Going down the 1:1 device route

[manick]

Hi all,

 

I am looking at 1:1 devices for students and wondered what setups people had. We are an Office 365 school but I have been asked to look at Chromebooks. With this in mind I have the following questions:

 

1. Does anybody use Chromebooks but with Office 365 (both online and the Android App), if so how well does it work?

 

2. Does anybody use a windows netbook instead and if so what spec do you use and the rough cost, are the netbooks you use suitable?

 

3. Did anybody just bin off Office 365 in favour of Google, if so, how easy was the migration of Onedrive files etc?

 

Thanks

 

Nick

[supportman]

Don't do it.... crazy strategy. Lots of threads on here about the issues, costs and admin headaches.

 

EDIT: To answer your questions, if you did do it then Google Apps + Chomebooks are the way forward for sure. Microsoft doesn't have an equivalent yet.

Edited February 12, 2020 by supportman

[timbo343]

You'll find that Google Gsuite comes with it's own set of challenges which are completely different to Office365. I feel that just administering Google is a headache and frustrating. I feel that coming away from Office365 to Gsuite is a backwards step in many ways, it has it's few positives but i feel the negatives out weigh the positives. Also, we are finding just some of the things we took for granted are no longer there in GSuite.

[PlantHead]

We have some Chromebooks using O365 - the trick is setting up SSO from O365 to google which means the pupils login with their O365 login on the Chromebook.

1:1 device deployment is a lot of admin and support work - you need something like Intune to manage and remote deploy apps and you need SCCM to rapidly deploy an OS - which is often quicker than troubleshooting issues.

The big time sync is in breakages, it is an admin person just to keep on top of the insurance claims and returns.

[free780]

If MS came up with a £100 laptop then it could work. Unfortunately people see Windows and want Photoshop, Impero etc. Everything seems to be swaying to 1:1.

[edmokeski]

We are completely hybrid, without somehow being completely a mess. (All credit to excellent NM) We run Office on our desktops, Exchange (cloud), and Azure AD for identity. Sync that identity over to G Suite and SSO w/ Apple IDs, so one unified login and password. (further extended to all of those services out there that let you log in with one of those three services) We run 1:1 iPads, with G Suite as our mobile workflow solution. The mobile Office apps were a right mess when we started and the predecessor to Teams (MS Classroom) looked like a real turn-off. I think MS would have been easier for IT, but it would have been a waste of money b/c those devices wouldn't have had the desired impact on teaching and learning, and I think would largely have wound up in drawers. (Bold statement, perhaps, but it's what we saw when we went to visit schools that went down that route - the mobile MS device became a great tool for teachers' admin, but didn't have real impact on teaching.) Both Apple and MS have made big strides since in catching up w/ Google, but I remain skeptical that they're as easy to use. Our #1 priority was and is minimising the number of steps and taps/clicks to complete a task. Every ounce of faff doubles the chances of the device going in a drawer.

We have a few issues with staff who struggle with MS vs Google, but not as much as you might think. We encourage (but don't require) all new teaching materials to be created w/in G Suite, and like to think that Office is primarily for legacy stuff (although it is, in some cases, also for 'legacy' staff). Office is still used a lot for admin stuff, and the occasion when G Suite just can't hack it (e.g. Sheets is not quite up to Excel). In general, I think G Suite has actually been massively easier to use than the MS route would have been, and is a clear winner in the classroom (collaboration, Classroom>Teams, etc.). We have the advantage of having started down this path first, so users' comparison is on-premises MS services and IT suites vs G Suite and 1:1 iPads. Perhaps more painful if you're already invested in e.g. OneDrive?

One thing that helps hold it together for staff who haven't yet totally bought in to G Suite is Foldr.

Anyhow, happy to describe anything better if you like. We're a secondary of about 800 pupils, with a shoestring IT team (NM, technician, & me) - no idea if your environment is at all comparable.

 

ps - Why iPads and not Chromebooks? Because iPads are the best Chromebooks, and Google's answer to running (especially creative) apps is that your laptop can pretend to be a phone.

[mavhc]

I've been rolling out 1:1 Windows laptops and it's reduced damage, because I made them and their parents sign a form, and talked to them about responsibility. No one's breaking their own laptops, no keys been pulled off etc. Almost 0 damage. Plus makes everything faster.

 

Got O365 and GSuite. Synced both from AD. Fingerprint sign in on laptop to Windows, SSSO for O365, google stuff remembers your login so it's just 1 click.

 

It's adhoc, use whatever you want. Local Libreoffice, MS Web Office, GSuite.

[PotNoodleTech]

We've been trying to roll out 1:1 chromebooks here but with a very limited budget, so we've had to roll them out one year group at a time. Each Year7 that comes in in Sept gets a chromebook that they can use for the next 5 years. (they don't take them home).

 

So far have our Year7 and 8 and all staff chromebooked up and will be doing Septembers year 7 too, so will have 3 year groups done.

 

The benefits are clear, when every pupil has a device that can be used in any lesson at any time with no hassle no room booking etc, it is very good. I think it is the right way to go!

 

Your wireless needs to be good and your internet connection - our wireless is coping but out 100MB internet pipe to the LEA is not.

[mavhc]

Is there any p2p lan sharing of updates/extensions on chromebooks?

[TIOAOA]

Your wireless needs to be good and your internet connection - our wireless is coping but out 100MB internet pipe to the LEA is not.

 

My plan is similar to @AButters - what size school / how many devices are you using that floods a 100MB pipe ? As this is my worry as well

[mavhc]

If you're going 1:1 they'll be less data than just a set of chromebooks, as each laptop will only need to cache 1 user's data

[Ditto]

You'll find that Google Gsuite comes with it's own set of challenges which are completely different to Office365. I feel that just administering Google is a headache and frustrating. I feel that coming away from Office365 to Gsuite is a backwards step in many ways, it has it's few positives but i feel the negatives out weigh the positives. Also, we are finding just some of the things we took for granted are no longer there in GSuite.

I'd be really interested to understand the details of what you see as the positives and negatives of Office365 and GSuite.

 

I've worked in an environment that started and stayed with GSuite. Eventually they added MS stack, but it was still 90% GSuite (with chromebooks). Teachers loved GSuite and especially Google Classroom. The driver for O 365 was some (legacy) teachers wanting Word and Excel, maybe PowerPoint, but had no knowledge of the collaboration tools in O 365.

 

Yet, I've also worked in a school where the Network Manager would only have O 365, but a teacher who was a certified GSuite educator had developed her own fan base and GSuite was gaining an underground popularity.

 

In both cases, I have a strong feeling the decisions were driven by pre-existing skillsets and a lack of desire and/or willingness to learn something new. I genuinely believe either route, or even hybrid can work, but I'm always interested to hear the detail of those that have used both as to why they sway one way or the other.

[mavhc]

I'm still surprised not to see content companies selling content in GSuite format, it's still all Word docs at best.

 

Now had 1 1:1 laptop destroyed, by its user who was upset about something. Currently imaging a core2duo laptop with a hdd for them until they pay for a replacement. Welcome to using a laptop as old as you are

[chazzy2501]

I don't understand why people get fixated on Chromebooks as a value alternative. They're poor value, Google only support a device for 4 years (used to be 3) That's 4 years from when the device is released NOT when you buy it (just like a phone). A Cheap Chromebook is a cruddy dual core with 4gb RAM for £200, a cheapo Windows laptop is £200 with a dual core and 4gb RAM but Windows 10 has a way longer support cycle.

[mavhc]

The value of a chromebook is its lack of need for maintenance.

[Primus]

I don't understand why people get fixated on Chromebooks as a value alternative. They're poor value, Google only support a device for 4 years (used to be 3) That's 4 years from when the device is released NOT when you buy it (just like a phone). A Cheap Chromebook is a cruddy dual core with 4gb RAM for £200, a cheapo Windows laptop is £200 with a dual core and 4gb RAM but Windows 10 has a way longer support cycle.

 

Have you ever used one?

 

It's now 6.5 years from date of release and don't judge them on their specs since Chrome OS is so lightweight you don't need blistering fast processors.

 

They're not far off instant on, last all day off a single charge and rarely if ever go wrong.

 

They most certainly are not poor value, in fact they're the highest value machines we have in terms of value for money.

 

Oh and they're actually cheaper than £200 - even including the lifetime Google MDM licence fee that you'd want.

 

I definitely wouldn't want to use a dual core 4Gb RAM Windows laptop at all never mind in 6+ years time.

[localzuk]

I don't understand why people get fixated on Chromebooks as a value alternative. They're poor value, Google only support a device for 4 years (used to be 3) That's 4 years from when the device is released NOT when you buy it (just like a phone). A Cheap Chromebook is a cruddy dual core with 4gb RAM for £200, a cheapo Windows laptop is £200 with a dual core and 4gb RAM but Windows 10 has a way longer support cycle.

Chromebooks, up until this month, had 6 years of support from initial release date. This has now been increased to 8 years for models out this year and some from last year. If you're buying old models, you're doing it wrong too.

 

The devices are fine for most use - as they are for web browser use. A Windows device is not just £200 either. The device itself costs that much, but then you need a heck of a lot of infrastructure to manage it - if you add it all up, you find that you're paying a considerable amount more for it. From servers to Intune/SCCM to OVS-ES licenses. Or, with Google you pay a one off management fee when you buy the device, and get access to the management infrastructure for that entire 8 year period. Also, for £200, we got 2 in 1 devices that work as both laptops and as tablets. I've yet to find a Windows device that is this price point that has that capability.

 

Put it this way. For the same price as 3 suites of windows PCs, and a couple of clusters of 4 PCs around this school, we can issue every child in the school with a Chromebook.

 

Then there's the support aspect. We have 300 of them deployed now. We've had a grand total of 8 requests for issues in 3 months. 1 was a dropped one with broken hinges. 1 was one dropped in a bucket of water (which miraculously was fine, except for 1 dead USB-C port). 2 were dead PSUs. 1 was an issue with Wifi, which Acer support are resolving, and the others were fixed with a reinstall of the OS.

Edited February 14, 2020 by localzuk

[manick]

Thanks for all the responses so far, massively helpful!!

 

Has anybody gone down the route of issuing Windows 10 laptops? If so, what spec/price and what issues have you had?

 

Nick

[Primus]

For 1:1 I cannot even begin to imagine the world of pain issuing Windows laptops will be.

 

I'd rather stick pins in my eyes.

[manick]

For 1:1 I cannot even begin to imagine the world of pain issuing Windows laptops will be.

 

I'd rather stick pins in my eyes.

 

I know, but I've got to ask the question!

[EssentialRug]

We use Chromebooks in a hybrid environment and it works fantastically. Admin staff and teaching staff use Windows devices, and all students use Chromebooks and iPads. We have gone down the RM Unify route so that all logins are unified and now we are using Apple School Manager to create unified Apple ID's. If it wasn't for Smart Notebook being so well cherished by staff I would ideally have all staff using Chromebooks/Chromeboxes too.

[mavhc]

Thanks for all the responses so far, massively helpful!!

 

Has anybody gone down the route of issuing Windows 10 laptops? If so, what spec/price and what issues have you had?

 

Nick

 

Yes, HP Probook 440 G4s, with £200 trade in, so only cost £275 ish. Only £100 trade in now though. Then again, special school, so it's not 600 laptops.

 

Until yesterday it was 0 laptop damage, now it's 1 laptop smashed. But that's better than half the shared laptops with keys being pulled off. One fit of anger vs 100 bored kids with petty vandalism

[edmokeski]

We've 900-odd mobile devices on site at any time. Plus the rest. Pre-1:1, I think we were fairly happy on 100. (We did alright on a 10 "burstable" to 100 when I started.) Now we're running our 1gb at about 2/3 capacity. I find that the average teacher's motivation to engage with and use new tech is a fairly fragile thing, and there's nothing like having the internet slow to a crawl to make them distrust the devices, so imho it's pretty critical to have robust infrastructure in place. We rolled out a bit like @AButters (well, we deployed to seven year groups over three years), so we did have an intermediate step between 100 and 1000 at one point. Can't quite remember if it was 300 or 500. Key to me seems to be having the bearer capacity. Provider was of course happy to dial up speed any time we wanted to open our wallets, which let us respond quickly when demand required. Of course, now we're gig on a gig, so have to think about the next step before too long. We've increased WiFi density over time, as well, and now have an AP in every classroom (plus more in other spaces).

[PotNoodleTech]

We use Chromebooks in a hybrid environment and it works fantastically. Admin staff and teaching staff use Windows devices, and all students use Chromebooks and iPads. We have gone down the RM Unify route so that all logins are unified and now we are using Apple School Manager to create unified Apple ID's. If it wasn't for Smart Notebook being so well cherished by staff I would ideally have all staff using Chromebooks/Chromeboxes too.

 

Once our staff got them and got used to using them, and got used to the 10 hour battery life and instant on and off - they blooming love it - take a Chromebook away from a staff member and they literally burst out in tears!

[PotNoodleTech]

We've 900-odd mobile devices on site at any time. Plus the rest. Pre-1:1, I think we were fairly happy on 100. (We did alright on a 10 "burstable" to 100 when I started.) Now we're running our 1gb at about 2/3 capacity. I find that the average teacher's motivation to engage with and use new tech is a fairly fragile thing, and there's nothing like having the internet slow to a crawl to make them distrust the devices, so imho it's pretty critical to have robust infrastructure in place. We rolled out a bit like @AButters (well, we deployed to seven year groups over three years), so we did have an intermediate step between 100 and 1000 at one point. Can't quite remember if it was 300 or 500. Key to me seems to be having the bearer capacity. Provider was of course happy to dial up speed any time we wanted to open our wallets, which let us respond quickly when demand required. Of course, now we're gig on a gig, so have to think about the next step before too long. We've increased WiFi density over time, as well, and now have an AP in every classroom (plus more in other spaces).

 

Oh for a gig.