IPad one 2 one and ALL staff

[oapscarface]

Are ipad screens big enough for teachers to create work on? Most teachers seem to love their ipads but also need a laptop or PC to create content for lessons and to analyse data.

 

I did raise this when it became clear that financially we can’t have Teacher PCs, Teacher Laptops and an iPad, in many of our schools we have both laptops and desktops in classrooms for teachers which has always been a frustration of mine.

 

The conclusion was indeed that we offer up two alternatives for staff, both iPad Pros, 12.9” will be the default and 10.9” will be an option, some depts such as PE and Drama expressed more interest in the smaller ones, we then discussed the problems of having no mouse, so the (bloomin expensive) pencil is being discussed and will be trialled to see if it’s ok as a mouse replacement.

 

It’s clear that for this to work well students and teachers need keyboards, we accept that most students will be fine with a screen keyboard but for lengthy use a keyboard would be preferable. Problem is that then leads to a possible further issue. Up to 1500 Bluetooth keyboards in one site. If anybody has any experience of that, I’d love to hear!

[oapscarface]

...hmmm... you would need an internet connection to use MS office apps...probably others too....not least of all because you would almost certainly decide to store user data in the cloud - rather than locally on a device where is can be vulnerable...loss/breakage of device...resets...etc.

 

As with every one 2 one solution there are issues, it’s a question of looking at all the issues and finding the device that ticks the necessary boxes. My blog shows my plus and minus scores and what criteria I used (from a technical standpoint) to recommend iPads.

 

We’re an Office 365 trust, OneDrive can have offline files and we’ll be encouraging people to use that for offline use of home folder data, obviously 1TB of OneDrive data can’t be synced so people will have to be selective, a training issue.

 

Word/Excel/Etc as others have said will work fine for what we need, offline. Most apps don’t require an internet connection. MDM, yes, that will need cloud but the settings are stored locally so only changes won’t take effect until the device has connectivity again.

 

I suspect the no internet issue will be a small minority, a recent letter sent to parents about parental coms being paperless and only via email/apps showed that very few people don’t have internet at home.

[NB9457]

I did raise this when it became clear that financially we can’t have Teacher PCs, Teacher Laptops and an iPad, in many of our schools we have both laptops and desktops in classrooms for teachers which has always been a frustration of mine.

 

The conclusion was indeed that we offer up two alternatives for staff, both iPad Pros, 12.9” will be the default and 10.9” will be an option, some depts such as PE and Drama expressed more interest in the smaller ones, we then discussed the problems of having no mouse, so the (bloomin expensive) pencil is being discussed and will be trialled to see if it’s ok as a mouse replacement.

 

It’s clear that for this to work well students and teachers need keyboards, we accept that most students will be fine with a screen keyboard but for lengthy use a keyboard would be preferable. Problem is that then leads to a possible further issue. Up to 1500 Bluetooth keyboards in one site. If anybody has any experience of that, I’d love to hear!

 

Not to be funny, but you can easily buy in a good laptop AND desktop PC less than the cost of one iPad pro 12.9", plus pencil, plus keyboard and still have change.

[maark]

Don't want to be too negative - appreciate what the school is trying to do.

Possible stumbling blocks - cost - what is the lifespan of an ipad or ipad pro? Guessing three years before apple stop you installing latest ios and apps.

In our area a lot of families don't have internet access so this would be a consideration - does the school support families that can't afford it?

[3s-gtech]

Don't want to be too negative - appreciate what the school is trying to do.

Possible stumbling blocks - cost - what is the lifespan of an ipad or ipad pro? Guessing three years before apple stop you installing latest ios and apps.

In our area a lot of families don't have internet access so this would be a consideration - does the school support families that can't afford it?

 

Apple are currently operating at around the five year mark for their devices, unless you were one of the schools that bought in 'cheap' iPad 2s and Minis when they were being flogged by some resellers.

[atcoates]

Even our Ipads that are stuck on 9.3 as still going strong.

[Brimstone]

I did raise this when it became clear that financially we can’t have Teacher PCs, Teacher Laptops and an iPad, in many of our schools we have both laptops and desktops in classrooms for teachers which has always been a frustration of mine.

 

The conclusion was indeed that we offer up two alternatives for staff, both iPad Pros, 12.9” will be the default and 10.9” will be an option, some depts such as PE and Drama expressed more interest in the smaller ones, we then discussed the problems of having no mouse, so the (bloomin expensive) pencil is being discussed and will be trialled to see if it’s ok as a mouse replacement.

 

It’s clear that for this to work well students and teachers need keyboards, we accept that most students will be fine with a screen keyboard but for lengthy use a keyboard would be preferable. Problem is that then leads to a possible further issue. Up to 1500 Bluetooth keyboards in one site. If anybody has any experience of that, I’d love to hear!

 

There are lots of 1:1 iPad school that looked at Bluetooth keyboards, many of them found that students and teachers didn't want have to carry around an extra devices and ditched them.

 

From my own experience, the Met Police rolled out 1500 x iPad Mini's to officers, after some pilots they decided they did not need a BT keyboard.

 

Before you spend any money of these I would strongly suggest to speak to other 1:1 schools about their experience with BT keyboard

[oapscarface]

Don't want to be too negative - appreciate what the school is trying to do.

Possible stumbling blocks - cost - what is the lifespan of an ipad or ipad pro? Guessing three years before apple stop you installing latest ios and apps.

In our area a lot of families don't have internet access so this would be a consideration - does the school support families that can't afford it?

 

No, not at all, I need as many peoples help and questions as I can get, I have a VERY long list of issues which is getting to a point of being pretty much complete, I'm not getting many more questions. No answer mind!

 

We have banked on 3 year rolling replacement yes for the reasons you say, one of the advantages of iPads is they hold their value so lease costs are quite favorable, you are in effect paying the depreciation rather than the overall cost as the device (unlike a PC) has a value still after 3 years.

 

We're discussing options for internet, 4g dongles is one such option but we're not sure where we stand on filtering if we are providing the technology.

[Katy]

We're discussing options for internet, 4g dongles is one such option but we're not sure where we stand on filtering if we are providing the technology.

If your MDM supports it you can enable a setting "Global HTTP proxy" and point it at your filtering system, would mean making the filtering externally accessible and would also mean all data usage from the ipads will always use your connection (in and back out again if they are off site) but it's a possible solution if you have to provide filtering on them.

[fiza]

Will be interesting to see progress. The last well publicised "paper free" ipad school, Essa Academy? failed hard.

I tried searching for Essa Academy but I can't find anything about the failure. Can you point me towards any articles please?

 

Edit : Scratch that...I just read the first few posts in this thread, so its not Essa Academy.

Edited December 5, 2017 by fiza

[theeggmaster]

My advice would be to trial different devices and see what works best for your school and their current situation.

 

Just throwing the Chromebook hat back into the ring. You can run Android apps on lots of models of Chromebooks now, including cheaper ones like the Viglen 11, which is designed for education. You can also get convertible ones that therefore can act as a tablet, but you can do more serious work by flipping the keyboard out. You can run the mobile versions of Office, and use the Android RDP app to get to SIMS (if you have a Remote Desktop/RemoteApp installation).

 

We have some iPads with Bluetooth keyboards, but they are used in our SEN department mainly. They do like them.

Edited December 5, 2017 by theeggmaster

[oapscarface]

Are computers still not needed to deliver lessons on coding/office tasks/website design and learning another OS? If the school offers any form of ICT/Computing GCSE, would they not be needed at all for this? What about online exams?

 

Here we a re looking to use a mixtures of OSes including Linux, Windows, macOS, iOS and Chrome OS, exposing the students to different platforms in my opinion is good.

 

Also, in the real world it's becoming apparent students are knowing less and less about basic computing and computing tasks (is it the early millenium again?!), whilst they may not have a PC at home and I agree they are very familar with tablet devices and this can be in turn used to enhance their education, the likeliness is if they ever get a job, they will at some point need to use a desktop PC and office suite as part of that job.

 

We are seeing more and more children come from primary and not having properly used desktops before and again, day to at home, we probably don't need them, but when preparing them for the real world at getting them ready to go onto further education/jobs, surely something as basic as being able to use word, copy and paste, folder structures should be basic knowledge?

 

Absolutely 100% agree with this! I have made this comment on more than one occasion and it got to a point where everybody knew I was going to say it so it just became a joke. I’m from the commercial world and I have yet to see a world where a tablet in any form is anything more than an ‘extra’ device. My blog does cover this. Whether people like it or not Windows is the tool of choice in the big bad world, not Apple, not iPads. I am very worried about this aspect and will ensure that at least some IT rooms with PCs in them remain!

[synaesthesia]

I tried searching for Essa Academy but I can't find anything about the failure. Can you point me towards any articles please?

 

Edit : Scratch that...I just read the first few posts in this thread, so its not Essa Academy.

 

My google-fu is failing me as much as my own ailing memory. I *know* such a paperless establishment went up the swanny, and the name Essa keeps coming up however evidence clearly states otherwise! I'm deleting my original comment anyway as there's no slight intended on any one site.

[oapscarface]

Not to be funny, but you can easily buy in a good laptop AND desktop PC less than the cost of one iPad pro 12.9", plus pencil, plus keyboard and still have change.

 

Can’t argue with you there, however (and I’m in no way Apple man, I have a Surface, love it, if the battery life were better I’d be pushing these on all users) what they can’t do is be easily portable around the room, have the app eco system, have the battery life, imagine managing 6000 Windows PCs for staff and students to work anywhere, deploying programs to them with the imediacy that an Apple or Android device can.

 

The staff need a device that’s the same as the students, you could argue for a normal iPad and a laptop for staff but that’s like saying, here you go students, use that for your work, we can’t so we’re going to have laptops as well, but you’ll manage!

 

Microsoft need to up their game when it comes to management/app deployment, SCCM (we use it across our 2500 or so devices ATM) is a beast and deploying one program takes days of packaging and testing and then weeks to deploy, especially across that many machines. I believe MS are getting there, Windows 10S is a move in the right direction, Microsoft 365 and Intune could be the move MS need to catch up but for me, I need to make a decision right now and they’re just not ready.

 

IOS (love it or hate it) is simple to manage, support and deploy.

[Sheridan]

Just out of curiosity what would be your refresh policy on this? I proposed ipads for all staff here and SMT could just about manage the cost, but when I told them about replacing them every 3 years they nearly fainted!

[oapscarface]

Just out of curiosity what would be your refresh policy on this? I proposed ipads for all staff here and SMT could just about manage the cost, but when I told them about replacing them every 3 years they nearly fainted!

 

3 years rolling replacement, I guess I have the benefit of having SMT on board as they proposed the project and Apple have backed me up on that so there’s been little argument. TBF I’m not sure the Finance Director is as happy about the idea as SMT have been.

 

The CEO is essentially pushing this, he’s been the main instigator. His view is that (and this hasn’t been the case for the last 5 years) IT is here to stay, computers/tablets/tinerweb it all needs to be embraced as part of learning, it should be an integral part of learning and not a supplementary part, it’s no longer a subject of it’s own (that’s now computer science) but part of daily life, we all use technology in some form.

 

With that in mind his view is that we need to invest in IT, not keep pushing it under the carpet and hoping it’ll go away as it won’t, if we don’t do this now we run the risk of the investment needing to be more in the future or worse, being left behind completely.

 

There are of course alternative views to this and that good teaching should not require technology and technology, as I have said earlier, in its self will never make a bad teacher a good teacher.

[Brimstone]

My google-fu is failing me as much as my own ailing memory. I *know* such a paperless establishment went up the swanny, and the name Essa keeps coming up however evidence clearly states otherwise! I'm deleting my original comment anyway as there's no slight intended on any one site.

 

Essa were never a paperless school, this is not about doing away with reading and writing on paper, however all the work is saved in a digital format on the iPad and sent to the teacher who then marks it on his/her iPad.

 

Essa have saved thousands in printing costs and reduced the number of printers they have, they create their own learning materials so have also saved on costs of new text books.

 

Have a read of the link below, maybe some people in this thread need to wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to effective use of technology in education.

 

http://www.kidsandyouth.com/pdf/2015%20Case%20Studies/Longitudinal%20Schools/FK%26Y%20ESSA%20Academy%20Profile%20and%20Case%20Study.pdf

[Brimstone]

Absolutely 100% agree with this! I have made this comment on more than one occasion and it got to a point where everybody knew I was going to say it so it just became a joke. I’m from the commercial world and I have yet to see a world where a tablet in any form is anything more than an ‘extra’ device. My blog does cover this. Whether people like it or not Windows is the tool of choice in the big bad world, not Apple, not iPads. I am very worried about this aspect and will ensure that at least some IT rooms with PCs in them remain!

These big bad companies would strongly disagree with you....

 

https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/19/jamf-ibm-mac-deployment/

https://www.cultofmac.com/498564/today-in-apple-history-ipad-takes-to-the-skies-with-united-airlines/

https://www.techworld.com/news/developers/british-gas-puts-salesforce-onto-apple-ipads-for-field-workers-3597272/

https://thefinancialbrand.com/26500/barclays-bank-ipads-sales-app-branch-employees/

 

This doesn't include the thousands being bought by the NHS, The Police and Medical industries.....

 

I could give you pages more of enterprises using iPads....

[Brimstone]

3 years rolling replacement, I guess I have the benefit of having SMT on board as they proposed the project and Apple have backed me up on that so there’s been little argument. TBF I’m not sure the Finance Director is as happy about the idea as SMT have been.

 

The CEO is essentially pushing this, he’s been the main instigator. His view is that (and this hasn’t been the case for the last 5 years) IT is here to stay, computers/tablets/tinerweb it all needs to be embraced as part of learning, it should be an integral part of learning and not a supplementary part, it’s no longer a subject of it’s own (that’s now computer science) but part of daily life, we all use technology in some form.

 

With that in mind his view is that we need to invest in IT, not keep pushing it under the carpet and hoping it’ll go away as it won’t, if we don’t do this now we run the risk of the investment needing to be more in the future or worse, being left behind completely.

 

There are of course alternative views to this and that good teaching should not require technology and technology, as I have said earlier, in its self will never make a bad teacher a good teacher.

 

Nice to hear a leader taking ownership of a large project like this, all good points made about education getting to grips with the real world

[NB9457]

These big bad companies would strongly disagree with you....

 

https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/19/jamf-ibm-mac-deployment/

https://www.cultofmac.com/498564/today-in-apple-history-ipad-takes-to-the-skies-with-united-airlines/

https://www.techworld.com/news/developers/british-gas-puts-salesforce-onto-apple-ipads-for-field-workers-3597272/

https://thefinancialbrand.com/26500/barclays-bank-ipads-sales-app-branch-employees/

 

This doesn't include the thousands being bought by the NHS, The Police and Medical industries.....

 

I could give you pages more of enterprises using iPads....

 

Just the same argument for Windows, Linux Android and Chrome OS, too. We can all go on Google and have the internet tell us what we want it to. There's no argument that Windows currently has the biggest market share, but that's not to say we shouldn't be exposing students to as many of these OSes as possible. Mobile devices are definitely becoming more prevalent and they're great, yet the need for a desktop will still be around for a while, especially in data, office, design jobs etc, I just don't believe as a school, it should be one system. I've worked at a school where we had Chrome OS, Windows, Linux, Mac OS Android and iOS all running together and that worked great, in fact it wasn't far off 1:1 when I left (in regards to class sets).

[atcoates]

If Ipads tick all their boxes then good luck to them, If Google tick all their boxes good luck to them. The important thing is that the students and teachers needs are being met. My schools choose whatever they want and it's my job to make it work for them. Ultimately teaching and learning should be the number one priority in any choice made.

[Sheridan]

It is nice to see a positive drive from SMT though, especially as this is a big commitment for the future.

[oapscarface]

It is nice to see a positive drive from SMT though, especially as this is a big commitment for the future.

 

Absolutely, I wouldn’t dream of suggesting this personally, not without SMT buy in. We’ll see how we go, I’ll keep my blog up to date as best I can. Pilot iPads arrived today and MDM (JAMF) is being setup ready for us by Monday.

 

Pilot runs until Easter with Apple and a training company heavily involved, we have apple providing initial one 2 one training with out ‘digital champions’ in January, they’ll then start the process of getting staff trained ready for a pilot student group at the end of January.

[Rob_D]

As you said you were already using Office 365, I'm surprised you didn't go for intune as your MDM?

It would be good to see some of the thought process that went into your MDM choice.

[oapscarface]

As you said you were already using Office 365, I'm surprised you didn't go for intune as your MDM?

It would be good to see some of the thought process that went into your MDM choice.

I will get my MDM review sorted once I've got access to JAMF, they're being a nightmare ATM as they want to charge £700 to set up the profiles and stuff which we can do ourselves. As for Intune, nobody we have visited has looked at it, we did have a trial to test with Windows 10S and it looked from an iOS point of view to be massively limited, perhaps not surprisingly, personally I wouldn't touch InTune for iOS management for now, it's that limited and as for Zero Day (lastest iOS) support, I suspect it'll never have that.