What happened to the "We are opting Out" Thread

[Grommit]

It seems to have vanished ?

[Squelch]

Indeed, I was subscribed to it.

[webman]

It's a conspiracy!

[CyberNerd]

It's a conspiracy!

 

I think RM infiltrated a long time ago

[webman]

Original URL was http://www.edugeek.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16646

 

Anybody got in their cache?

[eejit]

The truth is out there.

 

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/adc/10230650A~Fox-Mulder-Dana-Scully-Posters.jpg

[kmount]

Thats a good picture of Sulky, cheers.

[localzuk]

This is indeed strange!!

[webman]

Trust No One.

 

[Grommit]

This was a very very important thread as they were saying that there is an opt out if you have a strong enough business case...

[GrumbleDook]

I'll investigate it ... nothing has been reported as removed by a mod or an admin.

 

It is a *very* important thread, but I have a horrible feeling the OP has removed it themselves ... if so I will try and find why.

[john]

"plays that spookey eerey tune that that play when the bad guys are creeping up behind you in films and TV"

 

Its the BSF Monster attacking our fourms, hiding the truth from us as it would be the end of the BSF rampage.

[FN-GM]

Hang on so you can opt out of a managed service with BSF? or have i go it wrong?

[Grommit]

Hang on so you can opt out of a managed service with BSF? or have i go it wrong?

 

 

This is what the tread was discussing.. someone mentioned that they could opt out and keep the funding if they had a good business case....

[FN-GM]

Oh right, well please someone post here when it come back then.

 

Z

[GrumbleDook]

It looks like the OP removed it, but investigating why.

[dhicks]

Hang on so you can opt out of a managed service with BSF?

 

From the hang-on-lads-I've-got-an-idea department:

 

If securing funding from BSF involves presenting a well-thought-out business case, would not the most sensible idea be for the ICT technicians at a given school to form their own company? It could all be sorted out with reciprocal agreements between the school and the new company as to use of school resources (office space, storage, use of school accountant, etc), but should be perfectly doable with some advice from someone who knows what they're talking about with this sort of thing. Then you get the best of both worlds - on-site support staff available all the time, who know the school, staff and pupils and are part of the school community, plus you get silly amounts of funding to spend on shiny new ICT equipment without the overhead of an external companies running costs (note: remember to adjust a bit for your own salary, of course!).

 

--

David Hicks

[GrumbleDook]

One of the key factors in any major procurement process is that it has to follow strict EU guidelines. Part of this is proof of sound financial backing.

 

The risk that the company may go under is not insignificant and this is how many small business get left behind on the major bids, or cannot even group together.

 

If you take Surrey County Council ... they formed a 'joint venture deal' with VT Group (in particular, the Education and Skills Dept of VT)

 

this then gives significant financial and private sector backing for a county to do things, as well as working with other authorities.

 

Northants CC sold off their education support team to Capita, although they are still treated as a separate arm to some extent.

 

If schools did wish to band together to form a company the major obstacles would be financial backing, legal support and experience, lack of significant experience of this body of work and we should not forget that this is before we even get through the bid process. A company bidding for a contract can reasonably expect to cough up serious amounts of money before being long listed, then more once they are shortlisted ... and then more between teh point of preferred bidder and financial closure. At this point the money *starts* to come in from the contracts ... and so you would be paying the salary of a large group of people before money even begins to come in ... and those people include consultants with educational experience, accountants, lawyers ... not exactly small wages.

 

I would reasonably expect a bill of £500k over an 18 month to 2 year period with out even earning any money ... and these are conservative estimates.

 

The way that the big companies save money is that they have already got experience of all of this process and can cut corners by using existing knowledge, existing contacts and existing paperwork. This, unfortunately, can lead to a cookie-cutter model of trying to fit new bids and contracts into models used elsewhere as a cost-saving exercise.

 

The companies that are getting to preferred bidder status are those that have sufficient enough wide experience that is allows them to adapt what they are doing best. This is still not ideal but that gives a bit more of an insight as to hwo they get the contracts.

[Geoff]

Yes, you would need some sort of support at LEA level to pull such a thing off.

[Grommit]

From the hang-on-lads-I've-got-an-idea department:

 

If securing funding from BSF involves presenting a well-thought-out business case, would not the most sensible idea be for the ICT technicians at a given school to form their own company? It could all be sorted out with reciprocal agreements between the school and the new company as to use of school resources (office space, storage, use of school accountant, etc), but should be perfectly doable with some advice from someone who knows what they're talking about with this sort of thing. Then you get the best of both worlds - on-site support staff available all the time, who know the school, staff and pupils and are part of the school community, plus you get silly amounts of funding to spend on shiny new ICT equipment without the overhead of an external companies running costs (note: remember to adjust a bit for your own salary, of course!).

 

--

David Hicks

 

The Business Case does not mean that an seperate company consisting of Technicians or an outside company has to run the Network..

 

You can submit a business case for keeping the ICT Support in-house with the SLT and Head of ICT handling the funding and complying with the strick EU regulations with the procurement of ICT Equipment and infrastructure..

 

R

[GrumbleDook]

The Business Case does not mean that an seperate company consisting of Technicians or an outside company has to run the Network..

 

You can submit a business case for keeping the ICT Support in-house with the SLT and Head of ICT handling the funding and complying with the strick EU regulations with the procurement of ICT Equipment and infrastructure..

 

R

 

But at the moment, that needs to be stipulated in the business plan from word go and applies to all schools.

 

There are still schools out there that *do* need to have things changed around by someone other than the staff at the school, whether we are talking about technical staff, the teaching staff or the leadership.

 

Whilst the 'in-house' idea suits many of us ... we then get a group of schools being shafted because they are not being catered for.

 

Again, we come back to the LA taking more control ... and that has previously been met with derision when talked about outside of the BSF context ... why should it now be acceptable as an alternative to BSF? Is it the lesser of two evils?

 

There is still no evidence that we can opt out yet. I have asked the OP to get in touch and requested information through other channels. When I have it I will pass it on.

[localzuk]

Again, we come back to the LA taking more control ... and that has previously been met with derision when talked about outside of the BSF context ... why should it now be acceptable as an alternative to BSF? Is it the lesser of two evils?

 

I think it is the lesser of 2 evils personally. That is why I see the fact that 'Southwest One' will be bidding for the somerset bsf contract. The LEA joined up with IBM to form this external company which now runs what used to be the resources directorate of Somerset County Council.

 

I know there are some good people there, with some useless ones and I don't think I would mind working for them, so long as there wasn't the beauracracy that is inherent in all LEAs.

[dhicks]

I would reasonably expect a bill of £500k over an 18 month to 2 year period with out even earning any money...

 

For some reason, your post brings to mind an image of large, lumbering sauropods bleating at each other as their tiny brains try and make sense of the world around them...

 

--

David Hicks

[GrumbleDook]

Damn ... you *have* been to procurement meetings then?

 

To be honest ... as much as I hate the financial and legal aspect of procurement, it is also a necessary evil at the moment. You will have companies that screw you on exit clauses, you will have LA bods that move roles and cannot be held accountable and you will have changes of Govt agenda.

 

Sir Humprhey both relishes the beauraucracy but also fears the accountability of it all.

[Grommit]

But at the moment, that needs to be stipulated in the business plan from word go and applies to all schools.

 

There are still schools out there that *do* need to have things changed around by someone other than the staff at the school, whether we are talking about technical staff, the teaching staff or the leadership.

 

Whilst the 'in-house' idea suits many of us ... we then get a group of schools being shafted because they are not being catered for.

 

Again, we come back to the LA taking more control ... and that has previously been met with derision when talked about outside of the BSF context ... why should it now be acceptable as an alternative to BSF? Is it the lesser of two evils?

 

There is still no evidence that we can opt out yet. I have asked the OP to get in touch and requested information through other channels. When I have it I will pass it on.

 

I think we should stop worrying about schools who's ICT is not up to standard.. we all know the the BSF is a good thing for tham... we should focus on the schools who have good ICT and how we can keep ICT in-house..