Extend Ethernet Beyond 100M?

[FN-GM]

Hello,

 

We have a little bit of a mess I have inherited. We have a copper connection between our core switch and a switch inside a shed at the back of the building. This connection is over 100M so in the middle of this the previous IT team installed a switch to repeat the signal. I want to get rid of the repeater switch. The core switch is POE capable. Is there any device that can power via POE that I can put in the middle of the run to repeat the signal please? Has anyone on here used something like this please? I don’t want anything that needs its own power source.

 

I have found this but it seems to be in the US only - https://www.amazon.com/GPOE-Extender-802-3at-Gigabit-Ethernet-Extender/dp/B0757XQ32V

 

Thanks.

 

[Michael]

I'm presuming there's a camera or something on the end of the cable run?

 

Depending on where it is, probably the only option would be a fibre run and then a media converter right at the end, but then you need power for the converter and the camera, if it accepts other power sources other than PoE?

 

Alternatively run fibre and place the switch at the end, rather than in the middle, but then you don't really solve anything. It's a tricky problem.

[FN-GM]

It’s a switch on the other end. (I attached a diagram on the original post). I can’t really lay cables without significant work involving digging up a lot of concrete!

 

There is no line of sight for a wireless link either.

[robyholmes]

Ideally replacing with fibre would be the best option, but you could look at something like this:

https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-flex/

 

Especially if the other end has a camera, wifi AP or some other POE device. I'm sure the distance will have some affect on the POE power you have at the end of the run however.

[steveg]

Do you need gigabit speeds, or is 100meg ok?

 

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cctv-transmission-receiving-accessories/1486882?cm_mmc=UK-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-CSS_UK_EN_Safety_%26_Security_%26_ESD_Control_%26_Clean_Room_Whoop-_-CCTV+Transmission+%26+Receiving+Accessories_Whoop-_-1486882&matchtype=&pla-337935569168&gclid=CjwKCAjw5vz2BRAtEiwAbcVIL1lLNQh_3VSM2hh6jHnMT_dm9uBaRqs7fJCfbLuFz9ROqsMTOX8xHRoCfW0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[FN-GM]

Ideally replacing with fibre would be the best option, but you could look at something like this:

https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-flex/

 

Especially if the other end has a camera, wifi AP or some other POE device. I'm sure the distance will have some affect on the POE power you have at the end of the run however.

 

I am trying to remove the switch so don’t really want to replace it with another. I can’t really install fibre either.

 

I don’t need POE at the other end as it’s connecting to another switch.

 

Thanks.

[FN-GM]

Do you need gigabit speeds, or is 100meg ok?

 

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cctv-transmission-receiving-accessories/1486882?cm_mmc=UK-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-CSS_UK_EN_Safety_%26_Security_%26_ESD_Control_%26_Clean_Room_Whoop-_-CCTV+Transmission+%26+Receiving+Accessories_Whoop-_-1486882&matchtype=&pla-337935569168&gclid=CjwKCAjw5vz2BRAtEiwAbcVIL1lLNQh_3VSM2hh6jHnMT_dm9uBaRqs7fJCfbLuFz9ROqsMTOX8xHRoCfW0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

Something like this but gig would be ideal!

[steveg]

https://eu.dlink.com/uk/en/products/dpe-302ge-2-port-gigabit-poe-extender

[Michael]

I guess if there's power going to the shed, there must be a duct. You could run fibre in it and it wouldn't suffer from interference, but logistically this could get complicated and expensive.

 

I suppose even if fibre is route a long way around, it doesn't matter. Even OM1 will do 1Gb/s up to 275M.

 

I'm guessing the existing Ethernet cable is running on a catenary wire?

[robyholmes]

I am trying to remove the switch so don’t really want to replace it with another. I can’t really install fibre either.

 

I don’t need POE at the other end as it’s connecting to another switch.

 

Thanks.

 

It is a switch but its self powered so you don't need to worry about power going off.

[FN-GM]

I guess if there's power going to the shed, there must be a duct. You could run fibre in it and it wouldn't suffer from interference, but logistically this could get complicated and expensive.

 

I suppose even if fibre is route a long way around, it doesn't matter. Even OM1 will do 1Gb/s up to 275M.

 

I'm guessing the existing Ethernet cable is running on a catenary wire?

 

The current cabling is in a very small water pipe, its tight in there so it will be difficult if not impossible to run another cable in. This would be my preferred solution.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

https://eu.dlink.com/uk/en/products/dpe-302ge-2-port-gigabit-poe-extender

 

Thanks - Just going to have a look.

[Michael]

Unless you cut the Ethernet and pull it through with fibre attached. It sounds like it's been pulled through MDPE which is typically 25mm thick in most cases.

[FN-GM]

Unless you cut the Ethernet and pull it through with fibre attached. It sounds like it's been pulled through MDPE which is typically 25mm thick in most cases.

 

I did think that. Although I am scared of getting it stuck. We have someone coming to look later in the week so hopefully they might be able to help.

[MatthewL]

How far is the run? I would be running fibre, yes cutting ethernet is an option but if it gets stuck you've got an issue and it could snap if its been there a while it could be brittle. It I was you either purchase or borrow a set of duct rods (you can get them on a reel for larger lengths like 200m), fish a draw rope through and bring the fibre in, you can buy pre-terminated stuff so if you can access the ducts would be my idea.

[FN-GM]

How far is the run? I would be running fibre, yes cutting ethernet is an option but if it gets stuck you've got an issue and it could snap if its been there a while it could be brittle. It I was you either purchase or borrow a set of duct rods (you can get them on a reel for larger lengths like 200m), fish a draw rope through and bring the fibre in, you can buy pre-terminated stuff so if you can access the ducts would be my idea.

 

I am not sure how long. But certainly above 100m. Its going to be tested to see.

 

It would be my preferred option. Although no DIY stuff here - you need a licence to install cabling.

 

Looking at other ideas if its a no go. I can't really rip up the entire yard for the sake of a computer, printer and access point. Over head wire isn't an option as the yard has trucks, pallets, forklifts etc that go beyond the height of the building so we will need posts installing. Same problem means point to point wireless isn't an option. So i am back at looking to best of a bad situation with the exisitng copper.

[MatthewL]

Can you not call upon a cable contractor who would have a license to pull it for you? Other option weather comes under the same thing can a cable not be run around a perimeter wall rather than digging it up? I know the fibre run would be longer.

 

Other option, more expensive long run, 4G type device, VPN back into main network?

[DrBeaker]

Wireless - point-to-point/directional maybe? New cable run of Ethernet or fibre installation really. Powerline could be an option but not for production networks.

[FN-GM]

Can you not call upon a cable contractor who would have a license to pull it for you? Other option weather comes under the same thing can a cable not be run around a perimeter wall rather than digging it up? I know the fibre run would be longer.

 

Other option, more expensive long run, 4G type device, VPN back into main network?

 

Its something we are going to look at. I am also exploring other options because I think it will be a no go.

 

Wireless - point-to-point/directional maybe? New cable run of Ethernet or fibre installation really. Powerline could be an option but not for production networks.

 

No direct line of sight.

[chazzy2501]

I'm not sure what your objection to the current solution is but ubiquity make a small POE POWERED switch you could use to extend that connection.

 

https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-flex/

[FN-GM]

So I had them in today. The run is around 150m. They couldn't get through the existing duct so we can't fun fibre. Making use of the existing ethernet is going to be the best option.

 

Has anyone used these or something like this before? - https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/StarTech-PoE-Range-Extender-Gigabit-Power-over-Ethernet-Repeater/333503478804?epid=1240388733&hash=item4da65b3c14:g:mPIAAOSwMTFeN6q8

 

Thanks

 

I'm not sure what your objection to the current solution is but ubiquity make a small POE POWERED switch you could use to extend that connection.

 

https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-flex/

 

The whole point of the exercise is to remove a switch

[DrBeaker]

So I had them in today. The run is around 150m. They couldn't get through the existing duct so we can't fun fibre. Making use of the existing ethernet is going to be the best option.

 

Has anyone used these or something like this before? - https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/StarTech-PoE-Range-Extender-Gigabit-Power-over-Ethernet-Repeater/333503478804?epid=1240388733&hash=item4da65b3c14:g:mPIAAOSwMTFeN6q8

 

Thanks

 

 

 

The whole point of the exercise is to remove a switch

 

 

I get that dude but you can't break the laws of physics and signal regeneration - that's just how it works. Copper cable, fibre optic cable, radio waves (Bluetooth, WiFi, 3/4/5G and satellite) and IR are the only methods of signal transmission.

 

Each tech has their own pros/cons, power demands etc.

[FN-GM]

I get that dude but you can't break the laws of physics and signal regeneration - that's just how it works. Copper cable, fibre optic cable, radio waves (Bluetooth, WiFi, 3/4/5G and satellite) and IR are the only methods of signal transmission.

 

Each tech has their own pros/cons, power demands etc.

 

Exactly. That’s why I am looking to solve the issue.

 

The device I linked to is essentially a 2 port switch. It is powered via POE, receives the data like any other device and then forwards it on like a normal switch would.

Edited June 11, 2020 by FN-GM

[bald_pig]

100m isn't a hard limit, if the cabling is good enough quality you may be able to get away with a 150m run...

[DrBeaker]

100m isn't a hard limit, if the cabling is good enough quality you may be able to get away with a 150m run...

This is a valid point. Obviously to certify network installs for 1Gbps networks etc everything has to be to standard/to code with bend radius etc. To be honest though I can't see I've ever seen a fully certified network with every cable run, edge and main cabs certified etc.

 

You can likely get a signal past the 100m it but with the dropoffs/dropped packets/signal loss it will cause all kinds of issues with the kit and I can't see it running 1Gps. Personally if it was me I'd try to do conduit and run a fibre cable through to the location with a fibre switch/SFP port on the other end. Only because I'd don't want to be doing it again in the future or having to deal with issues like this again.

 

Certainly an interesting problem though, keep us updated as to how you solve it.

[bald_pig]

This is a valid point. Obviously to certify network installs for 1Gbps networks etc everything has to be to standard/to code with bend radius etc. To be honest though I can't see I've ever seen a fully certified network with every cable run, edge and main cabs certified etc.

 

You can likely get a signal past the 100m it but with the dropoffs/dropped packets/signal loss it will cause all kinds of issues with the kit and I can't see it running 1Gps. Personally if it was me I'd try to do conduit and run a fibre cable through to the location with a fibre switch/SFP port on the other end. Only because I'd don't want to be doing it again in the future or having to deal with issues like this again.

 

Certainly an interesting problem though, keep us updated as to how you solve it.

 

You'd probably have to drop to the speed down to 100mbps, but it's the path of least resistance!