6 years into iPad 1:1 - Suggest some Windows 1:1 alternatives!

[Andycat]

Hi all,

 

We're 6 years into a 1:1 ipad scheme here, and we have a review meeting next week. Our Lead Teacher is an Apple Educator, and has always pushed iPads obviously, but device choice is down on the agenda.

 

The Parents buy the devices over 3 years, does anyone do a Windows device on a similar scheme? Ideally, this would be our choice to take away the layer of management that ipads bring. We'd be starting afresh completely if we decided Google Chromebooks etc, so not keen to push that, and I think iPads aren't really keeping up, education wise, and a majority of staff and students want something more useful for actual coursework (Keyboard, printing, shares etc.)

 

All experience/advice welcome!

[localzuk]

I'd thoroughly recommend looking at the Lenovo Miix 320. Great little device - a bit cheaper too (£200 for one with an Atom, 4GB RAM and 64GB SSD at the moment).

[3s-gtech]

First and foremost - what do you want to achieve as an outcome to this? Did the iPads achieve the same thing? Will changing the devices initially have an impact on teaching and learning? Has the existing scheme brought benefits? Those questions can help you to determine what new device is best. Windows is fine, but I can't help feeling that it's not as well suited to this task as a Chromebook, simply because of layers of complexity, cost, things like battery life (though Windows on ARM may help this) and durability. If you don't use G Suite at all, it's less of an obvious choice of course. For Windows devices, it pays to not look at it saying "these are cheaper than iPads!" There will be cheaper devices, but will they last six years? Will they work well in that time?

[Andycat]

First and foremost - what do you want to achieve as an outcome to this? Did the iPads achieve the same thing? Will changing the devices initially have an impact on teaching and learning? Has the existing scheme brought benefits? Those questions can help you to determine what new device is best. Windows is fine, but I can't help feeling that it's not as well suited to this task as a Chromebook, simply because of layers of complexity, cost, things like battery life (though Windows on ARM may help this) and durability. If you don't use G Suite at all, it's less of an obvious choice of course. For Windows devices, it pays to not look at it saying "these are cheaper than iPads!" There will be cheaper devices, but will they last six years? Will they work well in that time?

 

The earlier iPads haven't lasted 5 or 6 years, they're stuck on 9.3.5.

 

We don't use G Suite at all, and have been fully O365 for years (one of 1st schools to adopt, but that's another story...).

 

I like the idea of Chromebooks, but don't like the idea of a few years of running Chromebooks, ipads and Windows until we lose all the existing ipadders!

[Brimstone]

I'd thoroughly recommend looking at the Lenovo Miix 320. Great little device - a bit cheaper too (£200 for one with an Atom, 4GB RAM and 64GB SSD at the moment).

In an education environment cheaper is never better, and specs should be about 2% of the decision making process. This is about teaching and learning.End of.

[localzuk]

In an education environment cheaper is never better, and specs should be about 2% of the decision making process. This is about teaching and learning.End of.

Don't be silly. I stated they're good device, and that they are also cheaper (ie. that its a bonus). Also, please show me the proof that an iPad provides a better educational outcome than a Windows device that operates as both a tablet and a laptop. I'd love to see it.

 

Cheaper DOES matter. It makes things more accessible to poorer families, if they're buying them themselves, or it reduces the budget cost internally to the school if they are funding things. To ignore cost is just naive.

[Brimstone]

Hi all,

 

We're 6 years into a 1:1 ipad scheme here, and we have a review meeting next week. Our Lead Teacher is an Apple Educator, and has always pushed iPads obviously, but device choice is down on the agenda.

 

The Parents buy the devices over 3 years, does anyone do a Windows device on a similar scheme? Ideally, this would be our choice to take away the layer of management that ipads bring. We'd be starting afresh completely if we decided Google Chromebooks etc, so not keen to push that, and I think iPads aren't really keeping up, education wise, and a majority of staff and students want something more useful for actual coursework (Keyboard, printing, shares etc.)

 

All experience/advice welcome!

I wince on here everytime someone mentions keyboards and printing, actual coursework can be totally digital. Yes there are Art projects and other work that does require being printed and shown off in school.

 

Go and see a school that is doing this or engage with an Apple Education Specialist is my best advice to you.

[PotNoodleTech]

The problem with Ipads is you are in a constant battle with Apple to actually control them and mould them to how a large establishment like a school wants to use them. It's like you're fighting the device and the device is fighting you all the way!

 

Luckily for us we are already using GSuite a lot so the transition to chromebooks was an obvious one and a correct one. We're not looking back. Chromebooks are the complete opposite of ipads - you feel like the Chromebook was designed just for us! Google loaded them with features for education and management. Unlike apple, they continuously improve the management of them with each update. You don't fight a Chromebook, you unbox it, enrol it into your google establishment and 120 seconds later give it to the pupils to use. It is that easy.

 

Windows is in the middle, manageable but takes more initial setting up and works less well when the devices are taken away from school.

 

Just my 2p - it's going to be difficult for you to power on through the ipad mentality in your school by the sound of it so good luck and let us know how it goes.

Edited May 11, 2018 by PotNoodleTech

[TechMonkey]

I wince on here everytime someone mentions keyboards and printing, actual coursework can be totally digital. Yes there are Art projects and other work that does require being printed and shown off in school.

 

Go and see a school that is doing this or engage with an Apple Education Specialist is my best advice to you.

 

Can I ask what the issue is with keyboards that causes you such physical pain? Are pupils only consuming content now, sitting there being dull, lifeless vessels for content to be poured into, with the occasional stabbing at the screen? Or should we strive to engage them to create, to write, to wax lyrical about the things they are learning, to communicate eloquently and learn that the written word is a versatile medium?

 

I kind of agree about the printing, but until an establishment has embraced paperless fully then there will be a requirement for printing so it needs to be taken into consideration.

 

In regards to O365 and Chromebooks, my understanding is that there are full office apps for Chrome OS now so you can use them with out being tied to the Gsuite.

Edited May 11, 2018 by TechMonkey

[3s-gtech]

You don't fight a Chromebook, you unbox it, pay an additional £19 per device and enrol it into your google establishment and 120 seconds later give it to the pupils to use. It is that easy.

Edited for accuracy Just worth bearing in mind - this extra cost is significant across the school, especially if parents are paying for the devices.

[Andycat]

Go and see a school that is doing this or engage with an Apple Education Specialist is my best advice to you.

 

We employ an Apple Specialist (ADE), as stated in the original post.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Edited for accuracy Just worth bearing in mind - this extra cost is significant across the school, especially if parents are paying for the devices.

 

Yes, and as we already do, and will, pay for Intune and an OVS, Windows would be no extra management cost.

[PotNoodleTech]

Edited for accuracy Just worth bearing in mind - this extra cost is significant across the school, especially if parents are paying for the devices.

 

Sorry, forgot about the £19 per device as my supplier has been throwing it in for free.

 

Still as we're talking about Chromebooks V ipads, the £19 is still inconsequential given ipads are nearly TWICE the price...

[TIOAOA]

Sorry, forgot about the £19 per device as my supplier has been throwing it in for free.

 

Still as we're talking about Chromebooks V ipads, the £19 is still inconsequential given ipads are nearly TWICE the price...

@AButters Thats a supplier I'm sure we would all be interested in, care to enlighten us ?

[mjk]

We're a 1:1 chromebook school and wouldn't even consider going to anything else.

The management of them is so simple and the range of apps is enormous if you consider they run android apps (and linux soon).

[bossman]

We are currently looking to be going 1:1 Chromebooks after our new school rebuild...also looking at Chrome OS for all our old devices so that we can ditch Microsoft eventually......

 

As for IPads they are so 1980s if you get my drift....didn't work well in America in an educational environment which eventually went full Chromebook and GSuite and the guy in charge was investigated for fraud so I am led to believe.....

 

Chromebooks and GSuite unfortunately the way to go in my honest opinion as even today O365 has been yet again found wanting within its core...

 

Its beginning to look like a one horse race at this point in time with the other 2 main contenders falling back at every fence.....

 

Just saying like.....

 

I'm no expert......

[Brimstone]

Can I ask what the issue is with keyboards that causes you such physical pain? Are pupils only consuming content now, sitting there being dull, lifeless vessels for content to be poured into, with the occasional stabbing at the screen? Or should we strive to engage them to create, to write, to wax lyrical about the things they are learning, to communicate eloquently and learn that the written word is a versatile medium?

Everything in your last sentence can and IS being done by successful schools using iPads, I'm frankly flabbergasted that you think an iPad is just for consumption.

 

I suggest you do some research...

[mjk]

Everything in your last sentence can and IS being done by successful schools using iPads, I'm frankly flabbergasted that you think an iPad is just for consumption.

 

I suggest you do some research...

 

To be fair; there are quite a few things that are not being done on ipads - like programming python, taking examinations - which Chromebooks handle just fine.

Sure you CAN buy an extra keyboard but in reality I could see teachers getting frustrated with them given a machine for half the price has a tablet mode and all the apps and does more.

[Brimstone]

You don't fight a Chromebook, you unbox it, enrol it into your google establishment and 120 seconds later give it to the pupils to use. It is that easy.

With the right tools and infastructure in place...

 

Give an unboxed iPad to a student, get them to activate it, auth to AD and auto enrol into you MDM via DEP takes about the same time.

 

Just done a deployment of 1000 with 1 other tech took 2.5 days, touched about 3 iPads myself.

[PotNoodleTech]

@AButters Thats a supplier I'm sure we would all be interested in, care to enlighten us ?

 

https://www.prowise.com/en/personal-devices/chromebooks/

 

£159 including the licence.

[TechMonkey]

Everything in your last sentence can and IS being done by successful schools using iPads, I'm frankly flabbergasted that you think an iPad is just for consumption.

 

I suggest you do some research...

 

Ah, I see we are at the "oh it is out there, go find it yourself" level of discussion.

 

iPads are consumption devices., however gasted your flabber is. Yes content can be created on them, how long are you expecting people to type on an onscreen keyboard? Are you seriously saying a dedicated keyboard is inferior to an onscreen keyboard? You also failed to answer my question about what is your issue with keyboards? Or is writing on an onscreen keyboard limiting your ability to write back more than a couple of sentences at a time?

[MkII]

*mod hat*

 

Can we try to keep to factual comments as much as possible please.

[elsiegee40]

Second mod hat.

 

Please discuss the topic rather than attack individuals. Some are fervently for or against certain technologies. That's OK. Back your argument up with reasoning. Don't shout others down. If someone disagrees with you it doesn't mean they're wrong.

[PotNoodleTech]

With the right tools and infastructure in place...

 

Give an unboxed iPad to a student, get them to activate it, auth to AD and auto enrol into you MDM via DEP takes about the same time.

 

Just done a deployment of 1000 with 1 other tech took 2.5 days, touched about 3 iPads myself.

 

You clearly know your onions when it comes to ipads. Have you managed to get round the issue of using google apps on ipads and each app caching all user credentials entered so that any user can log in as any other user without entering a password? Google say "heeey it's an apple thing" apple say "heeey it's a google thing".

[Andycat]

Thanks for the answers so far, and I appreciate opinions come into this. More directly put:

 

I don't need any advice on the benefits/faults of iPads, we have 1700, have used 2 MDM's in that time and know the restrictions and problems with them in our use.

 

I like the idea of Chromebooks, but unless we start afresh, don't want to run/maintain 3 separate streams of device;

 

Therefore, I'd love to hear from anyone who's run a Windows 1:1 scheme, especially with the newer Windows 10 devices.

 

Sorry If I wasn't as clear as I could have been!

[Brimstone]

You clearly know your onions when it comes to ipads. Have you managed to get round the issue of using google apps on ipads and each app caching all user credentials entered so that any user can log in as any other user without entering a password? Google say "heeey it's an apple thing" apple say "heeey it's a google thing".

Are these iOS apps or are you using Safari?