Plastic reduction

[Katy]

Just thought about this. The Dell PC delivery we had recently had very little plastic. They KB and mouse are bagged and a thin layer of foam on the screen. The rest was cardboard. Good to see!

Compared to how they used to be - huge box with huge bits of.. not blown polystyrene but some sort of black plasticy equivalent - every time we had a batch of Dell PCs arrived we filled 5 (of a total 10) of those huge bins, had to warn the site manager in advance and usually needed an additional collection organising.

 

I've started including things like packaging as part of the decision process when buying new equipment - when we got enough PCs off Ergo (zoostorms) they were pallet shipped with the only plastic being the pallet wrap, Very PC they're cardboard boxes with cardboard inside holding the PC in place. Shame we still get a CD and book for each one although suppose that'd mean convincing the motherboard manufacturers to stop supplying every OEM board with that!

 

One thing I've not managed to do yet though is get monitors sensibly packaged - if we could get monitors without the stands (as we have all-in-one style cases - the stands just go to the PC recyclers as there's no room to store them), and packaged with cardboard rather than blown polystyrene - that'd be brilliant.

 

As has already been mentioned, network cables packaging is ridiculous - individually have those twist cable ties on them, individually bagged, then bagged in 10s.

 

I also hate the "bagged air" packaging, so much waste where a smaller box could have been used, or some sort of paper based packaging.

 

Another one is when you've bought some sort of meat at the supermarket - it's already on a plastic tray wrapped in plastic - and they insist on putting it in its own little plastic bag at the checkout.

[Arthur]

Just thought about this. The Dell PC delivery we had recently had very little plastic. They KB and mouse are bagged and a thin layer of foam on the screen. The rest was cardboard. Good to see!

Apple have also started using cardboard to replace the huge blocks of polystyrene that used to be in their iMac boxes. While good to see, they should have starting doing this years ago!

 

 

 

[AMLinington]

My local butcher is now letting you bring your own tubs for taking meat home rather than using plastic bags

 

I love this idea, although my Nan always used to get stuff wrapped in butcher-paper - I don't know why this isn't still a thing.

 

It's got to be down to cost.

 

For example, I bought 4 limes from asda. It cost £1 for 4 limes but in a plastic container. 4 limes seperate would cost me £1.50.

 

I know it's only 50p but things have to cost the same. Money is tight, so I need to think about me and my kids first and foremost. It sounds selfish, but thats the reality.

 

I find this frustrating too. It's not just the quantity thing either - fresh Jazz apples in Asda aren't all that fresh, go off quickly and are usually all bruised. A pre-packed bag of 6 are crispy, juicy and fresh. I'd rather buy the ones that are going to last longer and taste nicer than the loose ones that are all damaged and gross-tasting.

 

Same with carrots. Loose carrots that I can put in a paper bag are more expensive than the ones in the bags.

 

Ditto Mushrooms. :-7

 

Women products that my wife uses with extra plastic that’s what annoys. Also does recycling stop when stuff goes upstairs and then just the bin.

 

At some point they replaced the cardboard tubes for Tampons with Plastic (not all of them, but a good chunk). You can't flush them any more and they don't biodegrade. BUT, that being said, 'Women's products' is a dangerous category to start criticising - especially as a man. If you had to spend a week with your 'intimate parts' wrapped in absorbent material wouldn't you want it as sanitary as possible? Whilst there are plenty of eco-friendly solutions and reusable pads etc, few of them are comfortable or reliable. Menstruation is one area where I refuse to let a MAN shame my choices. Of course I actually choose to use a Mooncup (reusable Silicone cup worn inside) - they are ridiculously comfortable and eco friendly to boot, but that was a comfort and lifestyle choice, the eco-benefits were secondary. Women's menstrual products are already subject to excessive taxation or price hikes in certain parts of the world and are deemed 'luxury items' for what is an essential bodily function.

 

How about you men stop shaving entirely and go full-beard? Shaving is a luxury is it not? It's not essential to your survival to shave is it? Those tins of shaving foam in landfill? Bottles of Shave oil? Plastic razors or the metal blades? All that could be removed entirely if men simply didn't shave. Unfortunately women can't just 'stop bleeding' and I can't say I'd be terribly keen on putting something near a bleeding bodily oriface that wasn't at least a little bit sanitary and protected by some kind of wrapper.

 

In our house we take a large bin upstairs and separate the recyclables before we empty the bins - it's usually the bathroom and toilet that generate the most - cardboard toilet roll tubes, shampoo bottles, etc. We use hankies where we can so most of our 'bedroom waste' is stuff like cotton wool pads I've used to remove my makeup, which aren't recyclable, or the annoying plastic packaging that is on almost everything that can't be recycled.

Edited April 30, 2018 by AMLinington

[nicholab]

Why is extra plastic need when card has worked find for years?

[FN-GM]

These guys do - Home - CC Communications

 

Ask for Keith.

[eyetea]

Put myself on the list for the allotments 100m down from our house. Watch this space in several years time... (then a year or so on from that!)

[AMLinington]

Why is extra plastic need when card has worked find for years?

 

I suspect it may have something to do with a) the glue used to hold the tubes together and b) the fact that cardboard tubes are a better breeding ground for bacteria than a plastic tube.

 

Although Tampons are already pretty sketchy as it is - Toxic Shock Syndrome seems like a crazy risk to take when a Silicone cup is so much less dangerous and uncomfortable.

 

It kinda bugs me that people just assume #allwomen use tampons - a good chunk of us HATE them and refuse to wear them - they are drying, the string is annoying and rubs, they leak like mad. Buying a Mooncup was the best thing I ever did. It's revolutionised my lady time experience.

[nicholab]

I suspect it may have something to do with a) the glue used to hold the tubes together and b) the fact that cardboard tubes are a better breeding ground for bacteria than a plastic tube.

 

Although Tampons are already pretty sketchy as it is - Toxic Shock Syndrome seems like a crazy risk to take when a Silicone cup is so much less dangerous and uncomfortable.

 

It kinda bugs me that people just assume #allwomen use tampons - a good chunk of us HATE them and refuse to wear them - they are drying, the string is annoying and rubs, they leak like mad. Buying a Mooncup was the best thing I ever did. It's revolutionised my lady time experience.

 

The BBC is listening to us:

 

The people fighting pollution with plastic-free periods - BBC News

[AMLinington]

The BBC is listening to us:

 

The people fighting pollution with plastic-free periods - BBC News

 

I literally cannot praise my cup enough. I mentioned it to my sister and the look she gave me was like I had suggested she drink a glass of toilet water. When I was researching pad and tampon-free options (sorry if this is a squicky subject for some, but I feel that it's not something that we as a society should be afraid to discuss openly) there was so little information about what 'certain things' actually LOOKED like that I really do feel that the biggest hurdle to promoting cups (which are a MUCH safer alternative to Tampons!) is one of education - education about your own body and it's basic, necessary functions. Not gonna lie - the first few times I used my cup were a steep learning curve and I learned a LOT about myself, but I quickly came to the realisation that instead of being faced with something scary and weird, it was like opening the door to a room I'd only seen through the keyhole.

 

Cups ARE great, but realistically, they simply CANNOT be a one-stop-shop - they are not really suitable for younger women - especially ones with less 'ahem' experience (if you catch my drift), and nor are they ideal for the entirety of Lady Time - I still find myself needing 'old school' products from time to time, but if you do a bit of simple maths the point becomes abundantly clear:

 

Assume a 5 day 'bleed' with 2 extra days of 'uncertainty' (Lady Time isn't a case of turning a tap on or off - it's a process, and that process doesn't always stop... cleanly).

 

Assume for the first 5 days you wear, say, 3 pads per day on average? Depending on individual circumstances, you might use more than that at some points and less at others. So an average of 3 over a working say is a new pad every couple of hours or so (and lets be realistic, with the cost of these things, we can't afford to throw one away unless we really need to).

 

So 3 per day is 15 'day time' pads.

Plus 5 'overnight' (which are typically twice the size)

 

So that's 20 pads of cotton and plastic and whatever else they are made of. (I'm excluding tampons from this calculation because for the purposes of generalisation a tampon/pad can be considered interchangeable)

 

Then you have your extra 2 days where you might wear a thin liner (basically a sticky-backed bit of absorbent paper) - you'll probably wear what, 2 of these per day? Maybe one 'daytime' pad over night just to be safe?

 

So we're at 21 pads and 4-5 liners.

 

A packet of Bodyform pads is usually £1 in Asda (£2 for night time ones - so it's best to buy in bulk when they're on offer). Depending on brand and type, you get 10-14 pads per pack. Let's split the difference and call it 12.

 

So to cover one cycle, you will need to buy at LEAST 3 packets of pads - at least 2 packs of daytime and one pack of night.

 

One pack of night lasts 2 cycles, so let's call these £1's worth per cycle.

 

So you spend about £3-£4 PER CYCLE on disposable items - and that's taking into account the 'overlap' of packets between cycles and the cost of the liners.

 

365 days in a year, divided by 28 (average cycle) is ~13 lady times per year. So you spend at LEAST £52 a year on 'lady stuff'.

 

A cup is about £20 but it lasts indefinitely. They suggest changing it every couple of years, but let's say you use one for 4 years before replacing it (and they can last a LOT longer too, it just depends on how you look after it), so the cup itself is £5 a year, or about 38p per lady time. Then if you use, say, half a pack of pads per lady time @£1 a pack (generous estimate tbh - I use way less than that), then the cost of lady time for a cup wearer is less than £1 - 38p + 50p.

 

Cups can be worn to sleep in and to swim in, so there are no limitations to using them from a practical perspective and that is 273 less plastic sanitary items going into the environment per year per lady.

 

I am very interested in making my own 'reusable' items for those fringe moments where the cup is just overkill, but I would be MORE interested in an eco-friendly biodegradable option in mainstream supermarkets - I hear they are doing a lot with bamboo fibres these days - a biodegradable bamboo fibre pad would be interesting, but the biggest problem is getting hold of them - ordering them online can be really expensive. I'd like to see them in mainstream supermarkets - I'd like to see a selection of cups in supermarkets and pharmacies too - I had a look in Boots a while ago and I saw them stocked in maybe 1 of the really HUGE stores but in the smaller or more local stores they are nowhere to be seen.

[Andrew_C]

You do realise that 1/2 the men in here are going "YUK!" and the other half are wondering what you are talking about? Right?

[LeMarchand]

You do realise that 1/2 the men in here are going "YUK!" and the other half are wondering what you are talking about? Right?

 

I think I've seen something about this during the advert breaks; it's something to do with that time of the month when ladies like to jump around because they're so happy and it makes a small cupful of blue stuff come out.

[hardtailstar]

You do realise that 1/2 the men in here are going "YUK!" and the other half are wondering what you are talking about? Right?

 

And that 'Lady Time' means a completely different thing where I live!

[AMLinington]

You do realise that 1/2 the men in here are going "YUK!" and the other half are wondering what you are talking about? Right?

 

Of that 50%, how many refer to 'Lady Time' as something pejorative that rhymes with 'Snow Blob Week'? I was just illustrating the scale of @nicholab's observation about the excessive amount of plastic in 'Lady Time' products. I have to admit that I don't know why the individually wrapped pads can't be packaged in a easily recyclable cardboard box - instead they are wrapped in plastic. I assume it has something to do with shipping - the plastic-wrapped packs are all squishy so you can cram more in a box, ergo cheaper shipping.

 

I'd be interested to see the analysis comparing the ecological cost of 'Less packaging, easier shipping, more plastic waste' versus 'less plastic waste, more difficult shipping, recyclable packaging'.

 

I wonder if the current solution has a lower carbon footprint once you take into consideration the cost of producing and processing cardboard vs plastic wrap, then the difference in carbon cost of shipping - smaller packets mean lower shipping 'footprint'. It's possible that from a long-term ecological perspective, the current solution might be less harmful - but I don't know enough to be able to assess that.

 

I think I've seen something about this during the advert breaks; it's something to do with that time of the month when ladies like to jump around because they're so happy and it makes a small cupful of blue stuff come out.

 

It's such a jaunty blue shade! Cartwheels and bicycle rides are mandatory. If you buy the RIGHT brand you'll go from slobbing on the sofa with a straw stuck in a box of wine like a Capri Sun and an industrial-sized bar of Dairy Milk laced with opiates (or is that just me?) to a fun, free-spirited yoga expert wearing skin tight spandex, smiling blindingly with the sun reflecting off your perfectly clear skin.

 

And that 'Lady Time' means a completely different thing where I live!

 

Well now I'm intrigued.... Actually... On second thought....

 

Although moving the topic on, we make the assumption that current plastic-heavy solutions are 'the worst' for the environment - and there are absolutely certainly ultra-low impact options, but I have to question whether on a larger scale, some of the solutions might not be WORSE.

 

Factors to consider: Transport costs and the carbon footprint and effect of logistics - is it better for the environment to transport produce a small distance, package it, then transport those packets in-bulk (Mushrooms or Apple for example), or is it better to have a greater quantity of smaller lorries carrying less produce (such as loose-packed Apples for example). I don't know the answer to that question, but it's worth considering.

 

What about plastics - what proportion of packaging plastic comes from recycled sources? How does the 'cost' of this ecologically speaking compare to deforestation or large-scale tree planting for paper and cardboard production. Is recycling plastic less harmful than recycling paper and card?

 

Is Waste a factor? Does the use of plastics reduce waste? Does using plastic mean greater quantities of viable product reach the consumer, resulting in lower overall manufacture 'costs'? Food especially is something this is likely to apply to.

 

As a nation, I think we've taken well to the 5p bag 'tax' - we all now have stashes of reusable bags, jute bags, and bags made of other materials, but what happens to them when they inevitably wear out? Are we able to put them in for recycling, or are they, too non-recyclable?

 

Many Jute bags are lined with plastic anyway.

 

I like the idea of making better choices to lessen my own impact on the environment, but real change can never happen until it becomes a priority all the way up the chain. Supermarket packaging and stock choices affect the choices we are able to make (for example). I had this conversation with LeHusband last night over the Tetra-paks of Passata:

 

Me: We're out of Passata. When we go shopping next we really ought to look for Passata in tins or glass bottles. It's better for the environment. We can't recycle these tetra-paks.

 

LeHusband: I'm not being funny, love, but we buy those because they are cheaper. We can't afford the fancy &$%£ in glass bottles.

 

Me: We already buy tinned tomatoes - the tins are recyclable, if we buy a big glass jar of passata we can split it and freeze it.

LeHusband: If we did that with everything we'd never have enough freezer space!

 

Which for me raises a couple of issues that this thread has made me think about a lot:

 

1) The choices we make on an individual scale are governed 50% by what we can afford and 50% by the place we are buying them from. If there was a whole aisle of Passata and all containers cost exactly the same per 100ml, we would be able to make our choices based on other factors - like how recyclable the packaging is, or how eco-friendly the manufacturer is.

 

2) We don't have a glass collection where I live. All our glass bottles go outside into a plastic bin with holes drilled in it until we have enough to justify the 30 minutes it will take to queue to get into the tip and go to the bottle bank. This does not exactly encourage me to make better packaging choices. Which takes me back to what I said about changes having to be systemic - local governments have to support these changes with schemes like glass collections etc, which in turn make better choices more sustainable long-term.

 

3) Local recycling schemes vary MASSIVELY in terms of what they will and won't take. The rules are so complicated that half the time people just ignore them and think 'it's plastic, it's recyclable' then the whole load ends up in landfill because the waste isn't being sorted.

 

3a) WHY are recycling rules so complicated?

 

4) How can you separate the recyclable components of a thing from the non-recyclable components when they are fused together?

Edited May 1, 2018 by AMLinington

[Arthur]

Plastic Bag Found at the Bottom of World's Deepest Ocean Trench

 

The Mariana Trench—the deepest point in the ocean—extends nearly 36,000 feet down in a remote part of the Pacific Ocean. But if you thought the trench could escape the global onslaught of plastics pollution, you would be wrong.

 

A recent study revealed that a plastic bag, like the kind given away at grocery stores, is now the deepest known piece of plastic trash, found at a depth of 36,000 feet inside the Mariana Trench. Scientists found it by looking through the Deep-Sea Debris Database, a collection of photos and videos taken from 5,010 dives over the past 30 years that was recently made public.

 

Of the classifiable debris logged in the database, plastic was the most prevalent, and plastic bags in particular made up the greatest source of plastic trash. Other debris came from material like rubber, metal, wood, and cloth, and some is yet to be classified.

 

Most of the plastic—a whopping 89 percent—was the type of plastic that is used once and then thrown away, like a plastic water bottle or disposable utensil.

 

[...]

 

Where did the plastic come from?

The new study is just one among many showing just how prevalent plastic pollution has become worldwide. Single-use plastics are virtually everywhere, and they may take hundreds of years or more to break down once in the wild.

 

Last February, a separate study showed that the Mariana Trench has higher levels of overall pollution in certain regions than some of the most polluted rivers in China. The study's authors theorized that the chemical pollutants in the trench may have come in part from the breakdown of plastic in the water column.

 

Plastic has recently become a greater focus of the environmental movement, being featured prominently this past Earth Day, for example. While plastic can enter the ocean directly, such as trash blown from a beach or discarded from ships, a study published in 2017 found that most of it is flowing into the sea from 10 rivers that run through heavily populated regions.

[elsiegee40]

Plastic Bag Found at the Bottom of World's Deepest Ocean Trench

 

Depressing

[AMLinington]

Depressing

 

It is depressing, but no less depressing than all the 'signpost' corpses on the side of Mount Everest. They aren't going anywhere either. There are countless discarded Oxygen cylinders and plastic-related debris up there too. :-(

 

On the subject of plastic utensils, I was deeply annoyed by my Mother-in-Law at the weekend. We had a small family party for LeHusband's 40th birthday and she bought paper AND plastic disposable plates and plastic cutlery. When I suggested that we put all the plastic and cardboard into the recycle bin she said 'Oh I can't be bothered with that' and dumped it all into a black bag. I said 'aren't you going to wash and reuse the plastic spoons?'. The answer was a resounding no. So then I said 'we could put them in the recycle bin - it's better for the environment' and her response was something along the lines of 'I don't care about all that'. I despair. But I can't do much about it because I can't criticise my MIL in her own house in front of her own family. I can only make better environmentally conscious choices in my own life.

 

Speaking of which - SUCCESS on the 'Passata in a glass bottle front'. Something of what I said obviously make it into LeHusband's brain - he brought home Passata in a glass bottle when he last stopped by the supermarket on his way home.

 

I have also reached the conclusion that it is foolhardy to invest in any kind of vehicle from here on out that relies exclusively on fossil fuels. It's a finite resource. Over the next 10-20 years, I think the sensible choice is to invest in a Hybrid vehicle until battery technology in electric cars improves. Ideally, I'd like there to be a hybrid vehicle that runs on that 'recycled cooking oil' technology and Electric. Cooking oil is much more sustainable (although on a massive scale, the demand would far outstrip the supply so the electric side of things would need to take centre stage). Our next car purchase in the next 2-5 years is going to be a hybrid. I'm currently eyeing up the Ioniq. It's purdy.

[eyetea]

Had fish and chips for tea last night as rushed with life at the moment. Nice big signage saying they've moved over to biodegradable boxes which is great, but they still have plastic forks!

[Achandler]

As Tesco's would say Every Little Helps! They might not have done their forks yet but at least they are thinking about it.

[eyetea]

As Tesco's would say Every Little Helps! They might not have done their forks yet but at least they are thinking about it.

Definitely agree, you have to start from somewhere!

[AMLinington]

Had fish and chips for tea last night as rushed with life at the moment. Nice big signage saying they've moved over to biodegradable boxes which is great, but they still have plastic forks!

 

Disappointing. Nothing quite like the taste of chip-shop-chips eaten with one of those little wooden forks!!! It's an institution!

 

I don't mind plastic cutlery if I knew 100% whether it can be recycled via the recycle bin or not.

 

It also really annoys me that our local recycling scheme refuses to take plastic meat trays - even if we washed them! I understand why, but it's a huge amount of plastic that could easily be recycled.

 

Still, one step at a time and all that.

[bossman]

You do realise that 1/2 the men in here are going "YUK!" and the other half are wondering what you are talking about? Right?

 

I'm nearly 60 years of age bud and i know exactly what this is and I for one would like to praise @AMLinington for bringing the cup to the fore....well done you...

 

Too many people are far too squeamish when talking about the "Female Menstrual Cycle" even women and some men are downright ignorant on this subject...

 

Big up to you @AMLinington.......

[Arthur]

Little green bag: Morrisons revives paper in war on plastic

 

Morrisons is reviving traditional brown paper bags for loose fresh fruit and vegetables, in a move it says will prevent 150m small plastic bags from being used every year.

 

The paper bags are being rolled out from Monday and will be in all of the supermarket chain’s 493 stores by the end of the summer. Made from 100% recyclable paper, they have a see-though paper strip to help shoppers and staff identify the produce inside.

 

The move is in response to growing public concern about the huge volumes of plastic rubbish. Morrisons was a launch signatory to the UK Plastics Pact, an industry initiative that aims to reduce the use of single-use plastics and avoidable plastic waste.

 

“We’ve listened to customers’ concerns about using plastic bags for fruit and vegetables and that is why we are bringing back paper bags,” said Drew Kirk, a produce director at the supermarket.

 

Customers can now also bring their own containers to Morrisons butchers and fishmongers counters, with the supermarket offering 100 loyalty card points as an incentive.

[elsiegee40]

Little green bag: Morrisons revives paper in war on plastic

Excellent! I am the one that takes the paper mushroom bags in preference to the plastic vegetable bags

[hardtailstar]

Little green bag: Morrisons revives paper in war on plastic

 

Im sure Co-op do this too.

[AMLinington]

Excellent! I am the one that takes the paper mushroom bags in preference to the plastic vegetable bags

 

LOL Me too.

 

Little green bag: Morrisons revives paper in war on plastic

 

This is excellent news - I've been saying for AGES how if places like Primark can use paper bags, why aren't they more widespread? Paper bags are common in America so it's not like there isn't a precedent. It really annoys me that clothes shops in particular (looking at you M&S) aren't already using paper bags.