Apple Announces The Apple Silicon M1: The end of x86?

[Primus]

what, 2?

 

What percentage of owners of MacBook Air or MacBook Pro 13 do you think connect them up to anything more than a TV from time to time?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

You can only attach 1 external display in the Macbook Air and Macbook Pro! Massive show stopper.

 

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/11/11/how-apple-silicon-on-a-m1-mac-changes-monitor-support-and-what-you-can-connect

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]59975[/ATTACH]

 

It's not really a massive show stopper is it though?

[synaesthesia]

these days? I imagine more than you think. The amount of absolutely unsavvy staff we have that have been introduced to dual screens say it has changed the way they work and they now can't do without.

[Primus]

these days? I imagine more than you think. The amount of absolutely unsavvy staff we have that have been introduced to dual screens say it has changed the way they work and they now can't do without.

 

But they can use dual screens - the laptop itself plus an external?

 

My expectation is that you'd be looking at a single digit percentage of users who plug more than 1 external display into a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro 13.

[DalekSec]

Solution: Do you need more than 2 monitors? Yes - Wait a year for the new chips or buy an adapter. No - Go ahead and buy a M1

 

Remember this is a first gen product, they won't be perfect and have a few niggles. What apple have managed to do though with this first gen is nothing short of remarkable. Their x86 emulation alone is better than Microsoft have been trying for years! (Thanks to actual on chip hardware)

 

End of discussion

[FN-GM]

 

It's not really a massive show stopper is it though?

 

But they can use dual screens - the laptop itself plus an external?

 

My expectation is that you'd be looking at a single digit percentage of users who plug more than 1 external display into a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro 13.

 

Lots of companies have 2 large dual screens as standard. In addition many "power users" also have them. For example in all our officices people have a docked laptop and 2 x 24" monitors. I can't see them wanting to give up a second screen. So people won't order them for that reason, I consider that a show stopper.

Edited December 1, 2020 by FN-GM

[DalekSec]

Lots of companies have 2 large dual screens as standard. In addition many "power users" also have them. For example in all our officices people have a docked laptop and 2 x 24" monitors. I can't see them wanting to give up a second screen. So people won't order them for that reason, I consider that a show stopper.

 

I doubt any companies will be buying an M1 Macs currently, too many things that don't run natively on them along with plenty of unknowns. If i had to buy a new Mac for work i'd stick to an Intel one for now till the M series has matured.

 

Plus how many companies you see running Mac Minis as their main desktops? Majority are iMacs

[FN-GM]

If i had to buy a new Mac for work i'd stick to an Intel one for now till the M series has matured.

 

This is the point I am making. It's just not ready yet.

 

One day though.

[Primus]

Lots of companies have 2 large dual screens as standard. In addition many "power users" also have them. For example in all our officices people have a docked laptop and 2 x 24" monitors. I can't see them wanting to give up a second screen. So people won't order them for that reason, I consider that a show stopper.

 

What percentage of buyers of MacBook Air or Macbook Pro 13" use 2 external displays? You're talking about an environment these laptops aren't really aimed at, in addition they do support multiple external displays you just need the adaptors.

 

Apple will know their market, they will know how few people this will affect. Were you buying MacBook Air or MacBook 13 previously?

Edited December 1, 2020 by Primus

[Davit2005]

There is talk about eGPU support not being there at the moment on the M1 powered devices and there were also reports of some USB 2.0 devices not working such as the Blue Yeti USB mic.

 

I'm still considering a M1 based MAC Mini though, I only do basic Video edits on Premier Pro or more lately Davinci Resolve. I'd like to go Linux but a few of my paid for apps for Music are not available. From what I have seen in reviews the M1 chip is very good anyway for Video editing but the reviews are mixed with Pros and Cons depending on what sort of editing you need to do.

 

2 external displays for Video editing and other design applications is very popular. I can see the MAC Book Pro be used for Video editing because of its power and practicality against the MAC mini M1 so I can see this being a problem. And on top of that you have limited Windows OS support either for Bootcamp or virtualization because it is an Arm chip.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Davit2005

[FN-GM]

What percentage of buyers of MacBook Air or Macbook Pro 13" use 2 external displays?

 

I honestly couldn't tell you. In business its not uncommon. I have seen it quite frequently.

 

Apple will know their market

 

Like every company they make mistakes.

 

 

Were you buying MacBook Air or MacBook 13 previously?

 

Yes.

[Norphy]

This is the point I am making. It's just not ready yet.

 

One day though.

 

Not ready for everyone? Clearly. Not ready? Debatable. There are plenty of people who never attach external screens to laptops, or for whom one screen will be enough. It’s an annoying limitation, for sure, but clearly not enough of a a showstopper to stop Apple from doing it.

 

Anyway, early adopters always end up getting the sharp end of the stick and Apple products are no exception. First gen MacBook Air? Stupid port placement and 1.8” HDD. First gen Intel MacBooks and iMacs? Core CPUs, no x64 support. First iPod? Mac and FireWire only. First iPhone? No app support, no copy and paste, no MMS. Apple Silicon powered computers will get there, and most likely quickly too.

[FN-GM]

Not ready?

 

Sorry I meant to say "Just not there yet".

 

Thanks

[Arthur]

Adobe Photoshop ships on Macs with Apple Silicon: Gains speedier selections, filters and performance boosts

 

I am thrilled to announce that today we are releasing the first version of Photoshop to run natively on Macs with the new M1 chip. Our internal tests show that Photoshop delivers significant performance gains across the application for customers using these latest Macs.

 

Additionally, a new Super Resolution feature is now available in the Adobe Camera Raw plugin. This feature uses pioneering machine learning technology to boost the resolution of an image with one click, producing higher quality results than ever before.

 

Photoshop on Macs with M1

Starting today, Photoshop runs natively on Macs powered by the M1 chip and takes advantage of the performance improvements built into this new architecture. Our internal tests show a wide range of features running an average of 1.5X the speed of similarly configured previous generation systems. Our tests covered a broad scope of activities, including opening and saving files, running filters, and compute-heavy operations like Content-Aware Fill and Select Subject, which all feel noticeably faster. Our early benchmarking also shows that some operations are substantially faster with the new chip.

 

These great performance improvements are just the beginning, and we will continue to work together with Apple to further optimize performance over time. We think our customers using these new Macs will love the difference, too. Don’t blink. You might miss the splash screen launching…

[Sheridan]

Speaking as an 2018 i3 Mac Mini owner I recently upgraded to the M1 Mini, and I have to say, I wasn't impressed. In all day to day usage (browsing, watching video, light photo work, file storage etc - typical home use) the M1 was no faster in any way, and I saw the beachball more often than on my old i3 - in fact I used the Force Quit more in the brief M1 ownership than in the previous year of i3 ownership!

 

In the end the M1 went back, the bluetooth problems are still not resolved (as of 11.2.3) so I just gave up - even using a wired keyboard and mouse I was genuinely underwhelmed, and I was expecting a revelation - obviously I fell for the hype lol!

 

I'm neither a fanboy, nor a hater, I like and dislike a lot of elements of both Windows and Macs, I just really like the Mini as a home PC, so I was really quite disappointed - I watched a lot of the videos on youtube and to be honest, I never saw anything like the performance they were claiming, perhaps if I'd been doing more intensive work it would have shone , but I didn't see it, as it took longer to open apps sometimes than my old i3

[flyinghaggis]

Speaking as an 2018 i3 Mac Mini owner I recently upgraded to the M1 Mini, and I have to say, I wasn't impressed. In all day to day usage (browsing, watching video, light photo work, file storage etc - typical home use) the M1 was no faster in any way, and I saw the beachball more often than on my old i3 - in fact I used the Force Quit more in the brief M1 ownership than in the previous year of i3 ownership!

 

In the end the M1 went back, the bluetooth problems are still not resolved (as of 11.2.3) so I just gave up - even using a wired keyboard and mouse I was genuinely underwhelmed, and I was expecting a revelation - obviously I fell for the hype lol!

 

I'm neither a fanboy, nor a hater, I like and dislike a lot of elements of both Windows and Macs, I just really like the Mini as a home PC, so I was really quite disappointed - I watched a lot of the videos on youtube and to be honest, I never saw anything like the performance they were claiming, perhaps if I'd been doing more intensive work it would have shone , but I didn't see it, as it took longer to open apps sometimes than my old i3

 

I have a Windows desktop and a Mac laptop. I'm generally happy to use whicever OS is better suited to the purpose. Most of my workflow tends to be in a web browser these days anyway!

 

Interesting to hear your thoughts as looking at the benchmarks (Geekbench, Cinebench, Adobe, etc) by all accounts the M1 is the fastest single core chip on the market and can also match most of the 6/8 core AMD/Intel mobile processors in multi-core whilst using a fraction of the power. All the reviews and coverage I've see basically implied it was the end of x86 in the laptop / AIO market!

 

Sounds like Apple have a few bugs to iron out and some compatability issues to resolve though.

[DalekSec]

Thing to remember is the M1 is still a first gen product, there is going to be issues. Such as the bluetooth and having to force quit.

 

I've always tended to stay away from the first gen of anything, then when 2nd gen comes along they've fixed a bunch of the issues and easier to get along with! Wish i could afford a new mac, i sold mine to fund a new one but have since been turfed out and looking for a place to rent! Mac fund is now deposit fund I miss my mac now....

[Roberto]

Speaking as an 2018 i3 Mac Mini owner I recently upgraded to the M1 Mini, and I have to say, I wasn't impressed. In all day to day usage (browsing, watching video, light photo work, file storage etc - typical home use) the M1 was no faster in any way, and I saw the beachball more often than on my old i3 - in fact I used the Force Quit more in the brief M1 ownership than in the previous year of i3 ownership!

 

In the end the M1 went back, the bluetooth problems are still not resolved (as of 11.2.3) so I just gave up - even using a wired keyboard and mouse I was genuinely underwhelmed, and I was expecting a revelation - obviously I fell for the hype lol!

 

I'm neither a fanboy, nor a hater, I like and dislike a lot of elements of both Windows and Macs, I just really like the Mini as a home PC, so I was really quite disappointed - I watched a lot of the videos on youtube and to be honest, I never saw anything like the performance they were claiming, perhaps if I'd been doing more intensive work it would have shone , but I didn't see it, as it took longer to open apps sometimes than my old i3

 

That’s strange - not had that experience myself. Not doubting your experience, just not seen it myself. I do think some apps that have not yet been converted to work natively on the M1 will struggle and not perform as well. Perhaps you have a lot of these apps in your workflow, where I definitely do not.

[Sheridan]

That’s strange - not had that experience myself. Not doubting your experience, just not seen it myself. I do think some apps that have not yet been converted to work natively on the M1 will struggle and not perform as well. Perhaps you have a lot of these apps in your workflow, where I definitely do not.

 

There was a definite lag in opening Rosetta based apps, but usually just the first run. Otherwise I found the apps to open at the same speed as my older mini.

 

Like I said it may be the way I work but I’m starting to look at some of the those YouTube videos with a much more sceptical eye!

 

If I’d never had a mini before I would have probably never thought anything of it, but the experience I had certainly wasn’t the revelation it’s been pushed as, both by apple and the YouTube lot.

[Arthur]

VMware has no plans to support Windows 10 on M1 Macs -- Windows is second priority behind Linux

 

Running Windows 10 on M1 systems is possible thanks to the latest version of Parallels for Mac, but this is far from being the only virtualization software available -- people have been asking for some time what to expect from VMware Fusion. Now the company has revealed details of what to come; and while it's great news for Linux fans, it's not so great for Windows users.

 

VMware product line manager Michael Roy has penned a lengthy blog post in which he reveals that "running x86 operating systems on Apple silicon is not something we are planning to deliver with this project". One of the reasons he gives for this is his personal belief that "this platform will be one to more rapidly introduce new experiences at the expense of cutting away from the past. Where we're headed is anyone's guess, but I am confident the direction we're moving isn't backwards".

 

But this is not the reason for VMware taking the position that " Windows is second priority behind Linux". Writing about the licensing terms for Windows on ARM, Roy says:

 

Of course, users are expecting to run Windows in a virtual machine, much like we’ve been used to for many years now. With Windows on ARM however, this presents a unique situation, particularly as it relates to Licensing.

 

The Insider Preview program says: "To install Windows 10 Insider Preview Builds, you must be running a licensed version of Windows 10 on your device." And as far as we are aware, there is no way to buy a Windows 10 ARM license for a Mac with Apple silicon. There have been plenty of discussions on the topic from users and the media, and from the Insider Download Page, it reads:

 

With Windows 10 on ARM Insider Preview builds, you can create 64-bit ARM (ARM64) VMs in Hyper-V on Windows 10 ARM-based PCs. Creating ARM64 VMs is not supported on x64 hardware.

 

ARM64 VMs are only supported on devices that meet the prerequisites:

 

• Windows 10 ARM-based PCs with a Microsoft SQ1, Microsoft SQ2, Qualcomm Snapdragon 8cx, or Qualcomm Snapdragon 850 processor
  
• Windows 10 Pro or Enterprise, build 19559 or newer
  
• Hyper-V enabled (instructions)
  

 

You can see it doesn’t say anything about Apple silicon. We have reached out to Microsoft for comment and clarification on the matter.

 

For the time being, our work has been focused on Linux guest operating systems, and we’re confident that if Microsoft offers Windows on Arm licenses more broadly, we’ll be ready to officially support it.

 

The news for Linux users is great, however. Roy show his M1 MacBook Air running Fedora 34 and Ubuntu 21.04 simultaneously while hardly breaking a sweat. And it's a situation that is only going to get better; VMware says that it is "laser focused on making Arm Linux VMs on Apple silicon a delight to use".

[Patrick]

Currently using an 2012 MacBook Air for work. I travel to a lot of different sites and the light portability of it is nice. Mostly everything I do is cloud based and I remote into servers using it so it doesn't get stressed much. Thinking of an upgrade and the M1 Air is looking pretty good. Power increase would be nice and the battery life looks good...But my 2012 model is serving me pretty well really...Decisions decisions...

[FN-GM]

I quite like the new iMac. Nice nod to the past with all the colours.

 

I was speaking to someone last week who has an M1 Macbook Air. They previously had a 2017 Macbook Pro. He is very pleased with the battery life.

[tg12]

I saw the new iMacs in person briefly last week. Colours look great, the design is pretty nifty, and yes, everything I've seen so far about the M1 suggests that they're rather good machines!

[2ilent8cho]

I saw the new iMacs in person briefly last week. Colours look great, the design is pretty nifty, and yes, everything I've seen so far about the M1 suggests that they're rather good machines!

 

I saw the new iMac's in Currys last week, they look much better in real life than in the photos, but I still don't like the design without an Apple logo on the chin in the centre, if they had just done that I would have been happy.

 

If I were getting a new Mac desktop I would likely get a Mini anyway, but I've been very happy with my M1 13" Pro I got last year, still find it weird playing something like Cities Skylines or 7 Days to Die which would usually send laptop fans loopy and its its practically silent, and the battery does not drain at an alarming rate.

[FN-GM]

I saw the new iMacs in person briefly last week. Colours look great, the design is pretty nifty, and yes, everything I've seen so far about the M1 suggests that they're rather good machines!

 

One thing I did find strange is that the Apple logo is now missing from the front. I think it would look good with the same shade they use on the back.

[tg12]

Agreed on the lack of Apple logo, the front looks very plain without it!

 

If I were getting a new Mac desktop I would likely get a Mini anyway, but I've been very happy with my M1 13" Pro I got last year, still find it weird playing something like Cities Skylines or 7 Days to Die which would usually send laptop fans loopy and its its practically silent, and the battery does not drain at an alarming rate.

 

Ok, that's seriously impressive! I've got the 16" MBP (one of my last splashes out with my employee discount!) and fans go mental on that playing games, not even heavy ones at that. Just activating the discrete AMD GPU and putting some load on it is enough.