Weaning myself off Google (personal stuff, not work)

[jthompson]

For me, it's probably more a case of trying to avoid potential disadvantages, like a health issue affecting my insurance premiums, or my personal details being poorly handled by unknown companies, leading to identity theft.

The advantages of me having no privacy are tilted more towards other parties (e.g. Google) than towards me.

[spacebar]

What advantages does having privacy give you?

 

Have you been kidnapped and taken to live in a welsh village recently?

 

Privacy, I happen to value it. I have no interest in Google services any longer. I used to use Youtube in the old days. Before it was Google.

 

The fact is that these companies collect vast amounts of data about you, and then store it in some fashion (directly or indirectly, it is stored somewhere by the company or a third party). That isn't so much a problem now, but it would be if someone was in power who didn't like you very much. And the way things are going, I don't suspect this will be too far away. But who knows. It might never happen.

 

But aside from that, I just value privacy, there doesn't have to be a negative outcome, I am just a private person, and the advantage it gives me is that I value my privacy and it gives me peace of mind when I can achieve it. Why do you (not you specifically, but the average person) input your whole life onto the internet in the modern world? some people think its odd when you don't exist online, I love it.

Edited November 26, 2017 by spacebar

[enjay]

The fact is that these companies collect vast amounts of data about you, and then store it in some fashion (directly or indirectly, it is stored somewhere by the company or a third party). That isn't so much a problem now, but it would be if someone was in power who didn't like you very much. And the way things are going, I don't suspect this will be too far away. But who knows. It might never happen.

 

Those are my concerns too. I don't value privacy for privacy's sake, but I do have concerns about what could happen if this data were shared and aggregated. I quite like that Google know roughly where I live and work, and can advise me about traffic delays. I don't mind them knowing I search for cycling related things and some medical issues; I would, however, have a problem if this resulted in the insurance for my bike going up because of a medical condition which the insurance company haven't asked me about and might not even be mine anyway.

 

Google's data on me is largely anonymous in itself, but it wouldn't take much to uniquely identify me based on Google's knowledge of my home and work postcodes, alongside some data from HMRC or my school's payroll company.

[mavhc]

But loads of people have had all their data stolen, and they seem fine.

 

What if my insurance goes down because they kick out all the high risk people? A better version of "x only insurance" companies.

 

Pity companies don't know more about me, then they could show me better, and therefore fewer, ads, for things I'd actually want, saving me time and money.

[LeMarchand]

What if my insurance goes down because they kick out all the high risk people? A better version of "x only insurance" companies.

 

:flypig:

 

Next you'll be suggesting that all those people and companies using loopholes to avoid paying tax will start playing fair.

 

[mavhc]

:flypig:

 

Next you'll be suggesting that all those people and companies using loopholes to avoid paying tax will start playing fair.

 

 

Both are just competition, switch to another provider/country, get a cheaper product/tax bill

[CAM]

I don't find Google all that smart TBH. LOUD NOTIFICATION THERE ARE DELAYS ON YOUR COMMUTE! Thanks Google,really handy when I am just driving up to the traffic jam and can't look at my phone until I am already at my destination and delayed by said traffic. BUT THERE ARE DELAYS NEARBY! So handy in my office at 10am eh? THIS PERSON POSTED SOMETHING RUBBISH ON YOUTUBE LOOK AT IT! I give up....

[jthompson]

One of the things I keep coming back to on the privacy front is that whatever steps I take as an individual, there's a larger picture of me out there composed of my acquaintances' online presence, which I have very little agency over.

I've decided to start using ProtonMail (zero-access encryption, based in Switzerland) and start phasing out my use of Gmail, but the number of emails I'll exchange in complete privacy is going to be near zero. For all the messages safely stored for me in ProtonMail, there'll be copies of those in other people's inboxes, most probably in an ad-supported free service from a big tech company, based in the US or another of the Five Eyes countries.

 

Similarly for SMS messaging. I could use Silence messenger (a fork of Signal) to give the possibility of encrypting the body of SMS/MMS messages, but only if the recipients are also using Silence messenger. I could ask my OH to use it, but then her car's BT won't read out messages when she's driving, which would be a deal-breaker. Similarly, Signal would need my friends using it, which isn't a realistic prospect.

 

I could deactivate my social media accounts, but they'll already have plenty of information about what my friends and family are doing, where they've been, pictures they've posted with me in them, etc.

 

All that being said, I still feel better about moving my email out of Gmail to somewhere private, even if it's largely a futile exercise in pursuit of, well, something I can't really specify.

 

Another thing that I keep coming back to is the joke about two polar explorers being attacked by a polar bear. A polar bear is charging at their tent and one starts putting on his boots. The second explorer says "What are you doing?? You'll never outrun it!", to which the reply is "I don't need to outrun it, I only need to outrun you".

If something comes along which means that having some privacy does give an advantage, at least I'll be better off than if I'd given it all away.

[DrPopkorne]

I happen to be very Google oriented. I grew up in the age where they took over Yahoo for page visits and became their own term 'Google it'. Then maps and Earth came out and eventually it became just the norm. I have been using an Android phone since I had a smartphone and most of my e-mails go to a Google account. Chrome is my go-to browser and my current phone is actually a Pixel. At work we are now checking out Chromebooks and who knows it might end up becoming the norm here too.

 

It's not until recently I thought it sounded very distopian the idea that a business can have so much control and influence over people and business. I recently discovered the timeline feature of Google Maps and it sent a bit of a chill down my spine. What it does is give you a timelapse of your day pinned on the map. Because I've used Android (and maps) for the past 7 years or so you can literally see where I've been, what I've been doing every day of my life. Yes it was cool but knowing that Google has this data without me even knowing it would makes me sure there will be so much more unknown data like this. The timeline feature hasn't been out as long as the location data they've collected on me.

 

I'm starting to get loads of notifications throughout the day asking if I'd like to make a review for places I've just been in and it honestly does feel like it's all for Google rather than myself. The once-intuitive Google screen on my phone used to send me useful news based on my browsing history but now I get spam due to the fact I walk past a sports shop every day to work and therefore must be interested in tennis shoes. It all seems like I've paid for a device / chosen to use a certain service just to be used for ad data. And sure, it is all nice to an extent but 2017 like most things it seems like the whole purpose was to tailor adverts for ourselves rather than make a feed based on interest.

 

I am honestly not one of these privacy-conscious consumer however I do not like the direction Google has been going in this past year.

Edited November 27, 2017 by DrPopkorne

[enjay]

You can turn the map (and traffic) notifications off. Obviously this doesn't stop Google knowing you walk past a sports shop and potentially giving your adverts a sporty lean, but it does take it out of your face.

[mavhc]

Yeah, they've been a bit pushy with maps reviews etc, but you do get badges! Yeah, don't really care, give me free Drive storage like before.

 

If you don't want google reading your mail just use pgp.

 

Also stop subscribing to rubbish people on youtube, and turn down the notification volume.

 

Surely when you use SMS even if it's encrypted there's loads of metadata to be worried about, better to use IP based messaging via TOR

[jthompson]

Surely when you use SMS even if it's encrypted there's loads of metadata to be worried about, better to use IP based messaging via TOR

 

This is true, but at least the body of the messages would be encrypted.

 

IP based messaging is all well and good, but oftentimes SMS proves more robust and reliable. Especially when most of the day my phone is needing to be connected to WiFi for work, where things like proxies, firewalls and filtering can break connectivity for messaging apps.

[mavhc]

https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/27/facebook-ai-suicide-prevention/

[flyinghaggis]

It's not until recently I thought it sounded very distopian the idea that a business can have so much control and influence over people and business. I recently discovered the timeline feature of Google Maps and it sent a bit of a chill down my spine. What it does is give you a timelapse of your day pinned on the map. Because I've used Android (and maps) for the past 7 years or so you can literally see where I've been, what I've been doing every day of my life. Yes it was cool but knowing that Google has this data without me even knowing it would makes me sure there will be so much more unknown data like this. The timeline feature hasn't been out as long as the location data they've collected on me.

 

Yeah, the Google timeline brings it into very sharp focus just how much information they actually have on everyone. I think concerns regarding just how much information these tech companies hold about us are perfectly legitimate. At the end of the day a private US based company having access to all that information about individuals all over the globe seems entirely inappropriate. Especially when you think about just how much of that data is held by such a small number of incredibly large and powerful companies like Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, etc.

 

The issue at the end of the day as others say is that giving up some of your privacy can quite literally make a huge difference to your own productivity and being able to keep on top of things. Being IT experts I'm sure we could all build our own servers/connections, run open source software and OS's on our laptops, tablets and phones. However all of that comes with a huge overhead in terms of the time to manage and update it. As others have said it's just easier and outright more convenient to have all of your services/data like files, mail, calendars, apps, etc within a single ecosystem maintained and continuously updated/improved by a vendor.

 

Maybe it'll change in future but as of right now everyone pretty much has to make a Faustian pact with either Apple or Google!

 

Pick a poison.............

Edited November 27, 2017 by flyinghaggis

[mavhc]

Pick a poison that's never killed anyone, and a few people say might be bad in the future, but so far it's only brought tremendous advantages?

[enjay]

Pick a poison that's never killed anyone, and a few people say might be bad in the future, but so far it's only brought tremendous advantages?

 

That's sort of where I come down in this too. Yes, the data Google have could be misused especially if someone else were to get hold of it and aggregate it with other data, BUT... this is only a "what if..." and would probably require some serious skills to get all that data from Google in a coherent and usable format, get the data from HMRC in a coherent and readable format, then crunch it all together and pass it on to another company who would do their unscrupulous things with it - all without being detected at any stage. So, we're probably talking hacking at a government-sanctioned level. Personally, I don't believe the UK government are out to spy on me in that way (and let's be honest, nor do I think the current government have the organisational capability to do it even if they wanted to!) and I don't see the Russian government are that interested in me as an individual. So, I am going to keep letting Big IT take the data I choose to give them and use it in ways that can make my life easier.

 

Pick a poison that's never killed anyone, and a few people say might be bad in the future, but so far it's only brought tremendous advantages?

Of course, that's probably what doctors were saying in the 1950s while prescribing thalidomide to expectant mothers who had morning sickness...

[jthompson]

Perhaps deep down I just want to know that it's possible to not be heavily reliant on Google's services.

[mavhc]

Just don't use any computers.

 

Or better, use them, know what's possible, and make sure you educate those in power ways to actually fix the issues, not just screw it up with things like a Cookie Law.

[arh1a]

I've moved to Android now from WM10 and was surprised by how much data was being collected in such a short period of time owning a Pixel 2 (stock Android is great but probably set to collect even more info as default).

 

I didn't really see it as much of a problem though as I don't really need the features that need all this data collected so just logged into my Google Account and turned off everything I don't want, this included uninstalling/disabling apps on the phone I don't need. Since then every time I login to my Google account or use any apps no data is being collected to my knowledge (probably still some hidden data being collected that I cant see but I guess that's to be expected).

 

So what I took from this is Google do let you take control of the data that is collected but only if people choose to dig deep into the app settings and account which I appreciate the average user would not. But to be fair to them ignorance is bliss right?

Edited November 28, 2017 by arh1a

[ColinP]

im like you i dont like all this intrusion, especaily all the listening assistants like alexa. i also lie on alot of online accountsthat i setup.

 

one thing ive just started to do is use a VPN on all my personal devices.

 

Like the post above i just diched my WM10 phone for an s8 and was supprised how much data was collected...

[mavhc]

Why don't you like the listening assistants? Surely you want an iphone, as Apple are the ones who say they don't collect data, plus they're more secure in general.

[tom1]

Why don't you like the listening assistants? Surely you want an iphone, as Apple are the ones who say they don't collect data, plus they're more secure in general.

But soooo buggy!

Edited November 29, 2017 by tom1

[jthompson]

One interesting thing I've discovered whilst fiddling about with ProtonMail is that Facebook lets you use PGP for all emails that they send you. You can add your public certificate to your Facebook profile, and then enable encrypted notification emails.

 

That obviously has only a limited impact on improving your privacy, since it changes nothing about what Facebook themselves are able to tell gather on you, but I thought it was quite a neat little feature nevertheless.

 

I was also glad to discover that ProtonMail, as well as allowing multiple aliases and use of custom domains, also support +aliases, like Gmail.

[Priscilla110]

I can never give up Google. I resigned to fall in love with it in the rest of my life..

[DrPopkorne]

[h=1]Google faces mass legal action in UK over data snooping in the UK[/h]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42166089