Lend a helping hand with electrics?

[abillybob]

Hey Guys

 

Hoping someone can help. We have 4 outside lights that are connected to the power inside our house and use a PIR sensor to turn off and on. That's great but the PIR Sensors on the lights are completely useless, you have to actually touch them to get them to turn on.

 

I've found a way to bypass the PIR on the light so it's just connected straight to the mains (as you can see in picture 1) this worked, this seemed like a good idea as we have two light switches inside the house which should switch on and off the power to the lights, but once I did this I discovered the light switches don't do anything.... it's a bit strange as there are wires connected to them but seriously don't turn anything on or off, I think they are supposed to be there for the outside lights but haven't been wired up correctly.

 

Does anyone know what I can do to correct this issue? I'm not too bad when it comes to electrical stuff but I'm confused why the switches have something connected up to them but don't do anything which has stopped me messing with things.

 

I think I can see the outside light "Live" wire in there but it's just connected via a terminal block to the same wire. I have included as best pictures I can of behind the switches so hopefully this will help!

 

Cheers peeps!!!

 

*Picture 1

 

How the light was wired while connected to the PIR sensor

 

Behind the light switch that doesn't do anything

[snagrat]

I'm struggling to see why you have 4 cables behind the light switch?

 

[Edit] Unless each switch controls 2 lights?

[abillybob]

I'm struggling to see why you have 4 cables behind the light switch?

 

[Edit] Unless each switch controls 2 lights?

This is my confusion... forget the last "Attached picture" it's more complicated and I'd have to explain it a lot more! As far as my understanding goes there should be three cables, a live, neutral and earth! I don't understand where these other four cables go because the light switch literally does nothing!!

 

EDIT: There is two lights outside our front door that this one switch should turn on and off so maybe that's it? But the cables coming out to the lights are blue and brown..

Edited February 21, 2017 by abillybob

[snagrat]

So looks like all the lives are all connected which would suggest the lights would always be on

 

The neutrals are continuously connected but the Lives should go through the switch.

 

Live in and out on the ring should go into the Common on the switch.

The live to the lights should be wired into the other terminal. Therefore the rocker makes the connection when switched on

[abillybob]

So looks like all the lives are all connected which would suggest the lights would always be onThe neutrals are continuously connected but the Lives should go through the switch.

Live in and out on the ring should go into the Common on the switch.

The live to the lights should be wired into the other terminal. Therefore the rocker makes the connection when switched on

Cheers for this, thought this was the case. So what they've effectively done is connect all the brown wires (live) to one terminal sending power straight through to the lights where as you should have 2 brown wires to the "Common" terminal on the switch and the other 2 brown which go to the lights on the "L1" terminal. Should the black wires (Neutral) be wired up to the "L2" terminal then or where should they go?

[snagrat]

I would say the black should be connected to the other blues in the block.

 

L2 is only needed for two way light switches.

[snagrat]

In fact what ever you do not connect them to L2 otherwise you will send live down the neutral when switched on

[Seb1780]

tl:dr - get an electrician in to work it out

 

Some of the cables coming in behind the switch are 3-core & Earth, and some are twin & earth that you might be familiar with on a ring main (power sockets). When used in the switched leg of a lighting circuit the normal brown=live blue=neutral does not apply. Add in the addition of grey and black conductors (wires) from the three core cables and you can see that this can become very confusing very quickly.

 

Three-core cables are used for two-way or three-way switching circuits. This means there is probably more than one switch on that circuit. It also means you cannot tell just by looking at it which wires are live at any given time!

 

The second picture of the lights shows you have permanent live, switched live and neutral conductors connected and it is quite likely that there is a lot more to this circuit than you see at the light and the switch.

 

There is no safe way to work all this out without training, education and the right, safe tools. I suggest you get a qualified electrician in.

 

Source: I'm Part-P qualified

[gh5000]

Its the use of the 3 core & earth that is confusing in this situation for me.

 

I don't want to suggest something that will burn your house down. As @Seb1780 says it's a job for someone with the knowhow.

 

My next question was going to be what cable is visible at the lights. The twin + earth or 3core +earth? From the pictures of the lights it looks like neither.

 

Then that last light switch pic complicates matters further - it looks like L1, L2 and COM are in use which as seb1780 says means there's more than one switch in the circuit.

 

Love solving these things but get an electrian in

[SpuffMonkey]

To me - it looks like a similar wiring set up to a bathroom extractor fan that has a timer - you have two lives, one of which acts as a signal to turn off and the other which keeps the unit running until the timer switches off - the switch is to isolate.

 

As above - if you don't know what you're doing - get in somebody who dpes - cos this stuff can be dangerous to you and your house - and that would be a dangerous and expensive mistake!

[thebatman]

If you take the light fitting off the wall, is there a Gray, Brown, Black, and Earth (Yellow and Green) cable? If so the Brown is Live (Unswitched) witch it is conected to now, Black is switched Live and gray is Nautal. I used to wire them like this so you could override the PIR, looks like thats what they was going to do but didnt take the time to re-wire the light PIR.

What I am trying to get to is you can eather take the light off and cable to the Gray (Nutral) and Black (Live) or

re-wire the light switch side > The cable that has the Brown, Black, Gray and Earth, swrop over the black and brown (You will end up with two Brown and two Black in top and two Brown in the bottom)

I would recomend getting someone in tho.

[abillybob]

Thanks for all your help guys. It sounds more complicated than a simple +, - and Earth of which I'm used to. I'm getting my dad to come down and have a look as he used to be a fully trained electrician. Hoping he can help!!

 

Thanks All!!

[Leeoakley]

Do you have any testing equipment?

[Andrew_C]

Step away! There's a lot of muddle above, that could result in death, or a big bang and cursing. You need competent advice, which no one here can give as we can't see and measure your wiring.

 

Get a sparks, or friend who knows what's what to have a look.

 

Ahhh... I see that's what you are doing. Good.