OneDrive, Office365 and Opening Files

[petben]

Here's the scenario:

 

• OneDrive Sync Tool Installed
  
• User Opens a very large Office file in their user folder.
  
• The file downloads to C:\Users (slowly)
  
• User makes some changes and the file syncs/uploads to OneDrive (slowly)
  

 

 

I thought with Office365 installed files in OneDrive would open from OneDrive Cloud rather than downloading? How can collaboration possibly work if everyone works on their own copies in C:\Users?

[MicrodigitUK]

Here's the scenario:

 

• OneDrive Sync Tool Installed
  
• User Opens a very large Office file in their user folder.
  
• The file downloads to C:\Users (slowly)
  
• User makes some changes and the file syncs/uploads to OneDrive (slowly)
  

 

 

I thought with Office365 installed files in OneDrive would open from OneDrive Cloud rather than downloading? How can collaboration possibly work if everyone works on their own copies in C:\Users?

 

Only works with modern office files with X postfix on extension and in the most updated version. So .doc uses sync client .docx works directly if in the most recent .docx format. You can upgraded the format in word on file tab. Also check you haven’t set OneDrive sync settings to force sync for office files rather than open on Office365 and work online. There is a GPO setting for that.

[MicrodigitUK]

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/converting-documents-to-a-newer-format-34ec742e-f0f9-4d95-bbe3-3ee8e30a86fa

 

https://admx.help/?Category=OneDrive&Policy=Microsoft.Policies.OneDriveNGSC::EnableAllOcsiClients

Edited January 25, 2023 by MicrodigitUK

[mullet_man]

How big is the big office file?

 

We find files download pretty quick even if they are pretty large, and you know what teachers are like we have some PPTs that are 50+mb plus.

[psydii]

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/topic/files-needing-attention-faq-5c944ab8-1dd5-44f3-9dc6-9cd35846f8ab

 

There is an interplay between the onedrive client managed files and the "office file cache" that I do not fully understand. The above document suggests that the "office file cache" is only used if the file is not already on disk and managed by the OneDrive client app. However I am sure I have read (and believe I also have experience of) that for collaboration (i.e. the ability for multiple users to edit the file simultaneously in the locally Microsoft App Suite apps and with others working remotely / on the web) the Office File Cache is used, and some magic keeps the local version in OneDrive sync'd with that.

 

My impression on how this all works is as follows:

 

If the user double clicks via explorer, it triggers the OneDrive client to download it.

 

If the user opens from the web and chooses open in App, the Office File Cache is used.

 

If the user opens a file through a locally installed app using the SharePoint/OneDrive (default) UI, the file (probably) opened via the Office File Cache. If the user forces the file-open UI into the standard win32 control then it is invoking the Explorer based method for opening the file.

 

I have not really tested this thoroughly so I could be wrong... but I'm pretty sure I am mostly right.

 

Anyhow for the best experience you absolutely want to have "File Collaboration - .... by syncing files with Microsoft Office" enabled.

[petben]

I am testing with some v. big Office files - e.g. 2GB PowerPoints. Unusual, but they're only files I found in our Curriculum folders...

[petben]

Thanks for the replies, what we are trying to simulate and have a plan for, is when students work on a files, click save and then log off while OneDrive is synchronising the changes (hence losing their work). How do you prevent/minimise this?

[psydii]

Thanks for the replies, what we are trying to simulate and have a plan for, is when students work on a files, click save and then log off while OneDrive is synchronising the changes (hence losing their work). How do you prevent/minimise this?

 

I would observe that if you are trying to 'break' it and struggling, then perhaps the sync process is sufficiently robust to be relied upon. I do commend though wanting to understand how it works, how it breaks and how to fix it *before* you roll it out to your users.

 

For us (OneDrive roll out started with 1709, and completed with 1903) since 2020 students in most courses are exclusively working through Teams so use the webapps.

 

That said plenty of people still work in the desktop apps and also in photoshop (saving to OneDrive folders on the local machine)... It mostly is just fine. Teachers whose classes handle large files have a working practice that reminds kids to save their work well before they log off.

 

We see maybe one student every few weeks whose files didn't sync across before their session logged off. But teachers allocate seats/laptops to specific students per class so we send them back to log on to that pc to recover. If urgent and the student can't remember where they last were we go spelunking for it and between our service desk software, defender and sccm we can usually find which machine they saved their work on, even if they can't remember.

 

I would mention though that nobody should be having 2gb PowerPoints, and if they are causing problems have people re-work them to be smaller? It is not unreasonable for employees to have to alter their working practice when new technology comes into play.

[Boredguy]

We try and minimise it though repeated information to staff that the best way to access documents in Office if it's in OneDrive, Teams or SharePoint is via the "OneDrive" or "Sites" UI within the office application. Also if they are creating a new document from scratch, make sure to save it straight away. Delta updates are quicker that way.

If they get the Explorer Folder view up then they must wait for the client to say it's updated.

 

Thankfully most of our office documents are not any larger than 200mb so it doesn't take long to sync up but students have found out the hard way with non Office Applications if they don't wait a few minutes before logging off at the end of the lesson as the file is then gone when they come back the next day as we clear profiles either on logoff or after 1 day depending if it's a local or roaming profile.

[petben]

That said plenty of people still work in the desktop apps and also in photoshop (saving to OneDrive folders on the local machine)... It mostly is just fine.

 

 

We are thinking about the Adobe Cloud as maybe being a solution for all the CC Apps, they are nearly all cloud compatible now. However we have found an issue where when an App (Photoshop for example) first opens it seems to see that the user is not signed in and makes the save to cloud unavailable, then the user signs in (it prompts them after a few seconds) but the save to cloud option remains greyed out until the next time the App opens....

 

 

Maybe we ditch the Adobe cloud idea and just use OneDrive.

[petben]

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/topic/files-needing-attention-faq-5c944ab8-1dd5-44f3-9dc6-9cd35846f8ab

 

There is an interplay between the onedrive client managed files and the "office file cache" that I do not fully understand. The above document suggests that the "office file cache" is only used if the file is not already on disk and managed by the OneDrive client app. However I am sure I have read (and believe I also have experience of) that for collaboration (i.e. the ability for multiple users to edit the file simultaneously in the locally Microsoft App Suite apps and with others working remotely / on the web) the Office File Cache is used, and some magic keeps the local version in OneDrive sync'd with that.

 

My impression on how this all works is as follows:

 

If the user double clicks via explorer, it triggers the OneDrive client to download it.

 

If the user opens from the web and chooses open in App, the Office File Cache is used.

 

If the user opens a file through a locally installed app using the SharePoint/OneDrive (default) UI, the file (probably) opened via the Office File Cache. If the user forces the file-open UI into the standard win32 control then it is invoking the Explorer based method for opening the file.

 

I have not really tested this thoroughly so I could be wrong... but I'm pretty sure I am mostly right.

 

Anyhow for the best experience you absolutely want to have "File Collaboration - .... by syncing files with Microsoft Office" enabled.

 

I have set the reg key but we are still experiencing the same behaviour.

 

- Open any (.pptx) file from a OneDrive folder in explorer and it downloads and then opens in the desktop App.

- Open the same file from the browser selecting 'Open/Open in App' and file opens instantly from the cloud, no downloading, in the desktop App.

 

There must be way to make files opened from Explorer also behave like this?

[psydii]

Just done a test myself. I am not convinced that it does open instantly in the App with "no downloading".

 

The first time I got a warning that I was in view only until the file was read and given I could see objects loading in, I suggest that "until the file is ready" means "until the file and associated resources have downloaded into the Office Files Cache". The second time I opened the file in this way it was instantaneous.

 

If the file has been hydrated by the OneDrive client in the user-facing folders, opening the file should be instantaneous too. Also I had understood that the locally installed 365 Apps understand what is going on an also use the Office file cache to rapidly sync changes for collaboration. I haven't tested this. As observed by others, you do need to be using modern office file formats with up to date 365 Apps, since docx etc. are actually zipped folders, they don't play well with differential sync, and rely on the office cache for quick syncing of changes.

[Boredguy]

If you are using the client version of an Office application, it still needs to pull the file information from the cloud to the local machine (download), but it then uses delta sync to keep the files updated.

 

Using the Web version of the Office application is doing all of that at the server side instead of in the browser cache.

[mullet_man]

You can set the files/folders to be always kept on the device so the files will always be downloaded to the device and should open in the full app quicker but I wouldn't recommend as if its a shared resource and someone dumps gigs of data into a folder then all your devices will be downloading it. We keep everything as online only and no one has complained about the slowness of files downloading and opening.

[petben]

Thanks, is this different to 'files on demand'?

[mullet_man]

Thanks, is this different to 'files on demand'?

 

Yes sorry Files on Demand is the files are "in the cloud" until you want to access them and when you double click a file OneDrive downloads the file, if you work on these files regularly it will keep them local to your device which will speed up access when you need them.

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/what-do-the-onedrive-icons-mean-11143026-8000-44f8-aaa9-67c985aa49b3

 

All the icons and there means are shown here.

 

Like I said we use files on demand and it's been fine, especially helpful when logging into a new device it then doesn't download everything just the placeholder files until you require them.

[MicrodigitUK]

Thanks for the replies, what we are trying to simulate and have a plan for, is when students work on a files, click save and then log off while OneDrive is synchronising the changes (hence losing their work). How do you prevent/minimise this?

 

If you want to make sure the files continue syncing when students move between shared windows PCs You’re still gonna need some local network file storage for the One Drive sync cache and use FSLogix VHDX Profiles and particularly the office container.

 

If you use FSLogix profile technology when a user next logs onto a PC OneDrive sync just continues where it left off. So this resolves the issues with large media files from the AdobeCS apps. Only downside and we have found is that users cannot log onto multiple computers at once as this locks the office container and a OneDrive sync cache Is not compatible with multiple simultaneous sessions. (Only really an issue for staff users who have multiple shared PCs e.g. a classroom computer and a office computer) We’re looking at working around this with a warning (From a log on the script) about OneDrive sync and potential data loss if they log onto more than one PC simultaneously.

[petben]

Thanks MicrodigitUK, we have just started thinking about FSLogix, and we thought the multiple sessions scenario could be a sticking point. There is an article on this https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/fslogix/configure-concurrent-multiple-connections-ht but I dont think the multiple vhdx's will ever merge.

 

Also during our testing we found that FSLogix blocked our OneDrive 'files on demand' setting and made everything from the users onedrive download.

 

anyone use fslogix successfully in a school?

[KK20]

oh yes. been here. older PPT created by someone who does not know how to compress images. It was a 150 page art demonstration, each slide had up to 4 images, each images was the original JPG. The PPT was monstrous. Obviously I migrated our onsite to sharepoint library. Once this file was attempted to be opened it locked the file, it was an old PPT so it would just kill the machine that you tried to use. I needed to pull the original from the backup, compress images, convert to PPTX and it then worked relatively well (it was still a few hundred Mb in size).

 

Then the drama department started to upload the raw video footage from the digital cameras. Single huge files. That didnt work well when trying to edit them in premiere. So our video library is still a QNAP NAS with a request not to try and use the sharepoint libraries!

 

the main problem with these errors is the file locking in sharepoint, I dont know a way to release a lock early. In the old file share days you could simply close the open file on the server but there isnt a facility to do that in sharepoint online.

 

we use Cloud drive mapper for our sharepoint and onedrive access. Live access to files, no caching on save so the logoff wont fully process until it has saved.

Edited February 1, 2023 by KK20

[petben]

 

we use Cloud drive mapper for our sharepoint and onedrive access. Live access to files, no caching on save so the logoff wont fully process until it has saved.

 

 

This is what we have been worried about - students working for a whole lesson in photoshop, not saving, then at the end of lesson save and immediately log off, the sync has no chance.

What's the config (in CDM?) that prevents log off until it finishes syncing?

 

Thanks

[KK20]

there is no config, its just a mapped drive. The same would happen if you were saving to a regular network share and you log out. The log out pauses and asked if you want to force close - obviously if you do that it wont sync, but then again on a network regular share it wont save AND probably corrupt.

[petben]

thanks, so it's a different user experience to OneDrive sync? We find this saves the file (locally) then the file closes and the user can log out, BUT the OneDrive sync tool may still be 'processing changes' in the background.

[Dan2025]

oh yes. been here. older PPT created by someone who does not know how to compress images. It was a 150 page art demonstration, each slide had up to 4 images, each images was the original JPG. The PPT was monstrous. Obviously I migrated our onsite to sharepoint library. Once this file was attempted to be opened it locked the file, it was an old PPT so it would just kill the machine that you tried to use. I needed to pull the original from the backup, compress images, convert to PPTX and it then worked relatively well (it was still a few hundred Mb in size).

 

Then the drama department started to upload the raw video footage from the digital cameras. Single huge files. That didnt work well when trying to edit them in premiere. So our video library is still a QNAP NAS with a request not to try and use the sharepoint libraries!

 

the main problem with these errors is the file locking in sharepoint, I dont know a way to release a lock early. In the old file share days you could simply close the open file on the server but there isnt a facility to do that in sharepoint online.

 

we use Cloud drive mapper for our sharepoint and onedrive access. Live access to files, no caching on save so the logoff wont fully process until it has saved.

 

We're looking at Cloudmapper as an option as the onedrive sync has been a very mixed bag. Some users have got it working pretty well, others just wall after wall even with basic testing issues are cropping up.

 

How does cloudmapper work with doc library permissions? I.e in our SP, I have 3 sub sites which then navigate to quite a few different doc libraries. Some areas are completely locked down to a few members of staff, others are read only or have certain folders that are restricted etc.

 

Does it work well with shared devices?

Edited February 1, 2023 by Danwinchelsea

[KK20]

We use CDM with old fashioned roaming profiles, we dont have a fully intune/AAD setup, we are still hybrid. Our libraries also have various sub folder permissions in each. CDM uses the 365 logon to attempt each library you want mapping - no permission no drive. I only have one policy for all our libraries, pupils get one drive letter, some staff two others a few. You can have one overall drive letter for everyrthing but I found that took too long to map.