How to manage 2 VDSL lines for internet provision

[Ditto]

I suspect this forum will lead to an answer the ISP sales staff can't!

We currently have ADSL (or maybe VDSL) line to our charity HQ. We believe we are over the capacity for our needs. Leased lines are beyond us in terms of need and expense, so I'm exploring the option of two lines. That appears to be no problem for the providers, but my question is how are these setup to provide a load balanced provision that is seamless for the end user experience. The answer from one ISP of the user picks which router didn't really sit well with me! I have some vague memory of 'bonded' connections, but can anyone guide me on the options with two lines.

BTW, there's no sign of Gigabit anytime soon so I think this is our best option, but I am open to other suggestions.

[andy_b]

Think people often use Draytek Routers for these kind of things:

 

https://www.draytek.co.uk/information/solutions/load-balancing

[SchoolsBroadband]

Draytek routers will do the trick. A Fortinet firewall will allow application based routing policies over different WAN links and will also allow the failing over of traffic from one to another in event of failure too. Its more advanced than the Draytek but a Draytek will probably do what you need and will be at least half the price with no ongoing licensing costs.

 

Dave

[PaddyNewman]

Draytek will be cheaper than bonding. I looked at bonded ADSL for my home (rural so basically carrier pigeon is faster than the net) and it was more expensive even with the option of buying through my current employer and just paying a man to bond from their end for 30Mb than it was to just pay monthly for Starlink and get a (surprisingly stable) 10Mb backup line through BT.

 

But yeah another vote for Draytek.

[Wave9_Lee]

I suspect this forum will lead to an answer the ISP sales staff can't!

We currently have ADSL (or maybe VDSL) line to our charity HQ. We believe we are over the capacity for our needs. Leased lines are beyond us in terms of need and expense, so I'm exploring the option of two lines. That appears to be no problem for the providers, but my question is how are these setup to provide a load balanced provision that is seamless for the end user experience. The answer from one ISP of the user picks which router didn't really sit well with me! I have some vague memory of 'bonded' connections, but can anyone guide me on the options with two lines.

BTW, there's no sign of Gigabit anytime soon so I think this is our best option, but I am open to other suggestions.

 

Just be aware that if you have any centrally hosted services (firewall/filtering for instance) then the second line won't have it unless you buy through the same provider

[pantscat]

Draytek routers can be a bit interesting when it comes to load-balancing, insofar as that they don't always, in my experience, seem to do it terribly well.

 

I'd recommend looking at a proper bonded-VDSL service, or, potentially, if you're in a very good service area, consider a 5G connection?

 

Ant

[MatthewL]

Firstly how many users are using it at one time, anything else running in the background i.e. website or mail server.

 

What speed do you currently have, what is your exact package?

[chaplic]

I’m assuming its a small network basically similar to what one might have at home, and there isnt an on-premise proxy

 

Let’s imagine your current router is 192.168.0.1

Have the second ADSL line set to 192.168.0.2

Have one router dish out 192.168.0.10-192.168.0.100 default gateway 192.168.0.1 the other 192.168.0.101 - 192.168.0.200 default gateway 192.168.0.2

 

Each PC/ device will go out one-or-the-other device, roughly balanced.

[Ditto]

Firstly how many users are using it at one time, anything else running in the background i.e. website or mail server.

What speed do you currently have, what is your exact package?

Varies day to day, but average of 10-15 with a max of 40-50 when the boardroom is in use and a good number would try to use wifi, but give up and tried a wired connection, which would give variable results. We have a website but I'm certain it is hosted off site - but the website is currently out to tender. No on site servers. In truth it's a very simple setup. I think we have only 2 printers/scanners, looking to get a third installed but that's proving more work than we hoped but that's for another day! I've identified our main switch as a Procurve 1400-24g with patch panel. There's then a second Procurve and a Netgear one.

 

Current package is VDSL giving about 40Mbps. Somehow, our old and bitter IT provider has hung on to that service and are being positively unhelpful but that's being addressed hence this thread. AFAIK, it's a domestic level TalkTalk service, so I'm telling my employer we must go for a business level service. There is a phone line with it that we don't use, so I'm looking at SoGEA, but having to check our alarm system.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Ditto

[MatthewL]

I would expect more than 40. Might be worth checking your line here.

 

For WiFi are you just replying on the router or do you have access points?

[Ditto]

I’m assuming its a small network basically similar to what one might have at home, and there isnt an on-premise proxy

 

Let’s imagine your current router is 192.168.0.1

Have the second ADSL line set to 192.168.0.2

Have one router dish out 192.168.0.10-192.168.0.100 default gateway 192.168.0.1 the other 192.168.0.101 - 192.168.0.200 default gateway 192.168.0.2

 

Each PC/ device will go out one-or-the-other device, roughly balanced.

It is small, but a bit more than a home network. We are basically two large portacabins joined by a gangway, but pleasantly kitted and has heating and aircon. For me, #1 issue is a single domestic line is insufficient and wish to move to business level. I believe 2 internet only lines will meet our needs and not be overly expensive.

[Ditto]

I would expect more than 40. Might be worth checking your line here.

 

For WiFi are you just replying on the router or do you have access points?

40 is perhaps me being a bit harsh, but it of course might vary day-to-day and certainly Wifi versus wired makes a difference. I work from hone 90% of the time so haven't checked regularly but I don't recall seeing over 50. Anyway, thanks for the link - here are the results which I know you will be able to better interpret than me.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]66617[/ATTACH]

 

A little more info: our router is a Draytek Vigor2862n. I have learnt is was EOLed a couple of years ago and I guess was installed around it's launch in 2017, but also suspect it's not had any updates since it was installed - are firmware updates a normal practice on routers? There are two AP's, can't recall the exact models, but when I checked I think they were also EOL and didn't support 5GHz. I have found one other that is an Draytek Vigor AP 800 which although unconfirmed, I believe is used for a 'Youth only' WiFi access.

[MatthewL]

Cannot see attachment.

 

If its 2 portacabins I would expect 1 AP in each should cover it, maybe 2 one at each end. Could be they are currently both pumping out on the same channel and there is interferance causing the slow issues? Do a test on wired and see what you get.

 

I'd be looking at the internet and going from there but looking at putting in a better router to handle it all, even something like a Netgate 4100 running pfsense, get both connections setup to that.

[Ditto]

Trying again!

[MatthewL]

So looks like your download if nearly the best you can get. I'd review the network internally but if internet is a requirement for the charity I would be looking to upgrade to something faster.

[chaplic]

I suspect, for once, this might not be internet/ connection related. For comparison the school I look after has a 60Mbit SDSL line and through a naff proxy, total 70 odd IP devices and it’s all decent.

 

Unless eveyone’s streaming HD video or on teams calls it should be fine.

 

I also recall working on a temp site with about 50 people and it was awful. Internet itself was fine. Router itself was pants. I actually brought a replacement box from home (think it was just a spare sky router) and it was a lot better.

 

I would be tempted to have a couple of unifi APs or similar and turn off the WiFi on the router as the first step.

[nadeem]

If this helps - I have had a dual bonded VDSL connection from Spitfire - worked absolutely brilliantly and did exactly what I wanted. Pretty decent price too.

 

https://www.spitfire.co.uk