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Meet & Safeguarding

edmokeski

By edmokeski
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edmokeski

edmokeski

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I'm looking at the potential for Meet + Classroom in case of Covid-related school closure. I'm assuming I'm not alone in this one, so wondering what others' thoughts are.

 

My main concern is re: safeguarding. While every classroom has a window in the door, a Meet session has only the teacher and students. Am I right in understanding what is logged in Vault is relatively scarce? (joining, leaving the room etc.) Now that Google have made the premium features of Meet free for non-Enterprise Edu domains, does anyone know if there is a way that we can play Big Brother, and enforce recording/retention of all Meet sessions w/in the domain (or an OU/group)? Anybody else have thoughts on Meet and safeguarding?

edmokeski

edmokeski

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So, I can control retention settings, but as far as anyone's aware I have to rely on the teachers to hit "record"?

Anyone else out there trying to formulate plans to use Meet in case of forced closure? I suppose my other option is to have a dummy account "own" the Meet sessions, so we can record them without teachers' input, but we're a secondary with lots going on at any moment, so it seems a lot to manage.

fiza

fiza

Posted
Posted

I am also looking at Meet so would be interested in the answer.

 

The other thing I noticed is that I can create a Meet as a Teacher (students can only join) but the student can kick me out of the meeting. How is this possible if I am the Presenter? Wouldn't want students messing around kicking other students out or even the teacher. Is there a setting to change this behaviour?

 

Also just seen that students can invite others to join.

edmokeski

edmokeski

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Spoke to our DSO, who thinks recording is overkill and is less concerned than I am, so probably worth checking w/ yours.

Re: kicking out of the meeting, I haven't yet found a way around this in the meeting, but they shouldn't be able to do it in the livestream. Trade-off is, of course, the reduced interactivity of the livestream vs meeting.

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paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted

I would look to livestream over record, personally.

I know Google have been surveying people over extra tools in Meet in regards to the control of the meeting, but obviously the coronavirus issue is kicking in before they have been able to implement these features.

jthompson

jthompson

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I'd struggle to recommend using full-on Meet meetings, having just spent time looking at it. It doesn't seem like an appropriate tool for the job (webcams into students' bedrooms, for one).

 

Using Meet but not inviting in any other participants, recording it and adding the recording to Classroom seems like safer ground. You could also livestream at the same time, but you may as well not bother if it's just a one-way presentation that's going to end up in Classroom anyway, where students can then ask questions.

 

Edit: We don't have Hangouts enabled for students here.

Edited by jthompson
paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted (edited)
Using Meet but not inviting in any other participants, recording it and adding the recording to Classroom seems like safer ground. You could also livestream at the same time, but you may as well not bother if it's just a one-way presentation that's going to end up in Classroom anyway, where students can then ask questions.

The thing is, you could livestream it as a one-way presentation live for students, and then respond live to questions that are appearing in Classroom, which you could then record for students to refer back to and place into Classroom. But yes, you could also use it purely to record instructions in advance too.

 

There are definitely a few features Meet is currently missing for student use. I did reach out to Google for Education UK Team on this, but I didn't get a response.

 

Students can kick teachers out at the moment, for example. Teachers can't mute and unmute users on command, just mute them. Students would have to unmute themselves. You can't set a meeting to be audio only except teacher.

I know meeting controls are due to come soon, but clearly the virus has hit sooner than the feature was ready.

 

Works fine for responsible adults in a Meet, but not for 14 year olds who do stupid things like send group wide emails and then insist they never did it!

Edited by paulkerton
jthompson

jthompson

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Students can remove other attendees, or invite others in, too. Ideally, it would be possible to set up a meeting such that only the meeting organiser has the ability to remove and invite attendees, and only the meeting organiser can share video and audio. Doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for Google to add that functionality at some point. Perhaps some tighter integration with Classroom, too (i.e. schedule a meeting right from the Classroom teacher UI).

 

Or better still, just have it as a 'native' Classroom feature so that schools aren't having to try and improvise with non-edu tools.

localzuk

localzuk

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I am struggling to understand the thinking behind using something like Meet. If the school is closed, it is closed - you cannot enforce children turning up to sessions outside of school - you can't register them, the school is closed. You can set homework, and have recordings for them to play maybe (even then, a simple reply of "we don't have a working computer" kills the idea off instantly, as there's no way to argue against that.

 

You end up creating work for those who have stuff at home, but those that don't are now immediately disadvantaged.

 

I just don't see any of this being enforceable.

paulkerton

paulkerton

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I am struggling to understand the thinking behind using something like Meet. If the school is closed, it is closed - you cannot enforce children turning up to sessions outside of school - you can't register them, the school is closed. You can set homework, and have recordings for them to play maybe (even then, a simple reply of "we don't have a working computer" kills the idea off instantly, as there's no way to argue against that.

You end up creating work for those who have stuff at home, but those that don't are now immediately disadvantaged.

I just don't see any of this being enforceable.

Again, regardless of whether any of this is enforceable. Regardless of whether you can make your children login and work, you need to have the facilities in place to make it possible to do so.

It's not any of our jobs to enforce it, its our jobs to make things possible.

localzuk

localzuk

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Posted
Again, regardless of whether any of this is enforceable. Regardless of whether you can make your children login and work, you need to have the facilities in place to make it possible to do so.

It's not any of our jobs to enforce it, its our jobs to make things possible.

Well, no, not entirely. Our jobs are to run the IT in our schools and fulfil reasonable requests. Opening safeguarding risks and providing livestreams during a quarantine are not exactly "reasonable" in my view. Especially in the short timeframe being dumped on everyone, so you don't have the time to properly check out all the risks associated with it.

 

Rolling out something like G Suite to people in a matter of days, getting people to use Meet with nearly no notice or training, and without any safeguarding in place? Seems like overkill.

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paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted
Well, no, not entirely. Our jobs are to run the IT in our schools and fulfil reasonable requests. Opening safeguarding risks and providing livestreams during a quarantine are not exactly "reasonable" in my view.

 

Well you know what they say about opinions. :D

You're not opening safeguarding risks if you do it properly. Meet can be used to record video, which can then be put in a classroom. It isn't hard. You don't have to live stream and you don't have to do video chats. It's options for people. Screencastify will work for screen recording information for students too.

 

Especially in the short timeframe being dumped on everyone, so you don't have the time to properly check out all the risks associated with it.

Speak for yourself. I've been doing G Suite for at least 5 years now, and the school I work in is a reference school.

Rolling out something like G Suite to people in a matter of days, getting people to use Meet with nearly no notice or training, and without any safeguarding in place? Seems like overkill.

 

Again. My job is to facilitate this. Literally my day job. We already use G Suite. We have training solutions in place for things like Meet, Docs, Sheets, Slides. We're already using these tools. I'm creating resources that they can refer to in order to deliver content.

If others are rushing to it because they've dragged their feet on the cloud, then that's their concern. We're cloud first, MIS and platforms and these issues are a great example of why we should be.

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localzuk

localzuk

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Posted
Last I checked, you weren't the OP in this thread @paulkerton - who appears to be rushing to do this without clear guidance or knowledge of the implications (which is why they're posting on here)... So, my points may not apply to you, but there have been a LOT of posts on remote teaching related stuff on the site recently, from people rushing to get something working asap. I would be worried about such significant new systems being introduced on such a short term without thorough investigation of those consequences.
Primus

Primus

Posted
Posted
Last I checked, you weren't the OP in this thread @paulkerton - who appears to be rushing to do this without clear guidance or knowledge of the implications (which is why they're posting on here)... So, my points may not apply to you, but there have been a LOT of posts on remote teaching related stuff on the site recently, from people rushing to get something working asap. I would be worried about such significant new systems being introduced on such a short term without thorough investigation of those consequences.

 

Suggesting the OP is rushing seems to be something of a stretch!

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paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted (edited)
Last I checked, you weren't the OP in this thread @paulkerton - who appears to be rushing to do this without clear guidance or knowledge of the implications (which is why they're posting on here)... So, my points may not apply to you, but there have been a LOT of posts on remote teaching related stuff on the site recently, from people rushing to get something working asap. I would be worried about such significant new systems being introduced on such a short term without thorough investigation of those consequences.

 

Well if it was aimed at the OP, may I suggest not replying to me?

There's no need to be aggressive. Calm down.

I think you're stretching myself, especially when the OP has demonstrated clear understanding, but each to their own.

The one positive of this horrid disease is that it becomes harder to justify staying with old and outdated on-site solutions and clunky VPN setups.

Edited by paulkerton
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localzuk

localzuk

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Posted
Well if it was aimed at the OP, may I suggest not replying to me?

There's no need to be aggressive. Calm down.

I think you're stretching myself, especially when the OP has demonstrated clear understanding, but each to their own.

The one positive of this horrid disease is that it becomes harder to justify staying with old and outdated on-site solutions and clunky VPN setups.

It is aimed at everyone suddenly rushing to get remote teaching capabilities set up from scratch in the relatively short timeframe we have. I'm not being aggressive - if that's how you read what I said, I apologise, my writing style is pretty blunt. Introducing any remote learning environment or tools requires careful planning, with risk assessments and a proper understanding of the privacy and data protection implications, as well as the safeguarding implications. I would say that anyone looking at a tool they don't already use, now, ready for potential closure in the next week or so, is rushing it.

 

We have taken a year to work through the implications of rolling out G Suite here, and there are still things that are being raised now.

jthompson

jthompson

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Posted
I would say that anyone looking at a tool they don't already use, now, ready for potential closure in the next week or so, is rushing it.

 

I agree with this, and not just on the basis of getting the technical details right in the IT office. It's also a challenge for the teaching staff. Thankfully, lots our staff seem to have taken to using Classroom more and more over the last couple of years, but that's not just about making the thing available: there's a fairly organic process to it's take-up.

 

I can't see many staff here being all that confident with recording a Meet session to deliver distance learning all of a sudden, although that will be available to them. It's not a style of teaching that they'll have any experience with. How does distance learning differ from the usual (rhetorical question)? On the whole, if our school were to close, I'd generally expect to see them just use the already established homework and Google Classroom workflows, only dialled up to 11.

paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted
I agree with this, and not just on the basis of getting the technical details right in the IT office. It's also a challenge for the teaching staff. Thankfully, lots our staff seem to have taken to using Classroom more and more over the last couple of years, but that's not just about making the thing available: there's a fairly organic process to it's take-up.

I can't see many staff here being all that confident with recording a Meet session to deliver distance learning all of a sudden, although that will be available to them. It's not a style of teaching that they'll have any experience with. How does distance learning differ from the usual (rhetorical question)? On the whole, if our school were to close, I'd generally expect to see them just use the already established homework and Google Classroom workflows, only dialled up to 11.

I don't disagree with the sentiment of any of this.

I just know that certain staff would like a video route to students, be it live or not. We would obviously suggest that they're recorded before being live and even if going live, multiple staff should be on the Hangout, though I wouldn't be surprised if SLT wanted to do live announcements as well, for example.

 

Also we're talking about Meet a lot, but wouldn't the same issues be seen in Teams too?

 

Staff will want a way to communicate live with each other as well, which is where Meet would come in for us.

mrstrong

mrstrong

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Have to say I agree with localzuk points / sentiment on this.

 

Also, did anyone see that clip on the news with a pupil self isolating at home? They where watching

the lesson via a live stream but not sure what tech they where using to do it. Can't seem to find the

clip now, was it a devon school, maybe I dreamt it ?

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