What would you build...

[Grommit]

OK... say you had to build an entire site from scratch.....

 

What would you use ?

 

Cat 5e Cat6 to the workstations..? what fibre to the comms cabinets ?

 

What Servers?

 

SAN or NAS what size ?

 

What wireless management system Cisco, HP ?

[Michael]

Cat 5e Cat6 to the workstations..? what fibre to the comms cabinets ?

 

Cat5e is much cheaper and is certified up to 1Gbps, which should be plenty. I still run at 100Mbps at all my sites with only servers running at gigabit. Fibre is only necessary to link areas of the network which exceed 100 metres, otherwise save yourself some money!

 

What Servers?

 

I don't think what make of servers matters too much, as long as you use a company that's well known. It's the warranty and support if it all goes wrong which is more important. Ideally the server should have a specification that exceeds the requirements and not the other way around

 

SAN or NAS what size ?

 

Generally speaking NAS's are used for general file and or backup storage by end users, whereas SAN's are more commonly used for general file and or backup storage for servers. As for capacity, that really depends what volume of data you have to play with!

 

What wireless management system Cisco, HP ?

 

I generally use HP switches and access points. Although Cisco's are nice, they come with a hefty price tag. It depends what level of manageability you require.

[torledo]

if money were there i'd go cat6, but if the cost of instalation were to effect equipment choices elsewhere, i'd be happy with cat5e...

 

a new build should were possible be future proof at layer 1....and that's 10gbps capable fibre (OM3) and cat6 minimum. i'd insist on reduandant 10gbps fibre links from each cabinet back to the core.

 

x86 servers, i'd go for either ibm xseries or sun fire....ibm just edges it with their 1 and 2u boxes and they're phenomenally good value 5u rack convertible towers. I'd be happy with either a 2u or 5u ibm box, athough 2u would be my preference. blade servers require a little bit more thought, but i like the look of the sun blade kit...they even do sparc blades so you can mix and match with x86 blades if yo fancy dipping you're toes into ultrasparc.

 

for storage i'd probably choose one of the clariion's.

 

for wifi i'd go cisco.

[torledo]

the san or nas question is really about block vs file, high performance vs the flexibility of access using the file sharing protocols over ethernet albeit with the overhead of smb/cifs that comes with it.....having said, storage for many server applications can be stored on filers and accessed via the file sharing protocols by the servers themselves. Thinking of a NAS as simply a dedicated appliance replacing a windows or unix file server is what NAS used to be...and what it is at the low end today. In the midrange and high end they are using NAS devices in many ways as SAN devices except file I/O instead of block I/O....

 

using a high perfomance NAS fier to store oracle database instances for key line of business applications is a well known configuration. ofcourse for a solution like that the box needs to be sufficiently scalable.

 

i personally would have both NAS and SAN...multiprotocol is all the rage. With the right NAS box a lot of server storage problems can be answered beyond straightforward file sharing....storage for exchange and vmware for instance.

 

size will vary depending on the environment....sata is great for getting lot's of tb's cheaply, but i would use it primarily as an archive or disk staging medium.....SAS or FC should be primary storage and will consequently cost more per gb....but if the SATA secondary storage is doing it's job you won't need too many tb's of primary storage, shouldn't need more than a shelf of 300gb sas disks for primary storage carved up between general purpose file sharing and dedicated to your server applications. Not all server apps need to be on the SAN/NAS....some can stick with DAS.

Edited May 30, 2008 by torledo

[Tallwood_6]

I'd go Cat6a for a new install, expensive but future proof, will carry 10gbit over 100m.

[FN-GM]

Another vote for Cisco, they are expensive buy you get what you pay for. If you budget can stretch to cat 6 go for that if not use cat 5e. As for client machines I wouldn’t use anything less then duel core 1 - 2 gig of Ram. Most of our machines are now upto that standard. I wouldn’t use Vsta stick with XP, there isn’t much benefit for that kind of environment. I would also put things like cashless system on its own network / vlan as well. One last thing if you can go for gigabit on the whole network.

 

Z

Edited May 30, 2008 by FN-Greatermanchester

[john]

If I was goign from scratch and money was avaliable, it would be Fibre to all cabinets and it would be multiple runs to each not just a pair, I'd have 8 cores in each cabinet. CAT6 to the desktop, HP Servers, Netgear Switching and Ruckus Wifi Networking.

[localzuk]

If I was goign from scratch and money was avaliable, it would be Fibre to all cabinets and it would be multiple runs to each not just a pair, I'd have 8 cores in each cabinet. CAT6 to the desktop, HP Servers, Netgear Switching and Ruckus Wifi Networking.

 

Why pay for HP servers, multiple fibre runs etc... and then use netgear switches? That's like buying a lotus elise and then painting it with emulsion.

[john]

Because thats what I have now and it works very well for me and ticks all the boxes and had no problems and seems great. Netgear stuff is moving very high end and more Cisco and HP style (fine throw the arguement that they are copying etc) but they are listening and moving that way.

[Michael]

I think it's crazy so many of you are talking 10Gbps. Have you seen how much 10Gbps switches cost? I know of company that move terabytes of data around their network, but don't have 10Gbps.

 

Most servers would be hard pushed to fill a 1Gbps connection let alone a 10Gbps one!

[HodgeHi]

I might be looking into the netgear wifi management system when our new school is built.

 

the prosafe range.

 

Anyone seen and used this yet/

 

If so what's it like?

[FN-GM]

Myself i am not a Netgear fan, but i have herd good reviews about the managed WIFI.

[localzuk]

I think it's crazy so many of you are talking 10Gbps. Have you seen how much 10Gbps switches cost? I know of company that move terabytes of data around their network, but don't have 10Gbps.

 

Most servers would be hard pushed to fill a 1Gbps connection let alone a 10Gbps one!

 

The 10Gbps is future proofing. Sure, it is unlikely that the bandwidth would be used now, but who says that video won't be a massive part of your network in 3 - 5 years time?

 

Combine that with the apparent goal of the govt. to move to 1 computer per pupil, and you would soon end up with having many hundreds of machines connected to your servers at the same time. It isn't so crazy to implement 10Gbps at the core.

[FN-GM]

Exactly nobody knows what’s round the corner, especially in IT

[Michael]

The 10Gbps is future proofing. Sure, it is unlikely that the bandwidth would be used now, but who says that video won't be a massive part of your network in 3 - 5 years time?

 

Combine that with the apparent goal of the govt. to move to 1 computer per pupil, and you would soon end up with having many hundreds of machines connected to your servers at the same time. It isn't so crazy to implement 10Gbps at the core.

 

It would be cheaper then to simply adopt 1Gbps now and 10Gbps in 5 years time. It would work out much more cost effective. I don't know of any school or any company running 10Gbps. You have to weigh up future proofing against budget and I doubt very few schools would even have the budget for a theoretical 10Gbps link.

 

And as for 1 computer per child, that won't happen for a long time. There isn't enough public money and secondly, most schools don't even have the space, even with laptops. Although I am pro IT (what else would you expect ), I don't think IT is everything and many lessons and skills can be taught using more traditional methods.

 

How many schools do you know that have budgeted or plan to implement a 10Gbps backbone to their network?

[FN-GM]

And as for 1 computer per child, that won't happen for a long time.

 

We have nearly got to that stage ;-) Only around 15 machines sort of that.

[Michael]

So you're saying the curriculum supports IT to the point that one computer is needed per child? The machines are used every lesson 9am - 4pm?

[FN-GM]

They are used allot of the time. We had allot of money pumped into doing this a few week month. I think IT can be used to much its used allot here, the head is keen on the idea students getting work of a VLE etc...

 

Its handy though because if we need to take over a room for what ever reason there is a chance there is somewhere else to go

[Michael]

Absolutely, I think VLE's work really well forming online school communities. I'm sure the volume of machines keeps you busy

[HodgeHi]

what size classes do you have there?

 

we are a primary school and have some classes in the region of 30-35. We have a make-shift ICT Suite with just enough room to squeeze 25 machines in and we have a mobile laptop trolley with 15 in. So in ICT lessons once a week for each class we struggle to give a machine to each child let alone throughout the whole day.

[FN-GM]

The school have been using the same type of machine now for 2 years. (Not the same ones you get me though) and they have been very reliable touch wood. The only problem is the odd bit of vandalism.

[FN-GM]

what size classes do you have there?

 

we are a primary school and have some classes in the region of 30-35. We have a make-shift ICT Suite with just enough room to squeeze 25 machines in and we have a mobile laptop trolley with 15 in. So in ICT lessons once a week for each class we struggle to give a machine to each child let alone throughout the whole day.

 

the class sizes are 20 - 30 ish, we have around 600 students.

[john]

I think the Netgear Managed Wifi is a bit limited in scope and range of stuff, its there first step into the managed sector and fine they have partnered with Aruba on it but its still rather limited the kit but it depends how big your wanting to go and need to go I guess

 

As those at the conference saw, Ruckus via Net Ctrl is a good system and worth looking into hence why I said it in my ideal one as when im incharge and needing a wifi it will be them I call in.

[EduTech]

another Vote here.

 

As everyone who attended the conference will know this for people who were unable to attend Ruckus via Net ctrl seem very good.

 

what they were telling us is fabulous, been speaking to some of the guys there and there always up for setting up a demo in your school for you to test out for a timed agreement i understand.

 

I will be orginising a day for them to come down to birmingham, and then will get as many birmingham IT Techs/NM to come and have a listen. which is somthing i discussed with them.

 

Very good.

 

Net-Ctrl - Ruckus Wireless

 

Ruckus Wireless

 

James.

[torledo]

It would be cheaper then to simply adopt 1Gbps now and 10Gbps in 5 years time. It would work out much more cost effective. I don't know of any school or any company running 10Gbps. You have to weigh up future proofing against budget and I doubt very few schools would even have the budget for a theoretical 10Gbps link.

 

And as for 1 computer per child, that won't happen for a long time. There isn't enough public money and secondly, most schools don't even have the space, even with laptops. Although I am pro IT (what else would you expect ), I don't think IT is everything and many lessons and skills can be taught using more traditional methods.

 

How many schools do you know that have budgeted or plan to implement a 10Gbps backbone to their network?

 

very view orgs will be wiling to wait 5 years to implement 10gbps in part or in all....

 

with new switch purchases and equipment now 1gbps capable, it makes sense that if the endpoints are moving exclusively to 1gbps over the next 2-3 years then 10gbps uplinks be used to link back to the core. Only very specific server applications require 10gbps to the server, but for core uplinks i think 10gbps makes a great deal of sense....with some stackable switches now available with dual personality 1gbps sff or 10gbps x2 ports and at reasonable price, the cost issue is primarily one of the optical interfaces and NICs rather than the cost of the switches.

 

10gbps blades for some core switches are still quite expensive but again it's more like 18 months to 2 years where the price becomes affordable.