Projectors/Smartboards/Whiteboard

[ataylor]

Hi,

 

After budget discussions it was agreed that we can not afford to replace all interactive solutions with LCD touchscreens, in classrooms where the teacher does not require touchscreen functionality we are putting up ultra short throw projectors and in other classrooms where it is required we are installing LCD Touchscreen projectors.

 

We currently buy Hitachi CP-AX2505 for around £500 each which replace our old Unifi 45 projectors.

 

The old smart boards tend to get used to project on (the touchscreen functionality is unusable on a fair amount of our existing boards) but in some classrooms i'm thinking about replacing the older/smaller smart boards with a matt projection white board - do many people have experience with these and how do staff get on with them?

 

Also, for circumstances where rooms require touchscreen functionality we do purchase LCD touchscreens - at the moment we have 1x Gene touch, 1x Vivid touch and 3x Smart 4065 smart boards that I managed to get for around £1745 each , I don't really rate the first two but the 4065 boards seem pretty good, our maths department are the only ones that really utilize smart notebook, what other solutions are highly recommended?

Edited January 10, 2019 by ataylor

[localzuk]

The thing with interactive equipment is to look at the total cost of ownership. You're stuck with it for the next 5-10 years. So, when you say you can't afford touchscreens in every room, have you taken into account the replacement lamps every couple of years, the time to clean the projectors, etc...?

 

Also, take into account things like SMART Notebook - if your school uses it, then there are licensing implications from not using SMART kit.

 

If you don't need interactive kit in a classroom, have you thought about using just a large size TV? A 65" TV is around £500, and a 75" is around £750.

 

The SMART 4065 isn't made any more AFAIK, so your best bet is the MX series. The MX265 is around £1800, and includes a mounting bracket.

[ataylor]

The thing with interactive equipment is to look at the total cost of ownership. You're stuck with it for the next 5-10 years. So, when you say you can't afford touchscreens in every room, have you taken into account the replacement lamps every couple of years, the time to clean the projectors, etc...?

 

Also, take into account things like SMART Notebook - if your school uses it, then there are licensing implications from not using SMART kit.

 

If you don't need interactive kit in a classroom, have you thought about using just a large size TV? A 65" TV is around £500, and a 75" is around £750.

 

The SMART 4065 isn't made any more AFAIK, so your best bet is the MX series. The MX265 is around £1800, and includes a mounting bracket.

 

 

I got a standard TV for our meeting room - I've considered it for classrooms but i'm worried about their longevity and durability. Additionally with the projectors we can potentially upgrade to touchscreen functionality if it becomes necessary in the future. I need to check our oldest Hitachi projector on its lamp life as i'm pretty sure its around 4 years old and still looks great, new lamps range from £70 to £100+ depending if I get an original.

 

The Hitachi 2505 uses 310w and 0.35 when in standby and a 4065 interactive screen uses 175w but i need to calculate how much money that equates to over its life.

 

If we say the projector costs £500 and the lamps are £100 each

In a school year there are 190 days, 5 hours worth of lessons a day plus an hour for times that the board is left on in the day between lessons. That is around 1140 hours a year on the lamp.

The lamp under normal usage should last 5000 hours so that is 4.39 years per lamp so I can probably get away with 1 lamp change in its life time. so that is £600 for the projector

For the power, at a average of 6 hours a day for 190 days at 13 pence per Kwh, that is £46 per year, £460 for 10 years

 

So total ownership is around £1060 for the projector (quick research tells me I can get a smart board for £850) so £1910 if I want to make it interactive.

and for a £1700 interactive TV, £1959 with power.

 

Obviously these are all rough figures that do not take everything into account.

 

Additionally.... the electric bill does not come out of my budget

[localzuk]

If we say the projector costs £500 and the lamps are £100 each

In a school year there are 190 days, 5 hours worth of lessons a day plus an hour for times that the board is left on in the day between lessons. That is around 1140 hours a year on the lamp.

The lamp under normal usage should last 5000 hours so that is 4.39 years per lamp so I can probably get away with 1 lamp change in its life time. so that is £600 for the projector

For the power, at a average of 6 hours a day for 190 days at 13 pence per Kwh, that is £46 per year, £460 for 10 years

So total ownership is around £1060 for the projector (quick research tells me I can get a smart board for £850) so £1910 if I want to make it interactive.

and for a £1700 interactive TV, £1959 with power.

 

It is extremely rare to see a lamp last the full 5000 hours in my experience. We find we change them at around 3500 on most projectors (seems to be regardless of brand), so I'd be saying 3 over a 10 year span. However, I would also say a projector doesn't really last 10 years - they become dull/dirty after time, so I would usually schedule replacement after about 7 years.

 

Also, don't forget the time taken cleaning the filters, and changing the lamps. I'd hazard those numbers are much closer together with those taken into account. When I ran the numbers last year, the difference in TCO between projector and interactive TV was about £150. And that didn't take into account that TV's are MUCH clearer in a classroom than a projector image.

[ataylor]

I'm currently working of an estimated replacement every 8 years which works out that I need to replace 4 solutions a year.

 

The biggest cost saving exercise is dropping touch screen functionality in some classrooms.

[unixman_again]

For years, we've been trying to convince SMT to replace an entire block of projectors at once, beit with giant interactive TVs (our choice) or projectors. They still insist on piecemeal replacement, which means we have 10 different models of projector, so we need 10 different lamps. We have a couple of blocks with short throw Hitachis, which you would think would be a blessing, seeing as they are all the same make. We ran into problems recently ordering a lamp. It came but it wouldn't fit. For some reason, some of the projectors has round pins on the lamp, but most of them have flat pins. From what we can tell, the lamps are identical apart from the pins.

[Katy]

The thing with interactive equipment is to look at the total cost of ownership.

 

Unfortunately looking at the TCO only helps if the leadership actually care and give you the extra funds now to spend on the kit, in order to save money in the long term. Most don't seem to care about IT that much (or won't cut somebody else's budget in order to bump up the IT budget).

 

I'd say you're lucky in how your trust is set up in regards IT spending as you can actually look long-term and get better kit.

[ataylor]

For years, we've been trying to convince SMT to replace an entire block of projectors at once, beit with giant interactive TVs (our choice) or projectors. They still insist on piecemeal replacement, which means we have 10 different models of projector, so we need 10 different lamps. We have a couple of blocks with short throw Hitachis, which you would think would be a blessing, seeing as they are all the same make. We ran into problems recently ordering a lamp. It came but it wouldn't fit. For some reason, some of the projectors has round pins on the lamp, but most of them have flat pins. From what we can tell, the lamps are identical apart from the pins.

 

We have hitachi ax2503, hitachi ax2504 and hitachi ax2505 - I've not had to replace a lamp yet though.

[ataylor]

My oldest Hitachi projector (ax2503) purchased in early 2015 has 3247 hours on the lamp and still looks great 4 years in.

[TechMonkey]

I'd support the get a display rather than projectors viewpoint. TCO is much cheaper, don't go for a consumer panel and it will last well. Talk to Sharp as they do some models with great viewing angles and hard glass to prevent accidents, 16/7 usage for £1171.

 

I'll try and dig up the figures, but @VeryPC did a TCO exercise between Projector, displays and interactive displays. Displays came out well ahead of projectors, interactive abit ahead, and that was not taking in to account technician time. You also have to take in to account that projector output tails off as it ages so the bulb will still function but the class may be finding it hard to read without lights off and blinds down. Display will not and will not be affected by bright sunlight.

 

I don't want to offend but there is something wrong with your figures but I can't put my finger on it.

 

Finally it does depend on your classrooms. We have some really long rooms that a display will just not work with, that a projector can make a bigger screen, making it easier to view. So it does depend on circumstances.

[atcoates]

Just to add this in for the TCO comparison the Smart MX that @localzuk suggested provide this info.

 

"Commercial grade MX series is rated for 50,000 hours of reliable use. SMART’s Accelerated Life Testing ensures less downtime and longer life."

 

https://education.smarttech.com/en/products/mx-series

[localzuk]

Just to add this in for the TCO comparison the Smart MX that @localzuk suggested provide this info.

"Commercial grade MX series is rated for 50,000 hours of reliable use. SMART’s Accelerated Life Testing ensures less downtime and longer life."

https://education.smarttech.com/en/products/mx-series

Indeed. That's 43.8 years using the 6 hours/190 days calculation. Unlikely, but you're gonna get a good 15 years+ out of it.

[atcoates]

Just to add in my own experience we have around 100 smart panels of all shapes and sizes and so far we haven't spent any additional money on them. I'd guess the oldest ones must be four years old now. From a teaching and learning perspective they have been far more reliable than projectors and given staff and me a lot less hassle. They do need the odd bit of tlc but nothing like the time I used to spend on projectors!

[localzuk]

Just to add in my own experience we have around 100 smart panels of all shapes and sizes and so far we haven't spent any additional money on them. I'd guess the oldest ones must be four years old now. From a teaching and learning perspective they have been far more reliable than projectors and given staff and me a lot less hassle. They do need the odd bit of tlc but nothing like the time I used to spend on projectors!

Only thing I've had to do with ours is supply batteries for remotes.

[atcoates]

Another plus for the MX series is the built in browser (chromium), the ability to pretty much cast any device to it. Also it has built in software for taking notes, drawing etc. I have one setup in a nursery and we have no PC connected they just use the built in browser and cast everything with their Ipads.

[jmak]

In looking at prices for interactive boards. Can anyone give me a good reason why I should buy a V6265v2 at £2500 rather than an MX265 at £1900?

 

I will include proposals for other brands, but this query is just regarding these two models.

 

TIA

[localzuk]

Nope. I can't see any reason to do so. Also, you can get that price on the MX265 down to £1850 fairly easily.

[bitznpcz]

Are there any negatives to the MX range with them using old Infrared technology?

 

The price looks great, but for a few hundred more is the 6265 better?

[headoned]

Do you still have the issue with SMART that you have to buy a license per user ? because if you were going forward with SMART that would be a factor.

[bitznpcz]

Do you still have the issue with SMART that you have to buy a license per user ? because if you were going forward with SMART that would be a factor.

The license allows install on a few devices I believe. This helps with job shares etc

[localzuk]

Are there any negatives to the MX range with them using old Infrared technology?

We've not experienced any problems with the couple we have - and we've just put an order in for 7 more.

[jmak]

Do you still have the issue with SMART that you have to buy a license per user ? because if you were going forward with SMART that would be a factor.

Yes and no [emoji849]

 

You will have to pay for it at some point (although currently we're still using Smart Notebook 11.4 on Windows 10). However, direction from our SLT is that they don't want teachers to have to cope with learning new IWB software - and it's much cheaper to license Smart Notebook on a Smart IWB than a different brand.

 

Currently there seem to be offers for Smart Suite 5 year subscriptions when you buy a new board. If you have predominantly Smart products, site licensing is relatively affordable.

 

I keep hoping that we'll adopt Office 365 Whiteboard or Google Jamboard or even OneNote which would be free and work across all the devices we own.....

[LeMarchand]

Was just about to start a similar topic, so hoping I can jump in here.

School has 12 + 5 (Class + area) projector/Promethean setups (with a visualiser in the loop) and would like to replace at least all the class ones. Most of the projectors are for WEEE, but some are still quite good and would be reuseable in the areas. Teachers rarely turn off the projectors, so bulb life is nowhere near what it should be. Some use the interactivity, but mainly for writing/annotating and a quick search through the server suggests that only one teacher is using Activ* to create flipcharts (though, oddly, lots of the students) - so I don't think we need to bother with SMART or Promethean licensing. All classes have an Android tablet, so I'm thinking that these could pretty much replace the visualisers, if they could connect to the board replacement.

 

The MX625 looks like a great idea, but I was wondering if anyone has a better case for UST or interactive projectors. Or has anyone used a matt drywipe board + UST?

[unixman_again]

Teachers rarely turn off the projectors, so bulb life is nowhere near what it should be.

 

I see we're not alone with this. Most of ours just use the IWB as a projector screen, and might just as well have a £200 pull down screen.

[Metroid]

I think this happens everywhere, so many blue lights on in the evenings.

I have seen one school which had the projectors wired with a switched spur near the board and this seemed to improve things, a lot less got left on because teachers got in the habit of flicking all the switches when they went home