Koldov Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 There's been a few car thefts recently from my local area and it prompted me to look at a GPS tracker solution. Although I don't' think my car is high-risk (I guess a large, white, KIA SW isn't top on any criminal gang's wish list to chuck in a container and ship off to Dubai), there's always the chance the local yobs wouldn't be against taking it on the local new road and running it ragged, drifting round the roundabouts and doing donuts until it ends up in a ditch (which we hear them doing quite often late at night)... So, I thought I would just have a quick browse on t'internet... Obviously that's as much use as trying to Google a printer problem, there are thousands on the market and as usual all get both good and bad reviews, ranging from £5 to £500, powered by battery, wire in, OBD, using Apple Find My, VHF, SIM card (even using 2G networks which apparently are going to be switched off at some point?)... As well as up front cost, there's also ones that use a SIM card and pay-as-you-go, or monthly charges PLUS cost per call or network data usage costs... What a minefield! The thing that struck me is that my OH has a Garmin (I think) 'smart' watch which she uses to measure her running 'data' (time, distance, heart rate, even steps/movement and elevation, etc.), she has set it up to email me an alert when she starts and I can even follow the link to get a real time location and route on a map for when she is running a fair distance from home (it can even send a distress alert). I'm not saying it was cheap (I don't actually know how much it cost), but it's the size of a watch (obviously), runs on a (rechargeable) battery, and has a lot of other functions besides the GPS tracking. I don't know how it works, but don't think it uses a SIM card, doesn't have any monthly charges that I know of, doesn't need a 'phone number' that you have to text, is quite accurate on the GPS side of things and although the watch does have an app for the other data, the GPS tracking just shows on a map in a browser... What am I missing? Why isn't this tiny part of the watch (GPS function) available as a thing? Why does it have to be a £500 pound wire-in job for a car? Is there such a thing as a small-ish, battery operated, 'relatively' cheap one-off cost, non SIM card, no app to download, no monthly fee, GPS tracker solution?
triangular Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 The GPS bit is easy, just listen out for the satellites and you know your position. The hard part is that you then need to send that data over the internet somehow, which is where all of the running costs and sim cards come in. You also need somewhere on the internet to send the data to so that you can see where your car is, which is where all of the apps come in. I haven't looked into any solutions so I can't really recommend anything, but I would probably want something that's hardwired with the option of sending the data to a custom endpoint so no third party gets my gps coordinates. 2
Koldov Posted September 20, 2023 Author Posted September 20, 2023 Yeah, I guess Garmin are a pretty big company and maybe just swallow those sort of costs (?), All I'd need is that if it detects movement, it emails me a link to a map so I can see where it is. So my point was if my OH can click a button on her (£150?) watch and I can get an email that links me to map where I can see her run round the park 20 times, with none of the other SIM, pay monthly, network data fees, app download shenanigans... why isn't that thing available as a vehicle tracker... or is it?
tmoon-mint Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 I had my car fitted with a Scorpion tracker and immobiliser earlier in the year, it was expensive but worth it. I now get notifications to my phone if the car starts outside of the time frame I would usually use it, if it moves without the ignition running. Those are just a few of the alerts you can setup. For the immobiliser part I have to plug in a key fob for a few seconds before the car will start so cloning the key or using the OBD port isnt going to work. The immobiliser prevents the starter motor and fuel pump from working without the key fob so a bump start isnt going to cut it either. Just for a little cherry on top I have ScorpionTrack stickets in the driver and passenger side windows, just as a "dont even bother trying" message to any thieves.
triangular Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 I'm guessing that if the watch itself doesn't have a sim then it is paired to a phone which does. There's no real way around needing an internet conenction.
flyinghaggis Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 Not GPS based but would an Apple Air Tag (or similar) be an option? I use them on my bicycles for security and keep one in my car (can be handy for finding it when parking as well!). https://www.apple.com/uk/airtag/
Garacesh Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) There's a lot of small devices that you just charge up and slap a sim card in, typically they last around a week? I had one that I stashed in the frame of my ebike back when I cycled to work. You do need to find a way to wire them in, or keep remembering to charge them up, though. Edit: A quick gander on Amazon shows some you wire into the battery. For someone doing something a little more organised, that'd likely be ripped out sharpish, but just to find where it's been abandoned if someone's taken it for a joyride, might do the trick? Edited September 20, 2023 by Garacesh
Davit2005 Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) I follow the Auotmatrics MTrack youtube channel, find it quite interesting, I'm no way connected jus find the process interesting. They offer solutions for Cars, Plant, Motorbike, etc. and can easily call on the police to help recover stolen property. With the tech around is it as bad as the joy riding days of old? personally I'd of thought it would be more organized i.e. property stolen to sell on, break up or use in other crime. Not saying that cars are no longer taken jus for the fun of it. I had my 1st car stolen in 1989 it was defo a jus nick to get them home it wasn't worth much not even scrap and paint was 15 shades of rust, lol. It still meant a lot to me thou as was my first car and only a month after I'd bought it. Was found about 15 miles away in front of a church in good order, they didn't even take the stereo which was not much in itself and I jus drove it straight back home after putting some fuel in. Edited September 20, 2023 by Davit2005
LeMarchand Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 Had a vaguely similar question a while back: https://www.edugeek.net/forums/netbooks-pda-phones/228890-find-my-shared-car.html. You might find something that works for you there. The two in my question still don't trust each other enough to use Life360 or similar!
Koldov Posted September 20, 2023 Author Posted September 20, 2023 I'm guessing that if the watch itself doesn't have a sim then it is paired to a phone which does. There's no real way around needing an internet conenction. Ah, now actually that's a good point... I guess she does have her phone on her whilst running, so I might have been missing that point, thanks! Not GPS based but would an Apple Air Tag (or similar) be an option? I use them on my bicycles for security and keep one in my car (can be handy for finding it when parking as well!). https://www.apple.com/uk/airtag/ I did see Apple Air Tags and I've got to say I'm a bit confused on the technology... I thought they were Bluetooth and relied on being close, or apparently anyone with an Apple device being close? Also, although I have an iPhone, it's quite old (5S) so not sure on the compatibility side of things. There's a lot of small devices that you just charge up and slap a sim card in, typically they last around a week? I had one that I stashed in the frame of my ebike back when I cycled to work. You do need to find a way to wire them in, or keep remembering to charge them up, though. Edit: A quick gander on Amazon shows some you wire into the battery. For someone doing something a little more organised, that'd likely be ripped out sharpish, but just to find where it's been abandoned if someone's taken it for a joyride, might do the trick? Yeah an awful lot on Amazon, but looking for a positive 'I've got this one and it's brilliant' edugeek review rather than rely on the internet! The SIM thing (more research needed I guess) and the 'download our appz' thing bothers me though, but charging I could do everyday at work. Yeah I don't think I'm too worried about an organised crime gang, not only could they possibly rip it out, I see there are also GPS blockers available on Amazon for about a tenner I follow the Auotmatrics MTrack youtube channel, find it quite interesting, I'm no way connected jus find the process interesting. They offer solutions for Cars, Plant, Motorbike, etc. and can easily call on the police to help recover stolen property. With the tech around is it as bad as the joy riding days of old? personally I'd of thought it would be more organized i.e. property stolen to sell on, break up or use in other crime. Although a lot of newer cars are probably harder for the average miscreant to steal, there's plenty of older cars to go for (also with the tech around to bypass the security features getting cheaper and easier to obtain)... I saw some CCTV camera footage the other day of a couple of dodgy geezers on someone's driveway, one was near the front door waving something about and the other was near the car, after a few seconds the car unlocked... All I can say that in the few years since we've had a new bypass/link type road built behind us, most evening (especially on a Sunday night for some reason) it's basically used as a racetrack, with cars speeding and screeching whilst drifting round the roundabouts. On the drive in to work the next morning the tyre tracks and donut mark are all over and a few times there's been a car crashed through the barriers, in a ditch or through a fence...
StevieM Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 A colleague had her car stolen a few months back. The tracking info showed that it was just around the corner...but it wasn't. The police said that this happens regularly as the thieves drive the car a short distance, then disconnect any tracking devices.
elsiegee40 Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 Air tags do rely on someone with an apple device having been in the vicinity but, as those of us using them for keeping an eye on suitcases can verify, an awful lot of people have iPhones! @ZeroHour tested this with his “lost bag” at BETT this year. Another in the “cheap and cheerful” category is Tile. You get more features if you pay a Tile subscription 1
Davit2005 Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) Although a lot of newer cars are probably harder for the average miscreant to steal, there's plenty of older cars to go for (also with the tech around to bypass the security features getting cheaper and easier to obtain)... I saw some CCTV camera footage the other day of a couple of dodgy geezers on someone's driveway, one was near the front door waving something about and the other was near the car, after a few seconds the car unlocked... All I can say that in the few years since we've had a new bypass/link type road built behind us, most evening (especially on a Sunday night for some reason) it's basically used as a racetrack, with cars speeding and screeching whilst drifting round the roundabouts. On the drive in to work the next morning the tyre tracks and donut mark are all over and a few times there's been a car crashed through the barriers, in a ditch or through a fence... That is a good point with keyless entry but if you have keyless you could put the keys in a safe container that blocks the signal. You can't simply wave a wand and open a lock that can only be opened by a key, unless you are a wizard. Edited September 20, 2023 by Davit2005
mavhc Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 Annoyingly in EU Nissian won't let me "Find my car" which has gps built in, but in USA it will. I'd get an old smartphone, put a PAYG sim in it, wire it into the battery and hide it, and have it SMS you its coordinates based on some rules, in response to an incoming SMS, or when it thinks it's moving without another known device nearby, family member phones. Or after rapid acceleration (stolen or crashed)
Koldov Posted September 20, 2023 Author Posted September 20, 2023 Air tags do rely on someone with an apple device having been in the vicinity but, as those of us using them for keeping an eye on suitcases can verify, an awful lot of people have iPhones! @ZeroHour tested this with his “lost bag” at BETT this year. Yes, I did skim past a search result link that apparently showed an Air tag being tracked across the world! Another in the “cheap and cheerful” category is Tile. You get more features if you pay a Tile subscription I think Tile work on a similar principle to Air tags: "In the unlucky event that your car gets towed or stolen, you can count on the global Tile Network to have your back. Instead of freaking out about your lost car, just activate your vehicle as lost on the Tile app. Then, every phone running the Tile app will automatically and anonymously start scanning for the lost Tile in your car. If someone with the Tile app goes by your vehicle, you’ll instantaneously get an alert with your car's latest location. This can help you or the police recover your vehicle." Could be the unlucky person to have your car stuck at the back of a dirt track or field where nobody really goes and probably even less likely to find someone with the tile app than an iPhone?
Koldov Posted September 20, 2023 Author Posted September 20, 2023 That is a good point with keyless entry but if you have keyless you could put the keys in a safe container that blocks the signal. You can't simply wave a wand and open a lock that can only be opened by a key, unless you are a wizard. I'm sure I've posted on here about it before (and I wish now I'd kept the CCTV footage).... But late one night one of my dogs (who had an upset tummy) was whining to go out, the OH put on her dressing gown to let him out and followed him up the garden. At the end of the garden is a fence and a gate leading onto our driveway, by some weird twist of fate a ne'er-do-well was walking down the street trying all the door handles of the cars and as the OH reached the fence he tried the boot of our car... it opened... and then he came around and tried the door... and then he started rummaging about in the glove box etc. The OH heard it, looked through the fence and saw what was happening, so she started shouting and banging on the fence and obviously the guy did a runner (hopefully off to change his pants and give up his life of crime)... we worked out she had her car keys in her dressing gown pocket!
Davit2005 Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 As I've said with keyless entry you are bound to have this problem, unless we go to fingerprint, retina or some chip implanted into our body. We want convenience in things we do but security and convenience don't always go hand in hand, note don't always.
mavhc Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 That's before you use a relay transmitter to extend the range of the keys from, say, inside your front door to your car parked outside. But it's so convenient, I never take my keys out of my pocket!
Davit2005 Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) https://www.amazon.co.uk/signal-blocking-box-car-keys/s?k=signal+blocking+box+for+car+keys The first time I encountered keyless was when I used to drive a previous managers top of the range Lexus over 12 years back, bit annoying when you have OCD and feel the need to check the handles but I got used to it after 3 years of having my own car with KESSY. Edited September 20, 2023 by Davit2005
Andrew_C Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 bit annoying when you have OCD and feel the need to check the handlesTook a fair while to stop MrsC going back to check that I'd locked the car - with her keys in her handbag. 1
mavhc Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 Don't you need to press a button on the handle to unlock it though?
Andrew_C Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 Nope. Just pull the handle with a key in range. No warning clicks, clunks, or flashes. Can be set to alarm the car if you just walk away, but not lock it. This is NOT a good idea. (4am, collecting sorta-dorta's friends for an airport run. They got to the car before me. I worked out how to disable it soon after) 1
jmak Posted September 20, 2023 Posted September 20, 2023 Vaguely on topic.... I now always leave my car keys near the door. The vast majority of car thefts now use the keys - I found this out when a friend woke up in the middle of the night with the car thief in his bedroom looking for car keys. Car thieves generally only come when you're at home so they're up for the risk of meeting someone and will keep looking until they find the keys. If I had keyless entry, I'd put the key in a metal case so that the codes couldn't be grabbed from outside the house - but I would label it "car keys" and leave it by the door. It's a shame the eCall system that has been mandatory on cars type approved since 2018 can't be used for theft tracking as well as crash detection. It means that they all have GPS and a mobile phone connection built in: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-tech/101706/what-is-ecall-automated-emergency-call-technology-explained 1
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