CHR1S Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Has anyone taken up CC4 yet? We are looking to move away from CC3 to Vanilla XP and 2003 but liked what we saw of CC4 as a whole package. Has anyone who is running it got some real world info and feedback of how it runs, how it differs from CC3 and how restrictive it is (if at all) to manage compared to 2003 and AD. Thanks Chris
webman Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Currently CC3 here; not running CC4 yet but planning to in the next 6-12 months. Our idea is to build a new network based on a (new) SAN + (new) servers + CC4 parallel to present network, and once it's configued as we like, we simply migrate user folders and applications and re-build all workstations to CC4. This seems to be a better option than upgrading the 6-year-old CC3 Windows 2000 servers to CC4 + Windows 2003 + SAN etc. and migration all in one go at the same time within a short time frame.
Butuz Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Has anyone taken up CC4 yet? We are looking to move away from CC3 to Vanilla XP and 2003 but liked what we saw of CC4 as a whole package. Has anyone who is running it got some real world info and feedback of how it runs, how it differs from CC3 and how restrictive it is (if at all) to manage compared to 2003 and AD. Thanks Chris Out of interest Chris - why are you wanting to move to vanilla? I would consider CC4 as an evolution of CC3, building on CC3's strong points and removing some of it's weak points. If you hate CC3 - i wouldnt imagine you would love CC4??? Butuz
binky Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Vanilla Mmmm.... Vanilla . Going CC4 (*hopefully*) this summer, just waiting on final approval.
CHR1S Posted May 23, 2008 Author Posted May 23, 2008 Out of interest Chris - why are you wanting to move to vanilla? I would consider CC4 as an evolution of CC3, building on CC3's strong points and removing some of it's weak points. If you hate CC3 - i wouldnt imagine you would love CC4??? Butuz Being server 2003/AD trained I found it counter productive and had the cost implications with the support contracts we wouldnt need under vanilla. Ill spare you the long list of pro's and con's but I will say CC4 impressed us, were having a tech demo soon and a chance to break a live server and client setup Ideally we want a balance of vanilla freedom with CC4 tools and management for the "incase im hit by a bus day"
webman Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Thinking about it realistically - do you really need the RM support contracts? We've never bothered with them so saved a fortune there.
binky Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Thinking about it realistically - do you really need the RM support contracts? We've never bothered with them so saved a fortune there. Yes and no, how many problems do you have? Do you want the updates? Even if you don't want support from RM, you should get the 1st year (especially with CC4, because many bugs will be fixed in the first few months) because its a new system.
cookie_monster Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 but I will say CC4 impressed us What CC4 features impress?
webman Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Yes and no, how many problems do you have? Do you want the updates? Even if you don't want support from RM, you should get the 1st year (especially with CC4, because many bugs will be fixed in the first few months) because its a new system. Hmm. I see your point Espeically with it being such a new product. I started working at the school after CC3 was installed so maybe we had an initial support period. We've had very few problems - in the first couple of years we also had LEA support but found we relied less and less on this so cut that cost too. I know our NM (bossman) has access to the RM hotfixes but we don't pay a yearly fee.
Michael Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 I remember receiving a CC4 leaflet containing all the so called brilliant features, most of which have existed for years. One good example is CC4 will automatically download and distribute updates from RM servers, instead of downloading patches manually and distributing them in CC3. Sounds like an RM version of WSUS? It also uses technology to download this information silently in the background. This sounds like BITS to me, again it's been around for years. I don't think RM are bad, but the prime issues I have are the prices they charge for services/solutions you can get elsewhere for next to nothing, or indeed free. WSUS is free for example.
CHR1S Posted May 23, 2008 Author Posted May 23, 2008 What CC4 features impress? The inbuilt auditing features, RM Tutor 4, web access restrictions and a few other bits. I know there are probably cheaper or free alternatives but the overall collection of tools, implementation and interoperability seem to be what we want (assuming the price is right). The only problem I have found with the support is 99% of the time I can fix a situation but its the 1% of custom RM weirdness that requires RM support to solve. And even with me being RM certified and the 50% discount it holds is still not good value.
PiqueABoo Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 AIUI current live CC4s are all field trials so "how it runs" now is not necessarily related to how the official release will run. ::touches wood::
russdev Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 As member above says all current sites are field trial sites but will gladly talk to you about it give me a email ([email protected]) and will discuss it with you. Russ
CHR1S Posted June 2, 2008 Author Posted June 2, 2008 Thanks Russ, we have just had our quote in so after a few stiff drinks I may drop you an email!
Thesweeney Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 Hi All, Just going through a 'live' migration from CC3 to CC4 at one of the Primary schools I cover. There have been a few issues with the upgrade of the existing systems, mainly drivers, and some software incompatabilities (DigiBlue!!!). Once we have it all tied down and running I will give you the full SP regarding the issues/workarounds etc.. BTW - RM quoted 1 day to do the whole upgrade job.. We are halfway through day 3 and still not done...
TechMonkey Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 Hi All, BTW - RM quoted 1 day to do the whole upgrade job.. We are halfway through day 3 and still not done... Was that 1 day to do just the servers or whole site? & same question for the 3 days?
Thesweeney Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) Whole site.. Both their 1 day quote and the 3 day actual.. 1 server and 55 workstations... Edited June 10, 2008 by Thesweeney
russdev Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 Point to remember people going through cc3 to cc4 at moment will have longer times as still few manual processes that once final install is released will be automated not done by engineer. Also big thing is how many packages you have that is the bit that takes longest etc Russell
ANiceEnglishman Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 The only problem I have found with the support is 99% of the time I can fix a situation but its the 1% of custom RM weirdness that requires RM support to solve. And even with me being RM certified and the 50% discount it holds is still not good value. Ditto! But what's this about the 50% discount for being RM certified? I'm a certified NM and my technician is a certified technician but we pay the full whack for our support contracts AFAIK.
russdev Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 i would assume they are atss technician and that is where discount comes in.. Russ
ANiceEnglishman Posted June 11, 2008 Posted June 11, 2008 i would assume they are atss technician and that is where discount comes in.. Russ Ah right. I was getting excited for a moment. Would be nice if they gave some incentives for those of us who are certified tbough.
Thesweeney Posted June 12, 2008 Posted June 12, 2008 Well.. The migration to CC4 is done.. RM said 1 day start to finish, actually took the best part of 4!!! Must admit it does look nice and the new RMMC is better to use that the CC3 version.. Some of the points raised during the upgrade are below, hope these help those heading down the CC4 route, or make you think again!! 1. New RM supplied server hardware had chipset driver compatibility issues during server migration, causing re-imaging to fail. **Cost a good half day whilst RM tech was trying to rectify** 2. NIC driver rollback was required on the server to overcome failures on all client systems during build process. This failure is caused by the NIC driver on the server being ‘too recent’. **Cost 3-4 hours of build/re-build time whilst trying to figure this one out** 3. Workstation builds can only be done by bootable CD, but has just been released by RM on their support site, of the ability to make a bootable USB pen drive for systems that have no optical drive. 4. Legacy systems with low amounts of RAM (256Mb and under) require a ‘low-RAM’ boot CD, which seemingly needs to be left in for practically the entire build process. 5. NIC drivers need to be added to the boot images prior to burning, they do not come already in the image. **Not initially known by RM tech, cost 2 hours build time and several CD-R’s** 6. Boot CDs are site specific, so if you have multiple sites all going CC4 then you can’t use the one ‘master’ disc for all sites. 7. Workstation builds taking in excess of 6-7 hours from start to finish, due in part to the number of packages that were needing to be installed (in this case IRO 120, including hotfixes etc.). 8. Build was hanging for approx 2 hours+ on the systems attempt to install DigitalBlue movie software, which, it was later found out, is not compatible with CC4 in its current build configuration. **Again not known by RM tech until had spoken with other techs doing same upgrades at other sites.** 9. Workstations are re-booting themselves when a user logs back on after locking the system. RM is aware of this and working on a fix. All in all, it probably is not all that bad, but as I said it took 2 of us the best part of 4 days to upgrade a site of 1 server and 55 workstations!! I really would not like to go through this on a large site.. Stay safe The Sweeney 4
Thesweeney Posted June 12, 2008 Posted June 12, 2008 @Thesweeney: you running XP or Vista clients? XP. The legacy systems are no where near beefy enough to take Vista (192Mb RAM, and they are only 2 yr old RM Ones!!!)
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