Sync from MIS (SIMS) to GSUITE...?

[Koldov]

Completely brand new GSUITE user here!

 

Just been asked to sync all students from SIMS into GSUITE.... HELP!!!

 

I have had a quick search and see a few options, but looking for free, easy and able to be done remotely if possible for obvious reasons (I have remote access to our servers), the Google solution looks massively complicated...

 

I am also confused between the difference some providers offer in syncing GSUITE or Classroom?

 

Also once student accounts are in GSUITE from a sync (rather than a bulk upload via .csv), how are passwords created?

[Chaniel]

Do you already use active directory? Are all the students from SIMS already in Active Directory?

 

If so, you'll want Google Cloud Directory Sync (GCDS) to sync from AD to G Suite (https://support.google.com/a/answer/6120989?hl=en)

To sync passwords from AD to G Suite, you want to use G Suite Password Sync (https://support.google.com/a/answer/2611842?hl=en) which will need to be installed on all your domain controllers. This will sync passwords between AD to G Suite when the user changes it.

 

If you are not using AD already, you will likely have to do it manually (free) using GAM (https://github.com/jay0lee/GAM) or with some assistance (paid) from SalamanderSoft (https://www.salamandersoft.co.uk/)

 

G Suite is the whole infrastructure, that includes gmail, google drive, google classroom. Google classroom is just part of that, so a provider might only be able to work with classroom and not the full suite, depends on who they are.

[Koldov]

Thanks for your prompt and detailed answer!

 

Do you already use active directory? .

 

Unfortunately we don't have student users in AD as we are a small Junior school (c. 350 users) and use a class log-in system, hence my need for some sort of SIMS sync.

 

At the moment the Head seems to have the focus on only using 'Classroom', but who knows where it will lead as he's only just sprung this on me last week!

 

I have seen the option to bulk upload users by using a .csv (exported from SIMS) so I guess I can use this as the initial method of populating the users and creating their accounts in GSUITE.

 

What else do I need to 'manage' (probably a silly question but I have no idea what I'm doing obviously)...?

[localzuk]

The way I did it was.

 

1. All users are sync'd from SIMS to Active Directory using ActivMan

2. Synchonise that with G Suite using GCDS

3. SimpleSAML.php for SSO login, so no need for password sync or anything like that - it all uses your own AD to handle actual logins

4. A Powershell script that converts groups created by step 1 into Google Classrooms - this step is optional, as it depends if you want to manually create classrooms or automatically populate them from groups etc...

 

However, if you don't use AD for users, and instead are going to stick with class level logins (inadvisable with the rules on appropriate filtering and monitoring of internet access these days), you could probably just use something like Google SDS - https://support.google.com/a/answer/7552844?hl=en which will take CSV files and turn them into what you want.

[mowgli82]

Have a look at Wonde Sync

[dhicks]

I have seen the option to bulk upload users by using a .csv (exported from SIMS) so I guess I can use this as the initial method of populating the users and creating their accounts in GSUITE.

 

This might be all you need - if you don't currently use Active Directory with pupil accounts then there might not be much point in starting now, and instead use GSuite as the main pupil management directory. You can manage Chromebooks from the same interface, and using CloudReady you can convert existing devices into Chromebooks, so a move to ChromeOS for pupil devices might be the most practical solution.

[PrimaryNetMan]

Another option is GAM. Easy to import your pupils via csv and add them to OUs groups at at the same time. Can then use the same cvs to mail merge login cards.

[Ditto]

I understand where you are coming from! When I started in a school, I was in exactly the same position - NO active directory. In fact in my case, no SIMS, but Progresso - actually that last bit might have been an advantage

 

I think you may have found the solution when you mention the csv import following an export from SIMS. Look here https://support.google.com/a/answer/40057?hl=en

Do you have a organisation structure in place, e.g. maybe year groups or class groups? If not, sort that first. Next have a look at https://support.google.com/edu/classroom/#topic=6020277 for classrooms. They can be managed in a couple of different ways, but the head needs to consider getting the teaching staff some training on how to use classroom. It's not difficult, but a couple of hours of well directed training will save *you* a lot of trouble.

 

In you can find the time, do this admin course https://www.coursera.org/specializations/g-suite-administration

 

For you and teachers, look at https://gsuite.google.co.uk/intl/en_uk/training/ and https://teachercenter.withgoogle.com/training

 

Ideally, if you can find one or two teachers to be enthusiastic learners and leaders, once up and running you might find they really like the educational benefits it can bring. If they are keen on CPD and certification, get them to look a Google Education for Level 1

 

There are providers out there and at times some free offerings. I got my level 1 and level 2 certs for free through EdTechTeam. There might be a similar offering available in current time - try https://www.edtechteam.online/distance-learning

 

Hope it goes well.

[Koldov]

So things took a strange turn yesterday... I looked in to the .csv upload and a few of the other options I researched and emailed the Head a couple of massive emails explaining what needs to be done, to explain my findings on GSuite and what each option would entail (I advised that currently the .csv would be the easiest option to get us up and running and we may look into sync options later if necessary).

 

I sent him a third email with some further advice a little later (general things about creating OU's within GSuite and such) and got the reply that the Business Manager had already done the .csv export from SIMS and uploaded it to GSuite!

 

I logged on and found that the Head had made him an Administrator and sure enough he had uploaded 350+ students into the single 'Student' OU I created when I set up GSuite...

 

Now, as I don't know GSuite or Classroom I can't tell whether this will be an issue or not, but I have to say I'm a little miffed and not that I want to be churlish in the current climate but I am in two minds whether to just to let them get on with it or carry on trying to help (even though it appears to be falling on deaf ears and making me feel a little helpless)...

 

I just can't get them to understand it isn't just as simple as they think - the Head originally sent me an email saying he wanted to 'look' at GSuite so could I 'just set him up with an email address on a domain that we own'.... That was it, like he was going to do the rest himself....

 

He is full of confidence as other schools he has talked to are using it very successfully, but I bet he didn't talk to the IT teams and all the SLT haven't got a clue so just say 'oh yes, it's really easy to set-up'...

[Ditto]

I'd suggest getting skilled-up regardless. I can understand the frustration the heads actions have caused, but in some ways he's just diving in. Some learn this way, others plan and organise first. Putting everyone in one OU isn't great, but can be fixed later. His approach is inefficient and there's is a high chance they'll come to you later, so the sooner you can get things under control, the less hassle you are likely to have later.

[dhicks]

Now, as I don't know GSuite or Classroom I can't tell whether this will be an issue or not,

 

As with many directory systems, "setting up" is, if anything, a bit too easy - it's the ongoing management that can take time / expertise.

 

OUs for pupils are handy to have in GSuite, but assigning membership for Groups is more useful - a single pupil might be a member of a yeargroup (Y7), a form group (Form 7A), several curriculum groups (7A Maths Group 1), etc. I'd start looking at how you get information on classes / groupings out of SIMS and into GSuite. I'm doing this for our MIS (iSAMS) with some custom Python scripts and GAM, the command line tool for administering GSuite. These scripts are publically available, although not yet in a download-and-go state ready for other schools to use.

[Sohailahmad]

Have a look at Wonde Sync

 

Yes, Wonde (Paid) can pull data from SIMS and create accounts for staff and students. They also have additional features like SSO for other external services, helping kids log in to to things like Mathletics etc. They also have a easy login feature to create emoji or QR code logins.

 

https://www.wonde.com/

[Ditto]

In the longer term, I'd agree with the previous two posts. You might also want to have a look at SalmanderSoft too, who you will see have excellent feedback on Edugeek. For now, as you are junior school only, I think being hands-on is fine. Get to grips with things at a walking pace, even if your Head is running and in danger of falling. I think once you are up to speed, the head will settle as progress is made. My top tip would be to get familiar with Google Classroom as soon as you can - once you have the teaching staff comfortable with that, the options moving forward will be quite exciting.

[Koldov]

there's is a high chance they'll come to you later.

 

Well, I have to say yesterday I did actaully get an email from the head... and I quote "I created an account for a user and it says it is active but they are unable to access GSuite".

 

What exactly does that mean, 'unable to access GSuite'..?

 

I checked the user and they had actually logged on, so I emailed back asking for a few more details in order to assess the situation..... Where is the user accessing from? Is anyone else having problems? What are they trying to do? What error messages are they seeing if any? Is it a problem with a particular part of GSuite..?

 

I got an email back saying that he had sorted the problem... He had in fact made the user a SUPER ADMIN (I can now also see he has done this for a few other members of staff too)! Unfortunately that particular member of staff is a notorious 'button pusher' as in 'well lets see what happens if I do this' or 'let's try it and see' - put it this way, I would not like to be with them in a room with a big red button that says 'DO NOT PRESS'...

 

I can now see a few staff members creating shared drives, installing 3rd party 'external' apps, creating 'external shares' and whilst it may be fairly natural for some here with better knowledge of GSuite to allow the users a greater amount of flexibility/freedom it is making my 'sysadmin' senses tingle...

 

You might also want to have a look at SalmanderSoft

 

This also bugs me a little... I have now seen a number of posts about how many paid for 3rd party apps or Github software solutions are needed to manage something that 'should' be easy for a school to set-up, use and administer.

 

Something as simple as outputting a list of classrooms or adding a student to a classroom brings the answers of GAM, Salamander or the Classroom API...

 

As if the learning curve isn't vertical enough!

 

Finally, on a slightly related note... I am waiting for the email that asks for the Microsoft Windows/Server network administrator passwords... It will be 'interesting' to see what my job actually looks like when this is all over...

Edited April 3, 2020 by Koldov

[Ditto]

Oh dear! Being Super User, as you probably know, gives the user total control to see everything, that means everyone else's emails, files - the whole lot. Some would suggest it's already a borderline data breach. Do you have a DPO, and I mean a proper one. I can see it'll be hard, but if at all possible, you (and DPO) really need to have a chat with the head to protect them from themselves. I have first hand experience of SLT members who compromised their careers due to overstepping boundaries with misusing the power of their access.

[Simcfc73]

It does look like Classroom is for users to administer themselves without us.

 

I created all ours with GAM which was relatively easy but administering afterwards isn't the easiest.. especially if you don't have a list of all the aliases as I seem to hit entity doesn't exist loads of times. I now have around 200 classes which is a pain

 

Be nice to get reports as an admin too, they are very limited.

 

I've been testing extensions but havent founf the nirvana one yet.

[localzuk]

GAM is definitely your friend for getting info about classes also.

[Koldov]

Do you have a DPO.

 

Unfortunately we don't have a 'proper' DPO (the user in question is actually the holder of that role)...

 

Fortunately at the moment it appears that the only real proposed use is Classroom and no plans to go fully GSuite for emails and file storage as yet, so there shouldn't be any concerns over 'private' emails or files being visible (I'm not sure that school owned email and storage systems are ever really deemed private anyway)..

 

Also, today the head has sent out an email stating that they 'owe a big thank you to that staff member and another of the SLT who have spent a great deal of time and effort getting us to where we are now'...

 

Think I might just leave them to it.

 

TGIF

 

[Ditto]

I quite understand! Classroom will use Google drive so storage and permissions will come into it, but as you say, it sounds as risk to confidential data is minimal. I'd stick by my view on getting yourself skilled up on GSuite if you can spare the time. Personally I found doing so interesting and rewarding and valuable on a CV. But in the circumstances, I can see staying out of it for now is perhaps the best option for your on sanity! Enjoy the weekend and holidays if you're term time only.

[TwistedHelixis]

Found this which might help someone - Keeping G Suite and Google Classroom in Sync with SIMS – Daily, Automated and Free

 

https://edtechschool.com/keeping-g-suite-and-google-classroom-in-sync-with-sims-daily-automated-and-free/