSO setup etc - that they do work well, even with our O365 tenancy.

 

I think purely from an administration point of view O365 gives us so much more, yes there's an additonal licence cost to most of the security features I think these are light years ahead in terms of the google offering.

 

We use InTune as our MDM for all of our trust devices (other than the chromebooks above) - so we are managing, Windows, IOS and Android devices this way.

 

All communication is done via O365 whether that's e-mail, Teams, Sharepoint etc.

 

All Teaching and Learning is done via O365 - Online Office, Teams, Reading Coach etc

[Primus]

We are a O365 trust - however, we do have some Chromebooks in some of our schools so we do utilise Google for the management and security of those devices and I actually think through having SSO setup etc - that they do work well, even with our O365 tenancy.

 

I think purely from an administration point of view O365 gives us so much more, yes there's an additonal licence cost to most of the security features I think these are light years ahead in terms of the google offering.

 

We use InTune as our MDM for all of our trust devices (other than the chromebooks above) - so we are managing, Windows, IOS and Android devices this way.

 

All communication is done via O365 whether that's e-mail, Teams, Sharepoint etc.

 

All Teaching and Learning is done via O365 - Online Office, Teams, Reading Coach etc

 

I think it's very hard to compare as you'd have to be an experienced expert in both platforms - I'd be interested in which security features you feel M365 has which are light years ahead of the Google offering.

[Rob_D]

I think it's very hard to compare as you'd have to be an experienced expert in both platforms - I'd be interested in which security features you feel M365 has which are light years ahead of the Google offering.

 

Based on what I've seen people say on here, the 365 conditional access seems to have more granular customisation options than Google's.

 

What does Google have that would be the equivalent to the 365 data loss prevention tools? (Things like data security labelling and blocking or warning the user against the sharing and emailing of certain files, or documents containing things like National Insurance numbers or bank numbers)

 

After conditional access (where it looks like MS has the advantage) and anti-spam (where google is probably better out-of-the-box), I think DLP stuff is probably the biggest security element schools are likely to use.

[Ditto]

Unfortunately I am not in a position to summarise, but have a look at https://support.google.com/a/answer/9646351?hl=en

[mavhc]

https://support.google.com/a/answer/12643733?hl=en&ref_topic=9262521&sjid=7261225132429150135-EU for context aware access

 

DLP https://support.google.com/a/answer/10324934?hl=en&sjid=7261225132429150135-EU

[Primus]

Based on what I've seen people say on here, the 365 conditional access seems to have more granular customisation options than Google's.

 

What does Google have that would be the equivalent to the 365 data loss prevention tools? (Things like data security labelling and blocking or warning the user against the sharing and emailing of certain files, or documents containing things like National Insurance numbers or bank numbers)

 

After conditional access (where it looks like MS has the advantage) and anti-spam (where google is probably better out-of-the-box), I think DLP stuff is probably the biggest security element schools are likely to use.

 

Google has DLP and we've got it implemented.

[Rob_D]

Nice. I assumed google had some sort of DLP, I was just wondering how it stacked up against the MS offering. By the looks of it, there's not much difference in capabilities or the way it works.

[PotNoodleTech]

We had a chap from samsing came in as they kindly loaned us a screen for a concert.

 

Chatting to him - he was quite surprised at the amount of equipment we had for just one school. Also got to talking about chromebooks, I was quite suprised to learn they are google top to bottom and everyone including him had a chromebook.

 

Just goes to show there are companies using google day in day out, we just don't get to hear of it in general. If it wasn't for that chance conversation we wouldnt know.

[mavhc]

The fundamental philosophical difference is: Every year MS emails me at least twice to tell me I have a bill of £0 to pay, and Google doesn't.

[dmj]

Based on what I've seen people say on here, the 365 conditional access seems to have more granular customisation options than Google's.

 

What does Google have that would be the equivalent to the 365 data loss prevention tools? (Things like data security labelling and blocking or warning the user against the sharing and emailing of certain files, or documents containing things like National Insurance numbers or bank numbers)

 

After conditional access (where it looks like MS has the advantage) and anti-spam (where google is probably better out-of-the-box), I think DLP stuff is probably the biggest security element schools are likely to use.

 

There's a Data protection insights Report that Google workspace produces, some predefined content detectors for Data Loss Prevention and you can build your own more detailed ones.

https://support.google.com/a/answer/9646351?hl=en&sjid=10767302151888428388-EU&visit_id=638721185229709484-1260030628&ref_topic=9646660&rd=1

 

I think the Google conditional access ( called Context aware access ) is actually rather granular, and you can write your own rules, apply them to certain groups, or combine DLP with CAA so you can block certain context from certain locations or if the device isn't up to (security) spec.

 

 

I think that most people don't get into the weeds of *both* systems, so those familiar with one will extol the virtues. Google is at a disadvantage here because a lot more schools will pay Microsoft for the higher level features (because they have always done so) yet tend to have their Google workspace on a lower paid tier.

[Ditto]

The fundamental philosophical difference is: Every year MS emails me at least twice to tell me I have a bill of £0 to pay, and Google doesn't.

Your gonna have to share how you do that! I'm with a charity (i.e. Not for Profit) which is not always so different. My charity employer spends stacks on MS and then 3rd party support. Whilst I learnt we had NfP Workspace when I joined 5 years ago, it was in the hands of a control freak with no technical knowledge, so we get no value from it from my perspective! I've love to tell them how to reduce their expenditure, increase my pay and provide more front line services.

[Guest]

ChromeOS is more locked down for users by default, but it also has the double-edged sword of limiting admins' ability to configure devices. The reliance on Google to roll out a feature or fix issues and being forced to only have the GAC policy choices is a pain.

 

Windows allows for far more customization, but requires more endpoints to configure properly. It is also obviously much more vulnerable by default and harder to get up and running quickly. Actually allowing administrators to use 3rd party tools and software to further configure the device unlike other people *cough Google is a plus.

 

My answer basically goes down to the type of organization you are. If you are just starting out and dont have the time/resources/budget to fully setup and configure your systems, Chromebooks are a great choice. If you are larger and have the time and budget to properly setup and secure your systems, Windows is the better choice.

 

Of course you could just load templeOS on all your systems (best overall option)

[mavhc]

Your gonna have to share how you do that! I'm with a charity (i.e. Not for Profit) which is not always so different. My charity employer spends stacks on MS and then 3rd party support. Whilst I learnt we had NfP Workspace when I joined 5 years ago, it was in the hands of a control freak with no technical knowledge, so we get no value from it from my perspective! I've love to tell them how to reduce their expenditure, increase my pay and provide more front line services.

 

https://www.google.com/nonprofits/workspace/compare/?sjid=3918759972969957261-EU google workspace for nonprofits $0/month 100TB of storage

 

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/microsoft-365/enterprise/nonprofit-plans-and-pricing Free for 300 users, have to use web/android/ios versions of word etc, 1TB storage

[Ditto]

https://www.google.com/nonprofits/workspace/compare/?sjid=3918759972969957261-EU google workspace for nonprofits $0/month 100TB of storage

 

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/microsoft-365/enterprise/nonprofit-plans-and-pricing Free for 300 users, have to use web/android/ios versions of word etc, 1TB storage

Thank you. I'm going to do some further digging. Sadly, Workspace is just too big a mindset shift for our current leadership team - 5 years in I'm still fighting for them to move from a seriously weak Case Management System. On MS, I believe we are a mix of Microsoft 365 Business Premium (Nonprofit Staff Pricing) for most staff and for volunteers etc., we license Microsoft 365 Business Basic (Nonprofit Staff Pricing). In truth the number of staff needing full desktop apps is more limited than we acknowledge. I use VB objects in some Excel Workbooks, but I know I am very much an exception. The other thing is we have recently moved to Microsoft Defender for Business. We dropped another product (can't remember which). Our IT provider charge us for the transition, but after a number of months, we will be making a saving. Security, or the perception of security is very important to our leadership, including trying achieve some level of certification, so they'd except the £4-50 pppm fee for that. I do wonder if our IT support costs more than our licensing, but we don't have the level of internal expertise needed to be self sufficient.

[gszech]

Two years ago, an external penetration test on our hybrid Chromebook/Windows network revealed several critical vulnerabilities:

- Legacy protocols: Fallback protocols like LLMNR, mDNS, WPAD, and NETBIOS were enabled.

- IPv6 preference: IPv6 was enabled and preferred over IPv4 by DHCP.- Weak SSL certificates: Domain Controller certificates used weak hashing algorithms.

- Outdated Apache servers: Older Axis CCTV and a Dymo print server running Apache 2.4.x versions below 2.4.59 had multiple vulnerabilities.

- Weak cipher suites: The 4Matrix server supported SSL cipher suites vulnerable to the SWEET32 attack.

 

We patched up what we could straight away and we decided to migrate our entire environment to Chromebooks. Our rationale was straightforward: If students could effectively learn and work on Chromebooks for the past 12 years, there was no reason why other users couldn't do the same. This transition involved moving many services to the cloud and presented some challenges for staff members still adapting to the new environment.

 

However, a subsequent penetration test on the Chromebook-based environment revealed zero vulnerabilities.

I'm not looking back. The best part is that I won't see this message anymore "Working on updates 17% complete, Don't turn off your PC. This will take a while."

Edited January 13, 2025 by gszech

[PotNoodleTech]

Two years ago, an external penetration test on our hybrid Chromebook/Windows network revealed several critical vulnerabilities:- Legacy protocols: Fallback protocols like LLMNR, mDNS, WPAD, and NETBIOS were enabled.- IPv6 preference: IPv6 was enabled and preferred over IPv4 by DHCP.- Weak SSL certificates: Domain Controller certificates used weak hashing algorithms.- Outdated Apache servers: Older Axis CCTV and a Dymo print server running Apache 2.4.x versions below 2.4.59 had multiple vulnerabilities.- Weak cipher suites: The 4Matrix server supported SSL cipher suites vulnerable to the SWEET32 attack.

We patched up what we could straight away and we decided to migrate our entire environment to Chromebooks. Our rationale was straightforward: If students could effectively learn and work on Chromebooks for the past 12 years, there was no reason why other users couldn't do the same. This transition involved moving many services to the cloud and presented some challenges for staff members still adapting to the new environment.

However, a subsequent penetration test on the Chromebook-based environment revealed zero vulnerabilities.

I'm not looking back. The best part is that I won't see this message anymore "Working on updates 17% complete, Don't turn off your PC. This will take a while."

 

Outstanding!!

[Ditto]

There's been a mini-surge of votes for MS, leaving a dead heat at 28 each! Just wondering what the OPs thoughts are given all the feedback. @mikkydoos, any reflections at this stage? Edited January 13, 2025 by Ditto

[dmj]

There's been a mini-surge of votes for MS, leaving a dead heat at 28 each! Just wondering what the OPs thoughts are given all the feedback. @mikkydoos, any reflection at this stage?

 

It takes the MS users longer to respond: They have a lot more work to do.

[gszech]

It takes the MS users longer to respond: They have a lot more work to do.

 

They had to install another Windows Update that broke something

[mikkydoos]

There's been a mini-surge of votes for MS, leaving a dead heat at 28 each! Just wondering what the OPs thoughts are given all the feedback. @mikkydoos, any reflections at this stage?

 

@Ditto ...

 

Thoughts ? We're thinking MS as we have our staff on there and I think change would spark revolution. They're only using Google at present for posting homework. It's the old everyone using Outlook and living in their email problem.

 

 

Indeed, I agree with most Google guys here that the management in MS is so overcomplicated, particularly setting up Intune... Google certainly wins on that front.