[tv show] Sky and Channel 4 strike deal to show 2021 Formula 1 season finale live...

[jthompson]

I gave up being a fan of one driver arbitrarily over another years ago. You end up being annoyed for no reason, and losing out on being able to properly appreciate the skills displayed by other drivers. I was a Damon Hill fan, and so wasn't able to enjoy Schumacher's greatness. More often than not, I was disappointed by the outcome of races and would spend the end of the races willing Schumacher to break down or spin off into the gravel, which was rarely satisfying.

 

RE: Max vs Lewis and their various collisions this year, I think one of things that's made this year such a classic is that they haven't taken one another off as much as they might have done. Stick Vettel in either Verstappen or Hamilton's place, for instance, and I think you'd have seen more silly bumping together. They've been exploring the outer edge of the boundaries all year long with exceptional skill (when is an aggressive pass too aggressive?), but without taking one another off that much.

[paulkerton]

Take your blinkers off.

 

Pot, meet kettle.

Re-read what I said please, with all due respect.

If it wasn't fair, it wasn't fair.

 

With all due respect, I don't think that what happened was unfair. Mercedes tyre decisions and pit craft has been poor all season long. If he'd have gone in for a change at the first opportunity when Max put on a second set of hards, then he'd not have been struggling on tyres that had gone 40+ laps at the end.

 

It should have been dealt with transparently, consistently.

 

You mean like radioing into race control to beg them not to bring out the safety car in one of the tightest, most dangerous part of the track to have a multi car crash if someone had gone into Latifi's Williams?

I'd be more upset that as a fan of a team that uses engines provided by my favourite team, who I'm taking their driver for the next season caused my team to lose the Drivers Championship.

 

Lewis lost. He shouldn't have been in the position to be on same points going into the final race in the first place as he had been treated incredibly leniently all season for a number of misdemeanours.

 

You win some, you lose some.

Edited December 13, 2021 by paulkerton

[XiJ]

Masi chose Netflix over sport. He’s brought this on Himself with whimsical and inconsistent decisions over the past 4 races at least.

Instead did trying to offer deals and please everyone, just implement the rules consistently

 

The result feels totally manufactured (I’m a self confessed Lewis fan and can’t stand red bull but I’m trying to be objective as poss).

 

Let all cars I lap as per the rules. The. Safety car in the lap after. Why so difficult?

 

Worst case, red flag, let both cars change tires and have 2 or 3 laps Bansai at the end (like Baku)

[paulkerton]

Worst case, red flag, let both cars change tires and have 2 or 3 laps Bansai at the end (like Baku)

 

Thats it. Let's make up rules to benefit Lewis, when there are specifically rules that state a Race Director has the ultimate say on how the safety car is used, but not the red flag.

 

Honestly, across the season Lewis has had so many decisions go his way, I can understand why his fans have got used to that being the status quo but its starting to feel like:

[Disease]

The result feels totally manufactured (I’m a self confessed Lewis fan and can’t stand red bull but I’m trying to be objective as poss).

 

 

That's the problem you are not being objective because you are a Lewis fan.

 

Massi had every right to only the 5 cars past as they were the ones that would interfere with the leaders of the race, the others that were way back would not have interfered with the race as there would only be one lap left.

 

Best line of the year goes to Michael Massi ' Toto, it's called a motor race' hahaha, shut Toto up proper.

 

I might get a T-Shirt Made with it.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Disease

[jthompson]

That's the problem you are not being objective because you are a Lewis fan.

 

Massi had every right to only the 5 cars past as they were the ones that would interfere with the leaders of the race, the others that were way back would not have interfered with the race as there would only be one lap left.

 

Best line of the year goes to Michael Massi ' Toto, it's called a motor race' hahaha, shut Toto up proper.

 

I might get a T-Shirt Made with it.

 

Were those 5 cars the only ones between lead lap runners, do we know? If they were released because they were the only ones between 1st and 2nd, rather than the only ones amongst lead lap runners, then I doubt that that's the proper procedure at all.

[HC_Netman]

the others that were way back would not have interfered with the race as there would only be one lap left.

 

So the cars between Max and Sainz didn't interfere in anyway? Sainz could've been right behind Max putting pressure on him at the restart as well. Not saying he would've been able to compete as he also had worn hards BUT it would add an extra dynamic to the final lap and give them all something to think about.

 

All cars should've been allowed to unlap themselves or none of them should. It was a farce.

 

And for the record I have no allegiance to either driver. I think they have both been incredible all season.

[Boredguy]

Yes they were the only 5 between 1st and 2nd on the track.

Riccardo has said he was tempted to try overtaking Max to unlap himself on the restart with his fresh tyres when he'd had the call from his engineer that he was to hold station even though Lando was one that was allowed to unlap themselves

Edited December 13, 2021 by Boredguy

[jnfarmer]

I wonder if any other teams are secretly lodging some sort of complaint about only a few cars being able to unlap themselves. With those lapped cars between 1st and 2nd having to pull over basically at the first corner, would that have slowed them down enough for other lapped cars behind the leads cars to try and get past them?

[mw184]

Massi, Mercedes and Red Bull all agreed they wanted to finish the championship battle on the track, not in the stewards room and not behind a safety car. Massi did what had to be done to make that happen. If the safety car had come out a couple of laps earlier, all of the lapped cars would have been allowed through, Max would still have been behind Lewis at the restart and would still have overtaken due to the tire advantage. Mercedes lost the race because they did not pit for fresh tires and RedBull played their strategy perfectly for that SC getting Max new rubber. Mercedes can only blame themselves for not playing their strategy right.

 

On another note I believe Team Boss's should not be able to talk directly to the Race Director during races like that. Toto and Horner both sending him radio messages whilst he is organising a restart shows they both are trying to influence the race. In my opinion in this matter, Toto was much worse for this and was shouting at the race director telling him he is wrong, where as Horner just asked about letting lapped cars through.

 

Also Mercedes bringing a QC to the race shows they were never going to accept the race outcome if they lost. Shows their true colours to me to be honest.

[paulkerton]

All cars should've been allowed to unlap themselves or none of them should. It was a farce.

 

AKA The chequered flag should've been taken under a safety car, or we shouldn't have gone racing at all and just give Lewis the win by default.

[mw184]

I believe the rules state "Any" lapped cars can unlap themselves behind the safety car. Not "All" which is a crucial distinction in the wording of the rule. If the rules said "All" then yes this would have been wrong. "Any" states that any car can, but they don't all have to.

[paulkerton]

Toto was much worse for this and was shouting at the race director telling him he is wrong, where as Horner just asked about letting lapped cars through.

Horner totally got under Toto's skin, and it showed. He really doesn't have the temprement when under any kind of pressure.

[jnfarmer]

On another note I believe Team Boss's should not be able to talk directly to the Race Director during races like that. Toto and Horner both sending him radio messages whilst he is organising a restart shows they both are trying to influence the race. In my opinion in this matter, Toto was much worse for this and was shouting at the race director telling him he is wrong, where as Horner just asked about letting lapped cars through.

 

Also Mercedes bringing a QC to the race shows they were never going to accept the race outcome if they lost. Shows their true colours to me to be honest.

 

Yes and yes. I don't think that chatter should be broadcasted anymore, don't think it adds any positive value.

[tg12]

Surely every team with a driver stuck behind a lapped car that wasn't released should feel aggrieved at the fact that their races were deemed not important enough to allow them to challenge for positions ahead of them on that final lap. Yes, blue flags mean those cars will jump out of the way but it's still a big delay. The championship is more than just the winner, those points and places determine prize money etc for teams. Edited December 13, 2021 by tg12

[paulkerton]

Yes and yes. I don't think that chatter should be broadcasted anymore, don't think it adds any positive value.

 

If it happens, it should absolutely be broadcast. I think we've got to find out how manipulative they can attempt to be.

That saying, Masi or any race director should be firmer from the get-go with them. Both Toto and Horner have clearly had too much influence over Masi this year.

[HC_Netman]

If the safety car had come out a couple of laps earlier

 

You mean before the accident occurred?? That would've been an interesting decision...

 

Lewis couldn't pit without losing track position at a point in the race where it was very likely it was going to finish behind the safety car. They had very little choice.

 

If there wasn't enough laps for every car to unlap themselves then the race should have finished behind the safety car which is exactly what would've happened in any other race.

 

They wanted racing and they had racing right up until the final 5 laps and Max couldn't live with Lewis.

[Boredguy]

Also remember that FOM decide when to broadcast the radio messages, be it from Team/Driver or Team/FIA.

FOM are attempting to get the younger generation interested, and for the most part it is working, but it's FOM that are choosing to play the Team Boss's comments over the air and at times missing out whole chunks of the before/after conversation.

[HC_Netman]

AKA The chequered flag should've been taken under a safety car, or we shouldn't have gone racing at all and just give Lewis the win by default.

 

Yes. Simple.

[jnfarmer]

I believe the rules state "Any" lapped cars can unlap themselves behind the safety car. Not "All" which is a crucial distinction in the wording of the rule. If the rules said "All" then yes this would have been wrong. "Any" states that any car can, but they don't all have to.

 

I wonder in that case if any of the lapped cars behind P1 and P2 asked to unlap themselves, if they didn't what would have happened if they did...

[mw184]

You mean before the accident occurred?? That would've been an interesting decision...

Not what I am suggesting. If the incident had happened a couple of laps earlier is what I was meaning. There would never be a time it is brought out for no reason, which is also not what I said. Teams should always be ready for safety cars as they can happen at any time as we saw. It is then down to them to play the strategy and hope they make the right call.

[Boredguy]

As I said, Ricardo was told by his engineer he had to hold station even though those in front of Max were allowed to unlap, same for those behind and some of them were fighting for position.

 

By unlapping themselves it gave Sainz his P3 since he had the gap on the remainder of the lap and a half.

[paulkerton]

Lewis couldn't pit without losing track position at a point in the race where it was very likely it was going to finish behind the safety car. They had very little choice.

They wanted racing and they had racing right up until the final 5 laps and Max couldn't live with Lewis.

 

Because of the tyres, which he should've changed as soon as Max put his second set of hards on.

 

So if Lewis had of changed his tyres and been behind Max on the track with a free lap to go, he might have been able to overtake him.

But he wasn't going to risk that because he knew if both of them got taken out Max would've won.

 

Lewis had (once again) bad pit strategy, and it wasn't the first or even second time this season they got that wrong. It's really as simple as that.

 

Once again, you win some, you lose some.

[mw184]

I would just like to add that with my posts I am just trying to interpret what happened without any bias towards any driver by just looking at what happened as it played out.

[jthompson]

Daniel Ricciardo:

 

“At the end, it was kind of weird, they said cars can’t pass, lapped cars, then some of them did, but then I wasn’t allowed to, we did a one-lap restart, I’m sitting right behind Lewis and Max, like why am I here? I don’t know. It was very interesting,” he said.

 

Why only those 5 cars allowed to unlap themselves? Why not other lapped cars between lead lap runners? Do Sainz and the rest not deserve a fair crack at improving their position also?

 

Those claiming that Mercedes threw it away by not stopping, I'm not sure that that's fair. They based their decision in part on rules that weren't properly followed, as well as on the basis of not wanting to cede track position during a safety car 5 laps from the end. Like, who'd do that and then run round to finish 2nd behind a safety car? If they're expected to factor in an unpredictable departure from the rulebook and base their decision on that, what kind of bizarre competition is that??