iPads in schools - Yay or Nay?

[Sonic007]

So I think nearly every school has had someone in SLT come to IT and say "Ooooh shiny Apple iPads, we need some. Go buy 300 iPads".

 

Has it worked out for you?

 

Yes I think they are great tools for research and there are some good apps for creativity but the whole process of booking ipads, staff randomly not taking responsability, ipads put back in the wrong trollies, people unplugging the charging trolley, people messing them up, iPads getting broken even in hard cases....

 

I spend more time running after blooming iPad issues.

 

Your thoughts?

Edited September 24, 2018 by Sonic007

[synaesthesia]

Depends too much; they can be invaluable tools used correctly, or a bind if not. There needs to be an excellent case put forward for their use with a clear plan. Without that, there's just randomness, chaos, and everything else you'd expect from someone buying stuff without a moment's thought.

[Sonic007]

Teachers randomly asking for apps to be installed after theyve all been setup does my nut in! When they didnt answer the countless emails asking for software they required on them.

Shuv the ipad where the sun dont shine!

[kidpressingbuttons]

We have around 300 ipads and still growing. We are also an apple regional training centre so we offer staff free cpd using them as well as schools in the town. I have found them to be solid devices when managed properly as we barely see them once given out.

 

Sign yourself up for Mosyle Manager on a free license and manage everything in there- no need to bring them back in and apps can be pushed out easily!

 

Massive investment has been done here to ensure they are of use in every subject as a tool not a replacement to a teacher. We are replacing nearly 150 this year with newer ipads as the old ones have now reached the end of their support. Mostly ipad mini 1s and ipad 2s. Replacing all of them with ipad 5s and a few ipad pros.

 

DM me if you have any questions

[christhetech]

I've seen both sides of the argument tbh. I'm not an Apple fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, but I can see what the attraction is for schools.

In a previous role, I would get a bunch of schools that I was supporting to pool their iPad purchases together into one big purchase, so that they could all reap the benefits of the training days that we could lay on for them with the credits that Apple offered in lieu of big discounts. I would also actively encourage the schools to think carefully about why they wanted iPads and what they were planning to do with them, and would always make sure that this was incorporated into any sessions that we would arrange for them. With the school having a clear plan of why they wanted the devices and how they intended to deploy them, they were a very valuable resource and worked very well indeed.

 

 

HOWEVER

 

 

I have also been to many schools that have bought iPads just because they were the latest toy and the other school down the road has got a hundred of them so we need them too. Buying them with no thought about why you need them and how you are going to deploy them usually ends with a few grand's worth of posh tablets stuffed in the back of the cupboard, with one making it to the head's desk for his own personal amusement and the rest ending up as a completely wasted resource because nobody really knows why they bought them and nobody really knows how to use them to their full potential. Every teacher is an expert because they have an iPad at home, but haven't the first clue about MDM or deploying Apps for Education across a complete estate of devices, so they have a go, screw it up completely then give up and put them back in the cupboard until the next numpty finds them, has a play and gives up, and so on.

[AlanD]

As long as everyone remembers that getting the ipads isn't a solution to any problem. Hopefully the problem is "getting students ICT skills". Concentrate on what exactly those skills are...which apps or program might be necessary....what training and support staff will need in advance....what support they will need in the classroom ...how those ipads ...or PCs for that matter might be managed...etc etc...

 

If its just someone's daydream that buying the ipads alone is going to deliver all the above without actually investing in the time and effort ...and yes money ...that all those other things will require...then chances are ipads are not going to deliver anything useful at all...

[FishCustard]

We're a special (SEN) school and we have a fair number of iPads here, although they're exclusively used for sensory apps, videos for the students and some other basic applications. Works well. Teachers also have one for taking photo and video evidence of students (we assess students differently to mainstream schools for obvious reasons).

[Brimstone]

The iPad is not a “ silver bullet” on its own to improve teaching and learning. The list below should be a minimum to even consider them.

 

1. You need a vision for how the technology is linked to and provides a basis for enhanced teaching and learning and outcomes. This has to come from your leadership team, not a single entity.

 

2. Look at your existing curriculum and review whether it’s fit for mobile learning.

 

3. Check your infrastructure can cope, don’t buy into an MDM solution without good support, all free ones offer zero help with problems.

 

4. Engage with an Apple Education Solutions Expert. Most of these have other schools very successfully using iPads that you could visit and the vital experience and knowledge to help you plan well in advance.

[Chrism03]

Definite nay here. I have had repeated requests for iPads over the years and only one request got passed the "certainly, what will you use it for? with what apps?" bench mark and that was for the Head and SLT's private collection of glittery expensive things.

Everyone else fell at the first hurdle.

[Garacesh]

We're a reasonable size secondary school, ≈950 pupils, and I can't say I'm terribly enthused by them.

 

From a technical standpoint, they're a pain in the proverbial to manage. You get 2 options, either you use Configurator and craft profiles, app lists, etc into blueprints and apply those blueprints to the iPads via a local connection.. By using a powered USB hub I've managed to do 16 at a time, but I don't know how much higher, if at all, that number goes. I personally find that the most convenient way of doing it, because the other option is an MDM solution. MDM solutions for Apple are very limited and all pretty much identical save for a few QOL features. But it's the way they work that's a hassle. You change the settings in your MDM, they fire those settings up to Apple, Apple fires the settings back down to the device. Which also means you're only allowed to play with the settings Apple lets you play with (which could be said for AD/GPO to be fair but you get considerably more control with the latter). With Configurator, you also can't remove access to some of the settings (invert colours, floating dock, zoom, etc) the most annoying ones being date-time and alarm.

 

From a teaching and learning standpoint, iPads (as are all tablets) are devices of data consumption, not of data creation. The only potential time this isn't true is with expressive arts (you can kinda draw, you can record video/audio, you can photograph). You can't write an assignment on an iPad unless you buy a bluetooth keyboard, which is just another thing to break/lose and by this point you might as well have just bought a laptop. Staff responses to iPads have ranged from "They're rubbish" to "I'm not really sure how to use them" but I've never had a definite positive response to them beyond "The kids like them". They seem to be firmly entrenched as 'research'/web browsing devices and not all that much else, which I'll admit in part is due to us not having a magic triangle set up, but we do have Office365 and G Suite, so not being AD-aware isn't as big a set back as it used to be.

 

Now the apps... I actually expected this to be where iPads would shine. I figured there would be issues with no keyboard/the keyboard taking up 50% of the screen, but I expected the staff to just ask me to load apps on to them that had UI's built for that style of device, but that hasn't been how it's ended up. Each department has only asked for a handful of apps each, and how often they're used is anyone's guess. Maybe the staff just haven't taken the time to look for apps, but given we've issued most members of staff with their own personal iPad I can't imagine researching apps would be difficult..

 

So, in conclusion, what we're left with is a bunch over-priced and under-utilised web browsers where we can't pinpoint specific activity to specific pupils (no RADIUS) and where kids can alter the settings enough to render them effectively unusable (date-time manipulation kills web browsing, zoom/invert kills other usage) and make them sporadically annoying (setting alarms). Now I'm willing to concede that some of our issues could be solved with changes to the network and to the domain but that's a lot of money we just don't have. My recommendation? Save your money, buy laptops.

 

The above is obviously all my opinion but it gets repetitive typing "I think", "In my experience", etc repeatedly.

Some of my knowledge of MDM's may be out of date, I only really properly looked at them a few years ago at BETT and haven't looked into them since, because money.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Garacesh

[steveg]

We are a 500 pupil primary and nursery school, and use ipads pretty extensively, and have done for a while now. They are certainly used more heavily than the windows laptops we have available.

 

From an IT and management point of view, they are very easy to manage, setup and maintain. A good MDM solution lets you do most things these days, deploying apps is a matter of minutes, and getting a new set of 16 ipads I spend more time unpacking them and wiring the trolley than I do setting them up. I'm not sure if you can quite lock them down enough against a secondary school pupil yet, but we certainly have no issues.

 

The key thing is ensure that there is an issue that wants to be solved, and that ipads are the best solution for this. Want to primarily look at office documents and type stuff up? Windows or Chromebooks are going to be a much better bet. Have a range of apps that you want to use with the children, or a lot of online content you want to access, ipads may well be the answer.

 

In education we are here primarily to teach skills, not specific technologies. I personally was pretty anti apple products in general, but when we looked into it, they provided the best option, so we went with them. We still have a range of Windows desktops, laptops and touch screen devices, and these are by far the more time consuming technology to support. We will start seriously looking at Chromebook devices when time permits.

 

Some things we have learnt along the way:

 

Where possible get different coloured cases for the ipads, and match these up to the trolleys - I wrongly assumed that a large clear label on the ipads was enough!

 

Get the staff ipads - staff confidence is key, and if they have and use one all day every day, they are much more confident getting the children going with them. We allow them a small amount of credit to buy and test apps before we deploy them, and this works well.

 

Provide training early on, and small refreshers as time goes on. We run a range of sessions throughout the year covering all abilities - there isn't a more mixed ability group than teachers when it comes to technology!

 

Steve

[AlanD]

From a teaching and learning standpoint, iPads (as are all tablets) are devices of data consumption, not of data creation.

I often hear this as an argument against tablets...and while I am not enthusiastic about tablets, I think this argument is unfair.....In practice - they are pretty good at creation...and work just fine - well better than fine...recording science results into a spreadsheet to create a graph with formulae or whatever...and they are certainly better than any PC when it comes to creating Audio Visual stuff. And while I agree I wouldn't want to type a long essay ...I'd simply dictate it, as voice recognition is really good these days. In fact, I often see students alone in a corner dictating into a phone - (they are not allowed to use phones during the day - so get challenged) ...only to find they are actually creating text (which they show me...)to later import into a desktop PC. And I think learning to work this way probably makes for a a very efficient process. Microsoft Office (and google docs) work just fine on iPads..for Cloze exercises, and worksheets. ..Learning to type a large amount of text should be a long way down anyone's list of useful ICT skills.

 

Eons ago, in science we had to draw a diagram and write a a description and method for the experiment. These days - get them to video it. Then get them to add some subtitles and headings..produce a report with "stills" taken from the video....

 

In languages get them to record mini conversations...and again ...get them to produce a video that demonstrates how to ask for something in a shop and ask how much it costs...or whatever.

 

...They should be embracing technology in everything they do in school...to make its use second nature...and tablets are just great for that (even though I'm not really a fan...)

[Garacesh]

Whilst you're not wrong, those are things that would definitely not happen here. Part of it I think is student culture. Maybe in a grammar school or an affluent area, sure, but we're pretty deprived over here and our kids are from low-income (and not always working) families, single parents, etc and whilst none of this functionally prevents being able to dictate an essay, there's something to be said for a lack of aspiration having an effect on creativity when it comes to a pupil trying to learn. Plus, should we really be expecting our kids to come up with creative solutions to sub-par tools? Shouldn't we just give them decent tools instead?

Not that I'm shooting that idea down, that's the point of these threads after all, different perspectives one might not have encountered. But in a classroom environment, dictating speech-to-text would never work.

 

I'm not so much using it as an argument against tablets, more as an argument "Pick the right tool for the right job."

It's one of those things where, yeah, tablets do have their uses, but they're a jack of few trades. Photography course needs to take photos, or Drama need to record a video? You can get a DSLR for the same price, which'll do the job a lot better and be less likely to get damaged. Music need to record someone's performance, or Languages need to record spoken conversation? Cardioid mics run from a 10^th to a 100^th of the price.

 

That being said it's interesting to see perspectives where tablets have been working really well, like @steveg's school. We have a modest SEN department here, I think we're at around 30 kids, and the iPads seem better received there, though maybe they're just playing 'educational' games on them, I don't really know.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Garacesh

[mthomas08]

So I think nearly every school has had someone in SLT come to IT and say "Ooooh shiny Apple iPads, we need some. Go buy 300 iPads".

 

Has it worked out for you?

 

Yes I think they are great tools for research and there are some good apps for creativity but the whole process of booking ipads, staff randomly not taking responsability, ipads put back in the wrong trollies, people unplugging the charging trolley, people messing them up, iPads getting broken even in hard cases....

 

I spend more time running after blooming iPad issues.

 

Your thoughts?

 

1 iPad yes used for reception sign on. We've tried tablets/netbook schemes and they've all been cancelled.

 

-damages

-responsibility

-everyone wants it to be a pc

-apps don't replace everything we have

-costs more to add no real functionality except mobile learning

-we even did it so the cost was passed on to the parents and it would still cost us money

-not the magic bean some have indicated

-not the way forward for young people that struggle to look after their own 'my precious' phones

 

We tried it for many years, different ideas etc etc.

 

If some one walked in the door and said "I want the scheme back" I'd want it in that persons contract to be the leader and deal with everything we faced.

 

Also at this time of economic questions over education... I don't think it's right to spend that kind of money.. I'd also ask what this person is trying to achieve or is it just typical 'on the whim'......

 

If you want to know more details about what we went through.. chuck me a DM.

Edited September 25, 2018 by mthomas08

[atcoates]

If you start fresh with DEP and a decent MDM a lot of the previous issues with managing Ipads will be gone. These days it's a pretty painless experience compared to torturing yourself with Apple Configurator and USB hubs etc.

 

My schools use Ipads for Imovies, Garage Band loads of different apps to support the curriculum. Teachers use them with assesment app and we're looking at the SIMS app as well. We've retired class cameras as people just use the Ipads and transfer photos and videos over wireless using file explorer app. We're looking at using google accounts so photos automatically transfer.

 

As long as the whole school is behind the project and SLT want this to happen then they can work in schools.

[mikes]

We couldn't afford it, we just opened up BYOD instead. For what an Ipad can be used for, a phone can pretty much do the same thing. For any real work there are still desktop computers.

[Brimstone]

We couldn't afford it, we just opened up BYOD instead. For what an Ipad can be used for, a phone can pretty much do the same thing. For any real work there are still desktop computers.

 

I hate BYOD schemes.

 

A "real" BYOD with students in classroom with;

 

a) no device

b) An iPad/iPhone

c) An Andoid tablet/Phone

d) A Kindle

e) A Chromebook

 

How on earth do you expect a teacher to teach with students using all of these in the classroom...?

 

BTW...a real BYOD program is NOT giving students guest access to the internet at break times.

 

I've consulted with 4 secondary and 7 primary schools who tried this and it failed massively, they are now looking at or are very successfully deploying 1:1 iPads, doing real work that's building critical, independent thinking skills for students.

[RLR]

We have children from all ages. Our 3-11 year olds have 2:1 iPads using the new shared iPad mode where they login to their own managed apple ID by clicking a picture. With the new content caching on the MAC this was pretty easy to deploy. Only down side was having to do 10/15 at a time due to not having a bigger sync unit.

 

Our 11-18 year olds have 1:1 iPads where everything is automated. They just have to do the initial setup which is a few pages. Core apps get downloaded automatically to the iPad and they have a Self Service area to downloaded other apps. All these students also have 2 step verification setup on their school google accounts.

 

I think the biggest thing is getting staff on board and getting staff that want to curate new ways of teaching.

[AlanD]

I hate BYOD schemes.

 

How on earth do you expect a teacher to teach with students using all of these in the classroom...?

 

 

How did you "learn" to use facebook? Or instagram? You sat in a lesson ...and somebody took you through the steps of what to click and what does what. Of course not....but all too often that is how "teachers" incorrectly teach.

 

The important thing is that teachers make demands of the students. "Use your device to ..." make a video with subtitles about the experiment in science etc. Don't tell them or give them some some recipe of how to do it.

 

Teaching by giving out a recipe is really poor teaching....and whatever the student learn - won't be relevant or true the moment the next generation of devices arrive in their hands.

 

Most of these devices run office 365 apps perfectly well....(or google docs)...and you can do simply amzing things with programing in google docs - to do a mail merge or something getting data from a spreadsheet into word documents or whatever.

 

I don't care if the students ask their parents...ask their friends...google how to do it on youtube...but I'm happpy to dish out 0/10 for the majority of the class that make little effor the first time...and the second time....by the third time....they begin to realise that its themselves that have to do the learning.....you can guide them....I ask someone who completed a task how they found out how to do it...we criticise it...we suggest improvments...why didn't you...etc....and ask the students who failed - what efforts they had made. Initially students hate it...becuase they hae to do the work....but eventually they get good at it.,..really good....

 

We need students with good - really good ...IT skills....not those those who can simply follow a recipe. How are students going to get these skills unless we make demands and give them opportunities to learn. By far the majority of students leaving sixth form would be unable to use a spreadsheet to record the marks for their exams...and add them up ...and produce a percentage. They wouldn't have a clue where to start....and its shocking. Its the modern day equiavlent of illiteracy. And yes, later some of those students are back in the classroom as teachers - doing their very best to avoid the next next generation gaining those skills.

[Lonix]

How did you "learn" to use facebook? Or instagram? You sat in a lesson ...and somebody took you through the steps of what to click and what does what. Of course not....but all too often that is how "teachers" incorrectly teach.

 

They spent hours and hours using it and sitting on it every night. If they made a mistake.. it wouldn't matter. If they wasted an hour or two.. they are wasting their own time.. this is learning time and it shouldn't be wasted. Spending 10 minutes for a simple task like inserting a picture in to an email can take time depending on the device. Not every device uses the same browser. Not every device/browser is compatible with every website (as we have learned the hard way).

 

The important thing is that teachers make demands of the students. "Use your device to ..." make a video with subtitles about the experiment in science etc. Don't tell them or give them some some recipe of how to do it.

 

And how much time have they just spent doing that? After 6 months they have produced the same level of work other groups have in half that time.

 

Most of these devices run office 365 apps perfectly well....(or google docs)...and you can do simply amzing things with programing in google docs - to do a mail merge or something getting data from a spreadsheet into word documents or whatever.

 

You've already said one word that is the issue with BYOD... "most". Why are you not saying all? because you can't and that is the issue here. You have one child with a device that isn't quite compatible... like we found the other day.. one person had an old iPhone... which doesn't work with a large portion of the Apps.. just a single person.. what do you do with this child?

 

I don't care if the students ask their parents...ask their friends...google how to do it on youtube...but I'm happpy to dish out 0/10 for the majority of the class that make little effor the first time...and the second time....by the third time....they begin to realise that its themselves that have to do the learning.....you can guide them....I ask someone who completed a task how they found out how to do it...we criticise it...we suggest improvments...why didn't you...etc....and ask the students who failed - what efforts they had made. Initially students hate it...becuase they hae to do the work....but eventually they get good at it.,..really good....

 

So again.. how much learning time have you just wasted just to get students doing simple tasks? Students get hung out to dry if they are late to lessons or have a day off.. what should we do to teachers that are wasting learning time? One key factor you are missing is.. the next teacher. Not every teacher fully understands all the tech.. let alone the cover staff. There is a reason why we try to make every classroom the same with IT. If you go devices.. you stick to the same one.. the same make.. the same type.. consistency. A teacher walking in to a room with 25 students.. all ranged devices.. nothing but asking for trouble. BYOD is a good idea if it's not required.. not pivotal.. kids can walk in and use it for research.. when it becomes a primary focus for learning you are asking for trouble. For what? pride?

 

We need students with good - really good ...IT skills....not those those who can simply follow a recipe. How are students going to get these skills unless we make demands and give them opportunities to learn. By far the majority of students leaving sixth form would be unable to use a spreadsheet to record the marks for their exams...and add them up ...and produce a percentage. They wouldn't have a clue where to start....and its shocking. Its the modern day equiavlent of illiteracy. And yes, later some of those students are back in the classroom as teachers - doing their very best to avoid the next next generation gaining those skills.

 

Yes we do need kids with good IT skills.. unfortunately.. they know how to use snapchat properly but not use email. They know how to use Facebook but they have zero clue about producing a professional document. They know how to connect up to Wi-Fi but they can't figure out how to create a table in word. They know how to type a text out in a split second to their friend but they struggle to create a correctly worded CV with solid grammar, spelling and punctuation.

 

Teachers need their class to get in, settle down and work quickly. They need to be given clear instructions and follow them. Not spend 15 minutes trying to figure out how to insert a table or a picture because they can't ask their friend that's using a difference device. They can't ask the teacher because he/she hasn't got a clue either. Not every App is is available on every platform. An App on iOS may not even the same on Android. Some students don't even have smartphones because the parents don't allow them. Some don't even have phones! What do you do about them? Nevermind?.... more learning time lost for those no one seems to care about.

 

Having been down a BYOD route.. it doesn't work.. it creates a nightmare and even most teachers got beyond sick of it... not to mention the first year that used BYOD ended year 11 with our worst grades in recent time.

 

At this time in schools where people are being strung up for grades/money.. I can't believe people have an attitude of just not caring....

 

As long as the whole school is behind the project and SLT want this to happen then they can work in schools.

 

I can't stress how important this one line is. The whole school must work together. If you dump it all on the laps of IT Support.. it will fail.

[mikes]

The teachers teach a "layer above" the devices. e.g. Students can you research the definitive history of pockets. They don't teach "can you go onto your home screen, then go into Chrome (or Safari if on IOS), then go into the Options menu on the top right (drag down on older devices)...." Any real work that needs to be done will be done in a computer room.

 

This is in a secondary school, it might be different in a primary school where young children may not know how to use specific devices. But then children that young might be better off doing things on paper until they are older?

We'd love to have the money to get 1:1 Ipaps but in my area only the school that the LEA bosses children go to can afford 1:1 Ipads.

Edited September 26, 2018 by mikes