Spec for primary pupil laptops

[chaplic]

we have 30 laptops for primary pupils, half of which are consumer-spec acers about 10 year old, upgraded with SSDs and new batteries. the other half are enterprise grade laptops probably of similar vintage.

 

They are still doing the task asked of them and teachers do not perceive anything different soon, but with impending win10 EoL and the fact replacement parts are getting tricky (for the HPs I'm buying dead machines off ebay for the keyboards) we are looking at replacing them. My preference is refurbed machines rather than low end new. Here's my spec list, any comments

 

 

Minimum requirements

Windows 11 supported (TPM2.0, Core processor >= 10^th Gen, Ryzen >3100)

>=120GB SSD (not e-MMC)

8GB RAM

From: Asus, Acer, Microsoft, Lenovo, Dell,HP, Toshiba or MSI

Wireless-AC WiFi

UK Keyboard

UK Power Supply

 

Desirable

USB-C charging

NVMe storage

Enterprise class rather than Home models

Windows 11 Edu license

Autopilot registration

 

Undesirable / not a consideration

RJ45 network

DVD drive

[localzuk]

I would highly recommend an SSD of 240GB or above. We have had some 120GB SSDs in the past and we had no end of issues with them filling up.

 

If your laptops are intended to last for a similar length of time, I would also be specc'ing 16GB RAM these days - doesn't take a lot to use up 8GB in Windows now, so give it a couple of years and 16GB seems like it'll be a necessity.

 

Finally, you should be looking at Wifi 6, rather than AC. The DfE technology standards say schools should be implementing Wifi 6 these days.

[thimon]

Lenovo ThinkPad L13 Yoga's for our primary school from September, running Windows 11. i5, 256GB SSD (kicking myself that I haven't gone bigger), 16GB RAM.

[chaplic]

I had a right good chuckle reading the DFE standards and then thinking of the budget.

 

In terms of disk space, we're all Azure AD joined and Onedrive and it's been performing like a champ - the drives have 60GB free

 

WiFi, I've chosen a lower spec because I don't want preclude an otherwise decent reconditioned enterprise machine, and the internet connection is 60Mbit/sec with the school out in the sticks, and the current wifi doesnt do 6 anyway I dont see this as a limitation.

 

RAM I am less sure about my decision but then again one or to 8GB sticks should cost bobbins as-and-when assuming the machines will take it.

 

I've also specd what I think are reasonably chunky processors, because the atom based 'free' dell laptop from DfE (with eMMC) does not perform as well as an old core i5 with SSD.. Interested if others perceive that as new low end laptops are seriously cheap.

[atcoates]

I had a right good chuckle reading the DFE standards and then thinking of the budget.

 

In terms of disk space, we're all Azure AD joined and Onedrive and it's been performing like a champ - the drives have 60GB free

 

WiFi, I've chosen a lower spec because I don't want preclude an otherwise decent reconditioned enterprise machine, and the internet connection is 60Mbit/sec with the school out in the sticks, and the current wifi doesnt do 6 anyway I dont see this as a limitation.

 

RAM I am less sure about my decision but then again one or to 8GB sticks should cost bobbins as-and-when assuming the machines will take it.

 

I've also specd what I think are reasonably chunky processors, because the atom based 'free' dell laptop from DfE (with eMMC) does not perform as well as an old core i5 with SSD.. Interested if others perceive that as new low end laptops are seriously cheap.

If your school gets selected for Connect The Classroom funding in a year or two your devices would miss out on the WiFI 6 from the DFE.

[Ditto]

Perhaps you have considered this already, but are Chromebooks and Google Workspace an option? We had these at a primary school, enough for one per child, every classroom. They met all the needs for the teachers, which is key, but were a doddle to manage. Personally, I found the education environment around this platform so much more enthusiastic and simple to navigate than the equivalent Windows environment. Re-training staff is going to need to be factored in, and we had many new teachers join us as we grew, but pretty quickly, all saw the advantages of the quick start and go of this option.

[psydii]

At the low end:

 

The latest N100 Celerons (four efficiency cores only) are alleged to have about the performance of a 2015 era i5 core.

 

Some EMMC is perfectly fine for this use case, don't write it off until you have tried it. The Acer B3's we got during the pandemic were great. The Dells and Asus's were not, despite the headline spec's being the same. The actual chips matter.

 

FWIW IMO, Windows Pro Education and Autopilot support are *essential* to ensuring you are meeting the baseline spec for security and management.

 

Finally, I am not at all sure 8G is a worthwhile spot to go for. Windows does some magic to work well in 4Gb. It stops doing that magic when running in 8Gb so performance between 4/8 is more or less the same, provided you are keeping things to vanilla Windows and web apps only. If 4 becomes insufficient, then 8 will also be insufficient.

[localzuk]

My comments are based more on the fact that your school used its existing kit for 10 years. So, is this new kit likely to be expected to last that long? If so, going for those few extra items on the spec ensures a bit more longevity.

 

And yes, if you're on a slower connection in a rural area, you're likely to see some investment from Connect the Classroom at some point, both in terms of wifi, and potentially internet connection speed.

[DrCheese]

Finally, I am not at all sure 8G is a worthwhile spot to go for. Windows does some magic to work well in 4Gb. It stops doing that magic when running in 8Gb so performance between 4/8 is more or less the same, provided you are keeping things to vanilla Windows and web apps only. If 4 becomes insufficient, then 8 will also be insufficient.

 

 

eh? It really doesn't. You might be thinking of M1/2 Macs which have unified memory with the local storage, but Windows 11 certainly doesn't play well with just 4gb of ram & It's pegged constantly. We tried this with our DFE Laptops until we got fed up of complaints and converted them all to ChromeOS Flex.

[chaplic]

If your school gets selected for Connect The Classroom funding in a year or two your devices would miss out on the WiFI 6 from the DFE.

 

I've just spent a bit of time fantasy shopping on ict-direct and none of the machines I fancy supported WiFi-6. Is there somewhere buried in the T&Cs your clients must support it? clearly if buying new it's a no-brainer

 

At the risk of sounding all bill gates / 640kb a decent HD stream is 10Mbit/sec so hard to see it's not overkill.

[chaplic]

Perhaps you have considered this already, but are Chromebooks and Google Workspace an option? We had these at a primary school, enough for one per child, every classroom. They met all the needs for the teachers, which is key, but were a doddle to manage. Personally, I found the education environment around this platform so much more enthusiastic and simple to navigate than the equivalent Windows environment. Re-training staff is going to need to be factored in, and we had many new teachers join us as we grew, but pretty quickly, all saw the advantages of the quick start and go of this option.

 

I'll mention it in the interests of transparency but I won't be recommending it. Partially because they still use software that was supplied on floppies (ok I could provide that over RDP or find equivalents) but we have no skill in this area and dont intend to develop it!

[localzuk]

Partially because they still use software that was supplied on floppies

I would suggest that this is also something that needs looking at too - old software, that isn't being supported any more, should be withdrawn from a security risk POV, as well as a data protection risk POV. I know budgets don't necessarily fit, but they didn't here either, and we've managed to eliminate it all over the last 5 or so years. Several attacks on schools have been through outdated software according to the DfE technology standards.

[sigma]

I also look after a small rural Primay - just 3 classrooms. We have a Microsoft Licence agreement through Phoenix - so I buy kit with Home Edition or whatever is best price whih I then re-image as I think this works out cheaper as far as laptops are concerned and does not stop us moving forwards with software versions "in our own time". I had 14 decent pupil laptops, and have just bought another 28 to replace the 10 year old tat and donated tat.

[Aprice]

I also look after a small rural Primay - just 3 classrooms. We have a Microsoft Licence agreement through Phoenix - so I buy kit with Home Edition or whatever is best price whih I then re-image as I think this works out cheaper as far as laptops are concerned and does not stop us moving forwards with software versions "in our own time". I had 14 decent pupil laptops, and have just bought another 28 to replace the 10 year old tat and donated tat.

 

Think you might need to be careful here, my understanding is that a volume licence still requires an existing OEM licence in place. I.E if you have bought a laptop with WIN10 Home you are not eligible to use a Win10 Pro volume license on it.

 

I'm sure someone else can confirm or say I'm wrong here. Microsoft Licencing isn't my area of expertise as it's nothing but a confusing mess.

 

***EDIT***

Might be an exemption for Academic use, can anyone confirm?

Edited May 25, 2023 by Aprice

[sigma]

Nor mine other than it’s what I’ve always been advised as an Education option.

[localzuk]

Think you might need to be careful here, my understanding is that a volume licence still requires an existing OEM licence in place. I.E if you have bought a laptop with WIN10 Home you are not eligible to use a Win10 Pro volume license on it.

I'm sure someone else can confirm or say I'm wrong here. Microsoft Licencing isn't my area of expertise as it's nothing but a confusing mess.

***EDIT***

Might be an exemption for Academic use, can anyone confirm?

Education volume licenses include "upgrade" licenses. Home edition is an eligible OS to upgrade from. Also, in general, you aren't installing pro editions, you're installing the Education Edition.

[tmoon-mint]

I would love to be in a position where I have the budget for 16GB of ram for pupils! I cant even stretch to that for staff. Would love to know how you guys manage that on your budgets.

[localzuk]

The difference in price between 8GB RAM in a laptop and 16GB is minimal - push comes to shove, buying the RAM module yourself costs about £15 for an extra 8GB, so about £500 for a full class set of devices.

[HTCPCP]

The difference in price between 8GB RAM in a laptop and 16GB is minimal - push comes to shove, buying the RAM module yourself costs about £15 for an extra 8GB, so about £500 for a full class set of devices.

 

This! All our 8GB devices are regularly getting flagged for high usage even just on basic tasks. It's well worth getting the 16GB, even if you update it yourself. Will reduce the moaning and gripes from users, and will extend the usable life too. Just make sure that the kit you go for isn't soldered RAM and actually has a spare DIMM available for it though.

[mjhardisty]

Take a look at the vendors offering Windows 11 SE devices. Depending on curriculum needs they may be perfect. Windows 11 licence included and pre-configured with Shared PC policies that are locked down. Prices from around £180.00.

[chaplic]

Just to update the thread, decided to go with Lenovo T480s with 16GB of RAM from ICT-Direct, who have been super so far (but i've not got the goodies yet ;-)

[chaplic]

To close this thread off

 

Kit from ICT-Direct took longer to arrive than promised and I wasn't proactively informed, but they did get back to me within a couple of hours when I emailed a ticket in asking for updates

 

Devices arrived well packaged with only 8GB of RAM when I'd paid for 16.

 

When I got in touch they shipped out 15 8GB sticks which was what I was wanting because I didn't want to ship them back to ICT-direct.

 

I was a little nervous the machines would be autopilot-registered with someone elses tenant but not an issue. No OS on the devices which wasn't really an issue for me. Secure boot was turned off (had a panic when win11 refused to install at first till I figured it out). bios needed updating

 

Of those 15 ram sticks, 2 were duff and replaced promptly with no hassle

 

I dont know if they have some kind of secret sauce for cleaning up the machines, but the quality of them was excellent, they might as well have been new. Some had a second inbuilt battery and one had a "chungus" big external battery (named by my son who I had recruited to upgrade the ram)

 

We have a few bumps along-the-way but I think the measure of a business is often made when things go wrong and I've been really happy with ICT-Direct, and would certainly use them in future where lead time is not an issue.