Students at 2 different schools (MIS)

[Frut02]

Hi i have an interesting one for you all.

 

We have 3 schools in our trust. One of them will be closing at Easter and all the students will be absorbed into the other 2.

 

In regards to SIMS. We have to keep them on the existing schools MIS system so we can register them AM and PM. However for most products that we use, they require an MIS import. We need the students to be on the other MIS system.

 

Can we have them on 2 with the same UPN? Will that mess anything up?

 

I'm thinking about the above it would mean that the student would need to be registered twice AM and PM on 2 separate systems

 

We use Go 4 schools which goes over the top of SIMS and this works well for our needs.

 

The problem is with things like Oliver, Live register parent pay...ect.ect... these all rely on a import from sims, manually adding them could cause duplicated when the children officially leave the school and become part of the other one

 

It's a bit of a mess at the moment, and know one really knows what happening and people we have about 3 weeks to do it all"!!!!!

 

Thanks in Advance

 

Nick

[BKGarry]

What if you had the admissions officers at the two schools they are moving to create preadmission groups for each year.

 

Then the person from the original school should export the CTFs and send them (via s2s) to the two other schools.

 

They import them into the preadmission groups, ready for them to be accepted on the date the new school finished, and then set them up to all be leaving the old school as "in-year" transfers at the same date?

[bobsmith]

I'm not particularly understanding why they need to be on two different MIS at the same time. Does each school have their own SIMS database?

 

this is not that unusual a situation - but it's not going to be painless.

 

as BKGarry has said above - you're gonna have to make them leave the current school and join their new one, and this has to happen when the actual physical student is scheduled to move. You can do this over the Easter holiday?

 

Once that is done then the student will only appear on one of the MIS databases. So they must leave one school and join another.

 

Is there anything complicated going on where you've got some of your third party apps using a different database where all the students are merged?

[timbo343]

Can you not set them up as "Guests" and the 3rd parties that sync the data should pull Guests over to the appropriate systems.

[CAM]

If the students are moving from one school to another, you take them off-roll at the closing school and admit them at the new school when they arrive. Do not have students live and registered at two separate schools unless they are guests or dual registered otherwise it could cause issues with statutory returns.

 

In order to carry out pre-admission tasks at the new school to generate logins and accounts, you add them via the Applications screen and set their Application Status to Accepted. A decent system should then pick them up when synced. They may need new account details, it depends on the third party system really and if it can follow proper procedures for transferring pupils between schools. You may not avoid this issue sadly so I'd expect it.

[howartp]

@NorthernNoel has something like this.

[Frut02]

I'm not particularly understanding why they need to be on two different MIS at the same time. Does each school have their own SIMS database?

 

this is not that unusual a situation - but it's not going to be painless.

 

as BKGarry has said above - you're gonna have to make them leave the current school and join their new one, and this has to happen when the actual physical student is scheduled to move. You can do this over the Easter holiday?

 

Once that is done then the student will only appear on one of the MIS databases. So they must leave one school and join another.

 

Is there anything complicated going on where you've got some of your third party apps using a different database where all the students are merged?

 

I cant remember the reason, however we are unable to enrol them into the new school. It's to do with results etc. We would effectively be removing every student from one school in year.

 

It's a complicated one, we cant add them as a guest as we have sunce found out that we can only have them as a guest for 6 weeks max

[CAM]

If the school is closing then surely it doesn't matter if all students are being removed at once?

[BKGarry]

Dual role them?

 

Main school is the old one (that's where the result count right?) and new school them as subsidiary, but you are likely to get a lot of issues with that once you hit census, as the original school will not exist and will not be doing a return right?

[CAM]

You can't dual roll with a school that no longer exists.

[Frut02]

It's technically not closing until 31st August 2019

[RLR]

We're going through the same thing. I've not been too involved but I did get CC'd into this email reply:

 

From the DfE's guidance:

 

"The main examples of dual registration are pupils who are attending a pupil referral unit, a hospital school or a special school on a temporary basis It can also be used for Gypsy, Roma and Traveller children, but only when the pupil is known to be registered at another school during the session in question."

 

Note the difference in that Guest students are on roll at only one school, attend lessons at another school but they have an admission number at their main school.

 

Dual Registration has legal implications. A school cannot just choose to mark pupils as dual registered or not. The school ought to know which pupils are 'registered' (ie admitted and on roll) at their school.

 

Guest students are NOT admitted or on roll at the school, they are on roll at another school, and only come to the school for lessons. So they are NOT dual registered as they have the ordinary single registration at their own school.

 

Guest students will show in Lesson Monitor for lesson registers as they are timetabled for lessons but will not show in Attendance as their statutory registration is the responsibility of the school they are registered at and they have no admission number. Guest students will not show as 'on roll' for PLASC/Census either.

 

For a pupil to be dual registered, both schools have to come to an agreement that, because of the special nature of a particular pupil's needs, the pupil can be on roll at both schools, with the legal and financial implications this has. It is usually a limited term arrangement, eg for one year, until the pupil is able to attend one school full time or in the case of a Partnership in which some lessons are taught at different sites.

 

As of September 2011, the way schools should record attendance and absence for ‘Dually Registered’ pupils was changed. Attendance code D (Dual Registered) is not counted in the School Census as an attendance. Each school will only need to record the attendance and absence for the sessions the pupil is required to attend at their school. Each school will use code D to record all of the sessions that the pupil is due to attend at the other school.

[NorthernNoel]

@NorthernNoel has something like this.

 

We sort of do.

 

We have three schools in a way. There's us, another and then a joint 6th form. We use Sims, they use Bromcom and the 6th form database which is shared is Sims. Technically 6th Form doesn't exist as its own school but it does in some ways. For instance it has it's own exam centre number but the students are registered individually on each site. The students for each 6th form are also copied into each local schools MIS for census. It's a bit of a mess which involves us having to run three separate databases and never having any perfect import tool. Basically I import main school and have to fudge 6th form for other things. Or it doesn't work at all and I end up having to mess about with csv files.

Edited April 2, 2019 by NorthernNoel