Feedback on our 1:1 scheme - iPads over Laptops?

[maxrebo]

Hi,

I'm wondering if people could give me some feedback on the 1:1 scheme that we will be enteringin to soon.

So SLT have suggested (and mostly decided) that they would like to go down the iPad route - I'm not totally opposed to this but being a Microsoft school with large use of Office and Team (and slowly building up use of O365) -

I have a few concerns about using iPads over laptops - firstly, general use such as typing up homework and can they do all they want an iPad that they can do in school or on a Windows device.

 

I see a lot of schools have gone down the iPad route, so I'm sure there is a lot of benefit to choosing this device, I just want to be sure we make the right choice!.

Any feedback would be really helpful.

Thanks

[paulkerton]

So SLT have suggested (and mostly decided) that they would like to go down the iPad route

With any suggestion from SLT, for whatever platform they suggest. The simple question is

 

Why?

 

Why do they think iPad over anything else? What kind of iPad? What tools? What features? Keyboards too? Apple pencils? Gen 1 or Gen 2?

 

Lots of questions to be asked, before making a presumption of device on their behalf.

 

I would suggest that the answers you get back for iPad might be "Look, shiny shiny aluminium..." before any practical reason.

[3s-gtech]

Agreed. Same goes for a Windows laptop, Mac or Chromebook. What do they want to achieve with it? If it's something like - move to digital work submission to reduce paperwork and increase productivity, great - but then if the devices aren't spec'd with keyboards, not great!

[2ilent8cho]

We have 1:1 iPads with Year 7,8,9,10,11 and use Office 365, Teams and stuff really well. We did before iPads early last decade have 1:1 Windows devices for years 9,10 and 11. I would choose iPads every time when going 1:1 with kids, Windows laptops will just cause you pain on that scale with that kind of deployment. Software updates and App deployment will be easier on iOS with the right MDM (we use JAMF), and will be easier for the users to self update, and its also extremely unlikely you will have malware and viruses to deal with or the pain of Windows doing something weird which it often likes to.

 

From a hardware point of view you will likely end up with lots of keys missing, broken trackpads and batteries life starting to degrade after a few years, iPads? Battery life will likely still be good at 5 years and only thing that generally breaks is the screen if dropped badly. We had some Microsoft Surfaces that 6 teachers had, just the basic ones, 2 years later we swapped them for MacBook Airs, why? The batteries on the surfaces became garbage after 2 years barely lasting 1 hour. I cannot stress enough how much of an advantage the battery life will be on the iPad compared to a Windows device you would get in that price range.

 

In the classroom the iPads are always on, light, and very portable. I would not worry about them not having a physical keyboard, you will find kids are very use to typing on virtual keyboards , its us older ones who cling onto the physical one because its what we grew up using. I don't actually have a problem typing in word on a physical keyboard I've done that lots.

 

So long as you get your setup done right from the beginning , like using the an in house App Store (JAMF Self Service for example) so they only gets apps you approve and other parts restricted as need everything is a breeze. Just have procedures in place for if an iPad gets broken, for example we keep 10 hot swaps. So student breaks a screen we swap it with a spare, since all data is in Office 365 they just login to new one while we repair there existing one. We buy the screens and repair our selves, typically around 2 screens a week out of 1000 iPads.

 

Then you have other cool things that can happen, we have an Apple TV connected to every screen in each class room, kids can AirPlay to them for example when doing a presentation in English.

[maxrebo]

We have 1:1 iPads with Year 7,8,9,10,11 and use Office 365, Teams and stuff really well. We did before iPads early last decade have 1:1 Windows devices for years 9,10 and 11. I would choose iPads every time when going 1:1 with kids, Windows laptops will just cause you pain on that scale with that kind of deployment. Software updates and App deployment will be easier on iOS with the right MDM (we use JAMF), and will be easier for the users to self update, and its also extremely unlikely you will have malware and viruses to deal with or the pain of Windows doing something weird which it often likes to.

 

From a hardware point of view you will likely end up with lots of keys missing, broken trackpads and batteries life starting to degrade after a few years, iPads? Battery life will likely still be good at 5 years and only thing that generally breaks is the screen if dropped badly. We had some Microsoft Surfaces that 6 teachers had, just the basic ones, 2 years later we swapped them for MacBook Airs, why? The batteries on the surfaces became garbage after 2 years barely lasting 1 hour. I cannot stress enough how much of an advantage the battery life will be on the iPad compared to a Windows device you would get in that price range.

 

In the classroom the iPads are always on, light, and very portable. I would not worry about them not having a physical keyboard, you will find kids are very use to typing on virtual keyboards , its us older ones who cling onto the physical one because its what we grew up using. I don't actually have a problem typing in word on a physical keyboard I've done that lots.

 

So long as you get your setup done right from the beginning , like using the an in house App Store (JAMF Self Service for example) so they only gets apps you approve and other parts restricted as need everything is a breeze. Just have procedures in place for if an iPad gets broken, for example we keep 10 hot swaps. So student breaks a screen we swap it with a spare, since all data is in Office 365 they just login to new one while we repair there existing one. We buy the screens and repair our selves, typically around 2 screens a week out of 1000 iPads.

 

Then you have other cool things that can happen, we have an Apple TV connected to every screen in each class room, kids can AirPlay to them for example when doing a presentation in English.

 

 

Thank you for your feedback - With regards to managing them, Did you have any issues with the parents not happy that they don't have any control what's installed on the device?, and that they cant install any apps whilst at home? (seeing as they're the ones paying for them?)

[mavhc]

You'd need a systematic review of all software in use, and whether it's available on iOS.

 

You'd need great wifi, and to spend money on an MDM

 

You'd need to buy all your apps again

 

You'd be losing advanced monitoring facilities as iOS is so locked down, same with filtering.

 

There's still no GPS on ipads unless you pay for cellular too iirc, and you can't force location services on to track them.

 

DEP means they're half useless if stolen, more advanced knowledge required to hack them then.

 

You get about 6 years of OS updates.

 

Whatever you do don't buy them all at once, start with the youngest year, roll it out, if it works after 1 year, repeat with the new youngest year, then when they leave in 5 years sell it to them for £80 or something

 

Look into running Windows in VMs on a server on site/in cloud for those times you still need that one thing.

 

iOS isn't going to work for some subjects anyway, programming, using science equipment, etc, so make sure everyone's aware of that

 

 

Also check the scientific literature for results, eg https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264464463_iPad_Scotland_Evaluation

Edited October 12, 2020 by mavhc

[2ilent8cho]

Thank you for your feedback - With regards to managing them, Did you have any issues with the parents not happy that they don't have any control what's installed on the device?, and that they cant install any apps whilst at home? (seeing as they're the ones paying for them?)

 

The school own and bought our iPads not the parents, buying 1 year at a time since 2013. We do allow games we have pre-approved for use at home, lunch and break, but if the kids mis-uses the iPad (like playing games in lessons) we have a smart group that removes them from the device as punishment.

 

You can do location based rules with JAMF based on local IP if you wanted so apps become blocked or unblocked automatically depending on the Network it is connected to. You can also use something called iBeacons which broadcast a code via bluetooth and if the iPads see this they know to do something such as block the camera, and these cost just a few ££ on eBay.

 

We have not looked into it much yet, but there is now a Jamf Parent app which the parents install on their iPhone and they can restrict the iPad more or less at home (You define the hours the parents can have control in the JAMF settings). iOS also has basic content filtering built in which will catch most adult websites should they try to access that kind of content on unfiltered home connection.

 

If you wanted to allow more freedom at home you could put apps like Facebook , Instagram , Netflix in the in house App Store , block these when the device detects it is at school, and only allow them at home if the parent has given consent for those type of apps by putting the device into say a group that allows them. The managed Apple IDs for students (which supports Office 365 login) does not allow purchasing of even free apps, so they are forced to use the in house App Store, so long as you restrict modifying account settings or the kids will logout of their school Apple ID and then login with a personal if you don't.

[edmokeski]

We're about six years in to a 1:1 program with iPads, now. We went down the G Suite path, as back when we were deciding, the MS apps were deeply unfriendly to any mixed economy, and MS Classroom was hopeless. I understand that landscape has improved quite a bit, now.

I agree that a tablet device has some drawbacks compared to a traditional laptop(-like) device, but I think the pro's still significantly outweigh the con's. The #1 question that needs to be asked, as a few others above have said, is "Why?" Why are you going 1:1? What do you hope to achieve? How will X device help you achieve it? We found that tablets just offered tremendously more flexibility for content creation, and even for some activities like formative assessment (Draw a graph of blah much easier on a touchscreen). They were also much more simple for users. SLT were very keen to NOT compel staff to use devices, so we knew that if they weren't dead easy, they were going in a drawer. By focusing on students creating content, rather than staff creating and students consuming, we've allayed some of the fears that a population of quite skeptical teachers had around how much extra time was going to get sucked up by tech. Some of them even now admit that it saves them time!

Laptops and Chromebooks are definitely better for long-form typing, like typing up a big research paper. But how much of students' use is that going to be? Students still have to handwrite exams. One of the #1 things we had to reassure teachers and parents of when we went 1:1 was that we weren't going to start typing everything and neglect to prepare students for hand writing their exams.

That said, we also had to convince SLT that they couldn't immediately throw all of our Windows machines into a skip. Teachers do a lot more long-form writing and have much better use cases for traditional computers. And certain subjects still needed ICT suites - particularly comp sci, but also e.g. DT (if anybody's got an iOS replacement for 2D Design that doesn't require students to sign up for their own accounts (looking at you, Autodesk ), I'm all ears!) and others at certain times of the year. Plus, teachers have often found that they want to multi-screen while teaching, presenting from the classroom computer while using their iPad to administer formative assessments, keep students on task with Apple Classroom, etc., etc..

On a more basic level, the battery life and always-on nature of tablets makes a huge difference. It allows them to become just another tool in the classroom. We used to have trolleys of laptops that never got used, b/c the time you had to invest in getting your lesson going on them meant you wanted to use them for the whole lesson if you were going to bother at all. Tablets you can take out, user for one activity, put away again. They don't get in the way, they don't take over, they just expand the possibilities. And the lack of moving parts, combined with a good case, does a lot for durability.

The #1 thing I encourage you and your SLT to do before spending any money is research -- visit schools that have done it, ask about their motivations, their original goals, and how their experience has lived up to their expectations. Apple Distinguished Schools and Apple Regional Training Centres are generally very happy to host a visit (OK, Covid, so maybe tricky right now), and ditto Google Reference Schools. Am sure if those two have programs, there must be an MS equivalent as well.

Re: pressure from parents for allowing personal use of hte devices, this is why we opted to lease devices and lend them to students (and hide the cost in our tuition fees) rather than BYOD, make a device part of "uniform," or even put a separate line item on their bill for it. It means they're school iPads, not iPads used for school, and it makes a surprisingly significant psychological difference. We've had very little pushback on this. Pushback has more been from parents who e.g. are afraid to take the devices away from kids at bed time.

Anyway, I know that's long, but hopefully there's something helpful in there. Good luck!

 

ps - I know you're MS so not probably giving much thought to Chromebooks, but I still think this is a good article to read when thinking about a 1:1 program: The Best Chromebook is... an iPad.

[mavhc]

Need to look at places where deployment has failed as well, California for a start.

 

Chromebooks seem like a much better idea, also zero config, also cheap, but run Chrome and Linux and Android apps. And are designed to have proper logins. But mostly they have a keyboard, who's typing entire essays without a keyboard?

[paulkerton]

ps - I know you're MS so not probably giving much thought to Chromebooks, but I still think this is a good article to read when thinking about a 1:1 program: The Best Chromebook is... an iPad.

 

I couldn't fundamentally disagree more with this article. That is a huge pile of bum gravy that's full of opinions rather than taking the actual facts at hand.

Chromebooks have equal or better battery life. They come in more form factors to suit the occasion as appropriate. Tablet, 360 degree hinges. Touch screens or not. They have actual keyboards and proper mouse support (not some bodged accessibility option that needs to be configured, and a giant circular pointer), which despite some suggestions, are still crucial skills children need to have now, and in the next 10 to 20 years. Sometimes they keyboards are detchable too! You can get devices that support pens that don't require charging and/or pairing one pen to one to their devices and cost between half and a third as much. iPads are far, far less durable, have a much higher repair cost, have far less longevity (8 years of support with a Chromebook compared to 4-5 if you're lucky on an iPad) and they cost significantly more for a comparable device with comparable features. They have more apps, sure, but quantity is not quantity. More and more EdTech software development is moving to web based tools on Chromebook first and foremost too as there are more Chromebooks in the US EDU space now than iPad or Windows combined. For example. Book Creator. Once only available on iPad shifted their entire market and now web based and Chrome first with the iPad app catching up behind. Chromebooks run Android apps, web based apps, Linux apps, and support for Windows applications is in the works in partnership with Parallels.

 

And let's not forget how you charge your £89 Apple Pencil on the Education focused iPads, as they only support 1st Gen Apple Pencils.

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by paulkerton

[keyboards]

I'd go chromebooks, don't understand this, how much work can you really do on an Ipad?

[jthompson]

Try to keep your platform choices as device-agnostic as possible (so stick with G Suite and/or M365 as much as possible and try to avoid anyone going too far off piste with their app choices). That way, the school isn't snookered if it decides against a particular type of device after a year.

 

I'm sure some will argue that it's not worth getting iPads unless you go full tilt at the Apple ecosystem, but that's perhaps not wise if the school is still new to it.

[Brimstone]

I couldn't fundamentally disagree more with this article. That is a huge pile of bum gravy that's full of opinions rather than taking the actual facts at hand.

Chromebooks have equal or better battery life. They come in more form factors to suit the occasion as appropriate. Tablet, 360 degree hinges. Touch screens or not. They have actual keyboards and proper mouse support (not some bodged accessibility option that needs to be configured, and a giant circular pointer), which despite some suggestions, are still crucial skills children need to have now, and in the next 10 to 20 years. Sometimes they keyboards are detchable too! You can get devices that support pens that don't require charging and/or pairing one pen to one to their devices and cost between half and a third as much. iPads are far, far less durable, have a much higher repair cost, have far less longevity (8 years of support with a Chromebook compared to 4-5 if you're lucky on an iPad) and they cost significantly more for a comparable device with comparable features. They have more apps, sure, but quantity is not quantity. More and more EdTech software development is moving to web based tools on Chromebook first and foremost too as there are more Chromebooks in the US EDU space now than iPad or Windows combined. For example. Book Creator. Once only available on iPad shifted their entire market and now web based and Chrome first with the iPad app catching up behind. Chromebooks run Android apps, web based apps, Linux apps, and support for Windows applications is in the works in partnership with Parallels.

 

And let's not forget how you charge your £89 Apple Pencil on the Education focused iPads, as they only support 1st Gen Apple Pencils.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]59389[/ATTACH]

Lets get our facts right please...

 

The latest iPads all the way back to the iPad Air 3 are supported by a Logitech Crayon at £44.00, no Apple Pencil required

https://www.logitech.com/en-gb/products/education/ipad-solutions/crayon.914-000046.html

 

Book Creator for iOS is as up to date as the web version

 

That article whilst a bit out of date is thorougly true, I've just switched a school to iPad from 400 x Chromebooks which were 3 years old and worth less than £150.00. As for the typing arguement are we in 2020 or 1920? Kids do not need keyboards, tell that to 2 Yr6 students who can type at 120 words a minute on their iPads.

[3s-gtech]

Typing speed is one aspect. Another is that with the virtual keyboard open screen space is much more limited, adding special characters for equations etc is slower, and it loses some overall flexibility. Keyboards aren’t an essential of course, but they strike as being very useful. Lots of careers where using a KBM is preferable e.g. engineering, anything with spreadsheets and large documents, programming and design, etc. Giving them the ability to use as many tools as possible will help.

[DGardiner]

Lets get our facts right please...

 

The latest iPads all the way back to the iPad Air 3 are supported by a Logitech Crayon at £44.00, no Apple Pencil required

https://www.logitech.com/en-gb/products/education/ipad-solutions/crayon.914-000046.html

 

Book Creator for iOS is as up to date as the web version

 

That article whilst a bit out of date is thorougly true, I've just switched a school to iPad from 400 x Chromebooks which were 3 years old and worth less than £150.00. As for the typing arguement are we in 2020 or 1920? Kids do not need keyboards, tell that to 2 Yr6 students who can type at 120 words a minute on their iPads.

 

A bit defensive here... i have both worlds in similar quantities.

 

I still hate that an onscreen keyboard takes up half the screen on either platform.

 

That said the apple pencil has no competitor really - its not a dumb capacitive stylus

[mavhc]

Surely there's a sanely priced bluetooth keyboard option

[Jamman960]

Surely there's a sanely priced bluetooth keyboard option

 

We tend to buy £15 bluetooth keyboards from amazon for our iPads - the Anker ones were fantastic and had builtin usb chargeble batteries but they seem to have gone. The ones we've had aren't particularly durable though with keys falling off quickly and not going back on easily or being lost(parts snap off entirely)

 

iPads have been a great success here, if you'd suggested anything apple to me 5 years ago I'd have said not a chance but but essentially the simplicity of them for staff and students removes many barriers IMO and allows the learning to take focus rather than the tech. I'll read and post something more constructive later... rushing to get a golden image prepared for our IT suite at the moment.

[edmokeski]

Well, as per paulkerton's response above, this can easily take on the lovely tones of the PC/Mac flamewars of yesteryear. Yes, the article's getting slightly dated. Obviously your mileage may vary depending on your priorities. Obviously also it's easy to pick out options on either platform that are impractical or expensive. (I shudder to think about handing out styluses to students -- the cost in lost ones alone, even at half the cost of a Logitech Crayon or HP AcitvePen.) Yes, e.g. Book Creator has gone web-based, but the web version has also introduced subscriptions (like many apps that have gone to web) instead of one-off app purchase, so in BC's case for us that'd be one-off 5k vs recurring 12k. Fab that a Chromebook can run Linux, but you're not buying them for the IT dept., so what's the practical use case? And for all arguments about keyboards, I refer you back to the simple question of "How much of what students actually do, that actually adds value to their learning, is long-form typing on a computer?" Plus, if you're desperate for keyboards, they make them in both wired and wireless form for iPads. We taught touch typing for a couple of years with a class set of lightning keyboards (until it became clear that it wasn't necessary, as the kids coming in had learned at primary), and some of our SEN students use keyboards regularly. Speaking of SEN, accessibility is another area where the iPad really excels.

The only other piece of advice I'd offer is to listen to your teachers. As much as you may prefer to support platform X or Y, if your teachers aren't on board you may as well set the money on fire. Some of the most painful deployments I've seen have resulted from IT and teachers butting heads. Be pedagogy-driven. I've seen countless deployments that weren't, and have achieved nothing but shiny shiny, and "oh it's great, I can do precisely the same thing I always did, but on this beautiful piece of glass," or "We wanted X but IT only let us have Y, so nobody bothers." Or my fav, "We wanted X and IT wanted Y. We got the X devices we wanted, but IT will only support us doing Y in emulation on them."

[paulkerton]

Lets get our facts right please...

 

The latest iPads all the way back to the iPad Air 3 are supported by a Logitech Crayon at £44.00, no Apple Pencil required

https://www.logitech.com/en-gb/products/education/ipad-solutions/crayon.914-000046.html

 

Facts: Bluetooth. Required to be connected 1:1 to a device. Hard to actually get hold of.

Book Creator for iOS is as up to date as the web version

 

Lead development platform? Not iOS

That article whilst a bit out of date is thorougly true, I've just switched a school to iPad from 400 x Chromebooks which were 3 years old and worth less than £150.00. As for the typing arguement are we in 2020 or 1920? Kids do not need keyboards, tell that to 2 Yr6 students who can type at 120 words a minute on their iPads.

120 words per minute on a virtual keyboard.... Sure. *sigh*

[paulkerton]

Yes, e.g. Book Creator has gone web-based, but the web version has also introduced subscriptions (like many apps that have gone to web) instead of one-off app purchase, so in BC's case for us that'd be one-off 5k vs recurring 12k.

 

You have a free tier of Book Creator on the web that offers everything the iPad version can offer. Let's not pretend that doesn't exist. And you've got a higher cost of device to cater for too. Huge amounts of extra accessories to purchase, and charge continually.

The fact that Book Creator Web can work on multiple platforms, any device in any location vs being locked to the one particular device.

 

Fab that a Chromebook can run Linux, but you're not buying them for the IT dept., so what's the practical use case?

 

But you are buying them for the IT department in mind, if your strategy is correct. If you're going 1:1 those devices need to work for IT students too.

All students should be coding up into KS3 and certainly those in KS4 and KS5 need access to coding platforms and offer them thousands of available apps, most for completely free, including tools like Inkscape, GIMP, Audacity, LMMS, OBS. Coding on real world platforms that people use day-to-day for older students. I want students getting into KS4 to be able to compile apps and use them on their devices. You can't use iOS for real world practical coding without jumping through hoops to do so. I note that you don't respond to the fact Windows app support is also coming to Chromebook, and Android apps are supposedly coming to Windows. Every tried coding an iOS app on iOS? You can't. You need Macs to do that.

 

And for all arguments about keyboards, I refer you back to the simple question of "How much of what students actually do, that actually adds value to their learning, is long-form typing on a computer?" Plus, if you're desperate for keyboards, they make them in both wired and wireless form for iPads. We taught touch typing for a couple of years with a class set of lightning keyboards (until it became clear that it wasn't necessary, as the kids coming in had learned at primary), and some of our SEN students use keyboards regularly.

 

But that's the point. You're paying more for an iPad without a keyboard or a stylus as you can buy a Chromebook, or Windows device that support both. iPad has it's place in specialist areas perhaps, but there is nothing iPad offers that can't be offered on Windows or Chromebook other than increased costs, increased difficulty in regards to managing the devices. As much as some of you want to dismiss keyboards and pointing devices as unneeded, why do Apple offer the magic keyboard at a starting price of £299 RRP if they're outdated or outmoded?

 

The answer is they aren't.

 

Speaking of SEN, accessibility is another area where the iPad really excels.

Again, Windows and Chromebook are also excellent with accessibility these days.

 

Don't go into any kind of acquistion thinking that your single platform of choice will offer everything, but to suggest iPad is better at being a Chromebook than a Chromebook is, or even a Windows device is, is laughable.

[Brimstone]

Facts: Bluetooth. Required to be connected 1:1 to a device. Hard to actually get hold of.

Facts: Logitech Crayons DO NOT use Bluetooth, they use NFC

Zero product research again then.....?

 

I'm not even going to comment on the what you said about coding using iOS as it's clear you've really no idea when it comes to iOS at all. Clearly thousands of teachers and students across the world have wasted their time using all the free resources created by Apple below to introduce teachers to coding on iOS.

 

I thought you were all for student transferable skills but clearly you are NOT

 

https://www.apple.com/uk/education/k12/teaching-code/

https://www.apple.com/uk/education/k12/teaching-code/#everyone-can-code

https://developer.apple.com/xcode/

 

I guess EU Code Week must be wrong as well...

 

https://codeweek.eu/view/140859/how-to-get-started-with-coding

Edited October 16, 2020 by Brimstone

[Zammo]

Lets get our facts right please...

 

The latest iPads all the way back to the iPad Air 3 are supported by a Logitech Crayon at £44.00, no Apple Pencil required

https://www.logitech.com/en-gb/products/education/ipad-solutions/crayon.914-000046.html

 

Book Creator for iOS is as up to date as the web version

 

That article whilst a bit out of date is thorougly true, I've just switched a school to iPad from 400 x Chromebooks which were 3 years old and worth less than £150.00. As for the typing arguement are we in 2020 or 1920? Kids do not need keyboards, tell that to 2 Yr6 students who can type at 120 words a minute on their iPads.

 

I'll be honest, 120 wpm seems... Unusually fast. I presume they are using keyboards?

[mavhc]

I thought you were all for student transferable skills but clearly you are NOT

 

https://www.apple.com/uk/education/k12/teaching-code/

https://www.apple.com/uk/education/k12/teaching-code/#everyone-can-code

https://developer.apple.com/xcode/

 

I guess EU Code Week must be wrong as well...

 

https://codeweek.eu/view/140859/how-to-get-started-with-coding

 

Anyone can code! Using the programming language that only people writing Apple apps use! Not exactly the most transferable skill.

 

Is xcode on iOS now then?

[Jamman960]

Anyone can code! Using the programming language that only people writing Apple apps use! Not exactly the most transferable skill.

 

Is xcode on iOS now then?

 

Everyone can code is accessible by a wide range of ages and produces quick results, sure it’s not going to turn someone into a master programmer but the skills learnt would be transferable - driving a lorry is different to driving a car, learning to drive a car first helps significantly.