Sims Server in Azure

[artfulmatt]

Hi,

 

Has anyone done this? If we had a VPN to Azure to extend our network into the cloud, has anyone any experience of the performance of the sims.net client installed locally and connecting to the DB in Azure? Does Solus work ok etc....?

 

Cheers,

Matt.

[paulkerton]

If you're going to all that effort, I would seriously investigate moving to a cloud MIS instead.

[artfulmatt]

If you're going to all that effort, I would seriously investigate moving to a cloud MIS instead.

 

Sims cloud is years away as yet (from a reliable system) and changing MIS systems with regards to reporting and data isn't something the school are up for doing. Otherwise I'd move away from SIMS completely lol

[supportman]

We moved and its so worth it. Sims is totally out of date now.

[artfulmatt]

We moved and its so worth it. Sims is totally out of date now.

 

Moved to which system?

 

Im convinced and most the data/admin teams hate sims too, very clunky and old design, and constant errors, but the upheaval of changing analysis reporting etc.....along with 3rd party apps relying on sims DB.

 

It'd be a big project, plus we are now in a trust and the other schools use sims too. So I imagine it'd need to be a trust level change.

[MatthewL]

Is your internet connection up to it? In theory should be no issues, I've never worked on a site with the data centre/server local to the LAN its always been remote and never caused an issue other than outages on connections.

[supportman]

Moved to which system?

 

Im convinced and most the data/admin teams hate sims too, very clunky and old design, and constant errors, but the upheaval of changing analysis reporting etc.....along with 3rd party apps relying on sims DB.

 

It'd be a big project, plus we are now in a trust and the other schools use sims too. So I imagine it'd need to be a trust level change.

 

Bromcom... its better in pretty much every way than Sims. Cloud based, constant updates, Teacher app, Room bookings, Parents evenings, Student app, PowerBi the list goes on... And best of all, no more solus or looking after sql servers!!

 

We migrated our system from Sims with no real issues over a couple of weeks in the summer. Training is very good with bromcom as well.

[Ditto]

I get that getting your local school, let alone MAT to sign up to a MIS migration can be tough, I'd try to get your head or business manager to at least listen to one or two providers - let the likes of Bromcom, Arbor, Cloud School do the sales pitch. From the OP, what is the motivation to extend the servers in to the cloud. Generally, IAAS is not going to give best value.

[artfulmatt]

Are many schools moving away from Sims these days?

[paulkerton]

Are many schools moving away from Sims these days?

Depends on the sector. MATs and Academies are more than LA supported schools.

SIMS still has a huge hold on the sector, but I'd say that is the natrual propensity for teachers to reject change, rather than a desire to keep using it.

[Ditto]

Certainly there are some, but whether it is going to accelerate or decline is up for debate. For real insight, have some fun reading through Bring more data: Expect MIS switching volumes to decline in 2019/20 - it's the best analysis of the MIS market you will find.

[Ditto]

Depends on the sector. MATs and Academies are more than LA supported schools.

SIMS still has a huge hold on the sector, but I'd say that is the natrual propensity for teachers to reject change, rather than a desire to keep using it.

 

Oh, I so agree with the change aversion syndrome!

[supportman]

Are many schools moving away from Sims these days?

Yep we did as soon as we saw Capita's latest financial results. Their debt is unmanageable so they are forced to halt all new investment and basically sell off anything profitable like their education division.

 

I don't understand this mindset of keeping a piece of software which is so outdated just because it used to be pretty much a monopoly. Even less so trying to shoehorn it into a cloud or hosted environment when it clearly isn't designed for that and never will be.

 

Having done the move I don't really see why we ever waited, sure there are issues with the new system but the migration took a couple of days in reality. The new system worked in parallel with Sims for a while for staff to get used to it.

 

Then we got rid of all our 3rd party bolt on products and saved a bunch of money as well! Win/Win

[HPlum78]

IaaS is not the way to consume the cloud, as already noted if its an absolute requirement move to a cloud based SaaS solution. If not keep it in your own DC's.

[Norphy]

The question has to be, what problem are you trying to solve by moving your SIMS server to an Azure VM? Yes, it would work; in principal it's no different to running it on your own local Hyper-V server and I'm sure most people on here will tell you that works well enough.

 

However, doing that turns running SIMS into a rather large ongoing, monthly, monetary cost. You'd have to pay for the VM itself (CPU, RAM and disk usage are all chargeable) and for the VPN tunnel back to your site, which is also chargeable. You're restricted by the the size of your internet connection and everything else going across that as well. If you don't want to host SIMS locally or if you want to offload supporting and updating SIMS onto someone else, looking at hosted SIMS might be a better option?

 

Or, as others have said, drop SIMS like a hot potato and use a proper SaaS provider instead.

[HPlum78]

@Norphy has used all the words that I did not have time to write, my views on leveraging the cloud can be found on here in other similar threads.

[psydii]

Just ran the azure vm calculator and the minimum cost of a SIMS server in Azure is about 220USD per month if you have already have an SQL server licence with hybrid benefit. If you need to licence SQL separately, then its 664USD per month.

 

(4 core, 28 GB Ram, 3 SSDs, 1Tb/month for SOLUS with 3yr commitment for a 70% discount)

[Davit2005]

SaaS would be a better solution. Just moving SIMS to the cloud is not going to do anything but increase complexity and will Capita and inevitably the company that takes over from Capita support it????

[psydii]

...will Capita and inevitably the company that takes over from Capita support it????

 

lol. Capita don't actually support SIMS running on SQL on Windows, so that's an accidental straw man.

 

 

If you don't have buy-in from SLT/T+L to move to an alternative MIS, moving it to Azure might make sense in the medium term to avoid having to refresh expensive on-prem hardware or purchase extended warranties.

[RootsSchImp]

I'd echo what other posters have said (I used to work on tenders for Bromcom so I've seen lots of schools go through the migration process). I think the mistake lots of schools make is they imagine other systems are as complex to learn and manage as SIMS so they assume switching will be really difficult. In reality Bromcom, Arbor, Pupil Asset are all a doddle to learn and there's none of the constant patching and sql nurdling that you have with sims. So schools are consistently surprised by how easy it is to switch.

 

I think OP is right that consistency of reporting is one of the big challenges and you will have to invest time replicating and/or improving what you do in this area - but what you save due to the convenience of a cloud system more than makes up for that IMO

[artfulmatt]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for comments, agree with what you all say. What I hadn't given much thought was if whoever takes over Sims from Capita, will they support sims VM in the cloud etc....Lots of unknowns at the moment.

 

We have used Xenapp and then moved to Remoteapp to allow access to all staff for many years now. Home access we have o365 2FA etc....so all tightened down and secure. But its fairly complex behind the scenes. It'd make sense to review everything considering 3rd party vendors like Edulink are also costing the school.

 

The other high schools in our trust are using Solus and sims client installed directly to staff laptops, and I believe the other are now looking at remoteapp. It'd make sense to look at this from a trust level, but like said, I need senior management to be onboard.

 

We are now at a point where our sims server could do with being replaced, and our session host servers are struggling with demand and no room for expansion. Now is the time to make a decision on which direction we'll go, before any investments are made.

 

Better start working my magic haha