Moving away from RM

[MJoyeux]

Our primary school is looking to move away from RM and the windowbox/cc3 system.

 

Can any one offer any advice, comments or things I need to consider?

 

We have about 50 RM branded laptops and licenses for 68 RM CC3 - does this cover windows licenses for our existing laptops if we move away from RM?

 

We probably need a new server in the next couple of years, we are looking at getting 30 minibooks, either the HP models the the Acer EEE PCs in addition to about 8 laptops to replace the ones which have broken.

 

Obviously price is an issue. Any ideas?

[MJoyeux]

Or would it be worth moving to cc4...

 

Our main issue is with the price RM are quoting us for hardware... the software itself is fine for the admin and the staff (oh and the children!)

[kmount]

Hi there,

 

The RM CC3 licenses will include a Windows Client Access License (CAL) but they don't include a 'Windows XP License' which would probably be on the base of your laptops anyway.. so technically I'd say yes, you're covered in that respect.

 

It would be worth looking into why they want to move away from RM as its really something that needs to be considered before making the jump into a vanilla network.

 

The RM server could be flattened and reinstalled as a Vanilla Server 2003 domain controller but this would require some decent knowledge to provision ... more than to pick up and modify an RM system.

 

Hope this is of some use...

[kmount]

Or would it be worth moving to cc4...

 

Our main issue is with the price RM are quoting us for hardware... the software itself is fine for the admin and the staff (oh and the children!)

 

With that in mind, you don't need to buy hardware from RM to use on CC3 ... you can buy your hardware anywhere and build them onto CC3.

 

I'm not touching CC4 for a while yet as its not only delayed but those who do have it are having some problems I'd consider scarier than teething!

 

CC4 for us is a fortune in licensing too!

[ANiceEnglishman]

With that in mind, you don't need to buy hardware from RM to use on CC3 ... you can buy your hardware anywhere and build them onto CC3.

 

I'm not touching CC4 for a while yet as its not only delayed but those who do have it are having some problems I'd consider scarier than teething!

 

CC4 for us is a fortune in licensing too!

 

We've found we simply can't afford RM hardware at current prices. Recent quotes have been 25-50% higher than the likes of Dell or Lenovo (ex IBM).

 

We're still awaiting prices for CC4 licencing. Are you at liberty to say what you were quoted?

[Hightower]

I agree with Kim - we buy all our hardware from RM for some reason (not my call), but there's no reason why you can't buy it from elsewhere and build it on to CC3 - you just need to add the custom drivers to the build section.

 

If you do decide to move to Vanilla give me a PM - I have some nice little scripts (just batch files) that we used to transfer users etc.

[Maximus]

Hi

We had this same problem last year, I got a quote for a new CC3 server. I got quoted about 15k which for a small village primary school was just to expensive.

 

In the end I went for HP servers and installed windows 2003 myself with the help from sites like this and technet (it was a lot cheaper).

 

One thing I would be interested in looking at if I was to do this again is 'Learning Network Manager' from microsoft, designed specifically for schools etc and it is free (your still need your licences for server etc). It looks as though it gives you the bells and whistles that allow you to easily manager school users and workstations etc.

 

As far as laptops/desktops are concerned I think I will probably stick with RM, the quality is good and the support is excellent.

 

(It's always good to keep checking companies like HP and Dell to see what they offer and compare against what RM is offering. NEVER get anything without a 3 year warrenty especially laptops, its just not value for money).

 

Regards

Maximus

[sparkeh]

Hi

We had this same problem last year, I got a quote for a new CC3 server. I got quoted about 15k which for a small village primary school was just to expensive.

 

Sorry, can you clarify what exactly you were quoted 15k for? Thats just not a new server I am thinking.

[dgsmith]

We've found we simply can't afford RM hardware at current prices. Recent quotes have been 25-50% higher than the likes of Dell or Lenovo (ex IBM).

 

I am currently getting some quotes for a few machines from RM. Looked at Dell prices, gave it to our internal sales manager, and he beat it by around £30 (it was around £160 off the config price). RM will go down if you push them, but to me to have to go down that route is rather daft, as it pushes their custom away, as proven many times (even in this thread).

[Maximus]

New server

3 years support

Licences

etc.

 

But yes, basically it was 15K just to get one cc3 server and get our network connected to it!!!!

[sparkeh]

RM will go down if you push them

 

Ooh-er

 

But yes I am so tired of telling people this, but talk to your account manager and the prices magically tumble. I don't even bother with the website anymore.

 

I believe that its something the sales people are frustrated with too.

[Maximus]

This wasn't through the website, it was through the account manager.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like RM, just in this case they were to expensive for what we could afford. If you can haggle them down then go for it.

[dgsmith]

This wasn't through the website, it was through the account manager.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like RM, just in this case they were to expensive for what we could afford. If you can haggle them down then go for it.

 

Did you give them a competitive price to compare against? Normally, we will tell them what prices we have found/been offered elsewhere, which gives good grounding to base a price on.

[ANiceEnglishman]

I am currently getting some quotes for a few machines from RM. Looked at Dell prices, gave it to our internal sales manager, and he beat it by around £30 (it was around £160 off the config price). RM will go down if you push them, but to me to have to go down that route is rather daft, as it pushes their custom away, as proven many times (even in this thread).

 

Is this against Dell list prices? Have you spoken to a Dell Education rep and got their 'real' prices? Dell will come down considerably too!

Edited June 20, 2008 by ANiceEnglishman

[Michael]

I've never demoted a network running RM to a standard vanilla setup, but it would need a lot of planning and time. You would realistically need to wipe the server and install 2003 or 2008 as new, because there are so many custom RM components/tools used. It would be the only guaranteed way that there would be no RM components remaining.

 

The same would be applicable to workstations. They'd have to be re-imaged as again there are lot of custom RM components and tools you wouldn't need.

[pborrero]

Stay away from RM CC4!!!

[pborrero]

Or would it be worth moving to cc4...

 

Our main issue is with the price RM are quoting us for hardware... the software itself is fine for the admin and the staff (oh and the children!)

 

Not only our change from CC3 to CC4 was painfull. After almost a year of the server "playing" we have been let down by RM with a very bad and slow response to our complains. We (not RM) had to update the server with a SR1 which made things worst. Now the server is dead. And they are still trying to fix it online. It seems that they have nobody to come to our place and fix their mess.

Don't reccommend RM at all. Go to ERGO... at least their computers last forever!

[synaesthesia]

As much as I dislike the "Avoid xyz" ethos when theres only a personal opinion to go on armed with a googleful of complaints from anonymous others (lets face it, google enough and you'll find even more complaints about any other system you care to remember) - I have found with RM that you need to get in with certain support staff and sales individuals to get things done that little bit better. They suffer in much the same way as many other companies, taking a fair bit of faffing to get the right people. Unfortunately it's rare these days to get companies of that size and commitment that can supply that sort of service off-the-bat

 

Always found pushing it as far as you can until you get hold of that person, make sure you get their name and extension and become very friendly with them

[redmonster]

Hi all,

 

Just wondering if Hightower / Michael / any others have any particular gotchas they'd like to share regarding migrating away from CC3? We're definitely moving off RM. Fresh hardware, server 2008 R2, fresh client PCs, OS change - the works. We're faced with the option of keeping the existing AD in order to maintain user accounts & not have to rebuild a member server - or just scrap the load and do a fresh AD build. Re-creating users isn't much of an issue but rebuilding an admin server (SIMS) is a step I'd avoid if I could.

 

Are there problems joining new DCs to a CC3-based network? Would you expect a smooth DC promotion and subsequent demotion of the old RM DC or would you just scrap the lot and start from scratch? Will CC3 leave ugly bits hanging around in AD or does it "remove cleanly"?

 

Thanks in advance!

[jsnetman]

It really is not hard to go from RM to vanilla. You should perhaps prepare first. Get a lab situation going with a virtual server and a couple of virtual clients. Setup 2003/2008 whatever install dhcp and dns and active directory and get a workring machine and user group policy going with folder/desktop redirection. When I did it I kept the same type of mapped drives and shared areas that RM do so that even their MSI's work.

[mjs_mjs]

Moving from cc3 to vanilla is easier then starting over.... AD is there alreddy, just needs tidying up, you can just hack away at the rm components untill your pure vanilla. the GINA would be my first thing to get rid of.

[redmonster]

It really is not hard to go from RM to vanilla. You should perhaps prepare first. Get a lab situation going with a virtual server and a couple of virtual clients. Setup 2003/2008 whatever install dhcp and dns and active directory and get a workring machine and user group policy going with folder/desktop redirection. When I did it I kept the same type of mapped drives and shared areas that RM do so that even their MSI's work.

 

Thanks jsnetman - I was thinking of imaging the current RM server (to provide a way back during the lab phase) and then do the following:

build the new server, join domain, promote to DC, transfer roles away from RM server (FSMO + file, print, dhcp etc) and then start uninstalling the RM bits one by one. Is that how you did it (or would recommend doing it) ?

 

Moving from cc3 to vanilla is easier then starting over.... AD is there alreddy, just needs tidying up, you can just hack away at the rm components untill your pure vanilla. the GINA would be my first thing to get rid of.

 

It's the "hacking away" that I'm not keen on - if there was a documented / supported migration path I'd be happy to follow it, but what I don't want to end up with is a network with problems that crop up because of RM bits that are left over in AD that become a nightmare to troubleshoot.

 

In the absence of a documented migration path I'd probably be tempted to do a clean install - one that I know will work problem-free, rather than try and save the effort up-front only to spend twice as much time & effort troubleshooting issues later.

 

Are there tools you've come across that help with this or would this migration involve trawling around manually with ADSIedit to ensure all RM bits are cleaned up?

 

Thanks for your help!

[bossman]

We are in the process of proof of concept with CC4 having finished the commissioning ourselves, we are at phase 3 after completion of the build process to ascertain speeds and driver issues (Phase 1) and then configuring the PXE build process (Phase 2) and up to now all is well and running smoothly along with the backup process BE D2D2Tape which is running happily in the background.

 

So far we have no complaints and as we already have the cals for CC3 it was merely an upgrade for us and we bought our servers from Dell which saved us a packet and configured them ourselves which encapsulate 2 SANs one an SMS100 Hitachi for the staff and student work and the other a Sun 7110 for our VMs which all talk to one another quite happily.

 

We are so far well impressed with CC4 but are only in the proof of concept mode and not being used in anger, waiting for our SR2 to be early delivered so we can get on ready for September release.

 

Looking good so far

Edited May 10, 2010 by bossman