Big network upgrade v soon - need advice on prices and recommendations please.

[rpain]

Hi,

 

We're going to be upgrading our server and all switches within the next month (I'm quite excited in a geeky way). We need to replace 10 switches and it has been suggested that we spend £1000 each on some hpe 2530 switches and £2000 each on another few hpe 2530 poe switches (with a view for using voip phones in the future) - that cost includes 2x10 gigabit sfp+. Does this seem and excessive amount for these switches. I looked them up and they seem a fair bit cheaper elsewhere but I don't know how much the 10 gigabit sfp+ modules are and even whether we need them bearing in mind the switches are still 'only' 1 gigabit.

 

Next comes vmware - the extra amount is about £600 and then a small yearly subscription along with veeam which is another £500 or so. Can we just use hyper-v instead or is the difference worth it? I know there's personal preference involved - I'm used to vmware so changing would give me something new to learn which I'd like...except if it is going to cause me problems (where vmware has so far not).

 

Finally, we are on windows 2008 r2 on one vm (backup DC) and 2012 r2 on another 3 (sccm, a file/print server and a domain controller). They are suggesting holding off upgrading to server 2016 for a year or so until patches come out. Would you agree with this? I don't think our set up is hugely complicated and pretty much all of our data is now in office 365 (along with emails). We're looking to move our mis to isams possibly next September which further cuts down our reliance on our local servers.

 

It's a huge sum of money so any advice would be really really welcome.

 

Thanks,

Richard

[FN-GM]

I am not upto date with HP kit so can't be much help there but 10GB is defiantly the way. Make sure you stack switches where you can. I would also make sure the core is decent and get some HA. People buy servers with multiple PSU's Raid etc then neglect the switches!

 

We have just switched from VMware to Hyper-V in the summer. It was a purely financial decisions. Saved about £4k a year. I would go with Hyper-V if I was you it will do most of what Vmware does. Especially with server 2016. If you cluster it you have to use 2 separate interfaces that is a pain but I can live with that. Its also more simple to setup and look after than Vmware. The DPM backup stuff works well with Hyper-V. You can backup the whole V.

 

They are suggesting holding off upgrading to server 2016 for a year or so until patches come out. Would you agree with this?

 

I wouldn't hold off, I would just go for it. We have started using it to replace Server 2012 (non R2) boxes. We have multiple sites and some more complex setups and its been just fine. We have 6 in service and no issues. We will be upgrading our Hyper-V from 2012 R2 to 2016 in some time before Christmas.

Edited November 7, 2016 by FN-GM

[njc235]

A few questions and pointers.

What fibre infrastructure do you have?

What switches do you currently have, maybe existing core could be reused at the edge?

Consider 1920 & 1950 Poe and non Poe

How many dabs coming back to core (how many 10g ports required there)

Flat or VLANs?

Talk to other local schools to find out what they did and who they use.

[Wubbalubbadub]

I did my network upgrade this time last year. I went for HP 1950's with 10gb SFP+ on every switch (all POE) and it cost me about £1400 per switch (£1000 for the switch and 3-400 for the modules @ 2 per switch) although I think Brexit has brought this up! [emoji35]

 

As for the VMware or hyperv... I have always used hyper v. Never had any complaints... as for the the comment on managing them on 2 separate interfaces!? I don't folllow! Because you can use failover cluster manager on any machine with RSAT on it, which means you can manage the whole cluster from that one interface!?

 

I'm a keen been, so personally I would go ahead with 2016! Especially for the hyper v!

Edited November 8, 2016 by Wubbalubbadub

[localzuk]

As mentioned by @njc235 - what are the fibres you have in the school? As a rough guide, these are the maximum lengths each fibre type will provide:

 

OM1 - 33m

OM2 - 82m

OM3 - 300m

OM4 - 400m

Singlemode - 10km

 

Bear in mind that OM3 and OM4 are also future-proofed for 40Gbit and 100Gbit (to an extent).

 

Personally, I'd recommend making sure everything is OM3 or OM4 anyway.

[FN-GM]

As for the VMware or hyperv... I have always used hyper v. Never had any complaints... as for the the comment on managing them on 2 separate interfaces!? I don't folllow! Because you can use failover cluster manager on any machine with RSAT on it, which means you can manage the whole cluster from that one interface!?

 

For example if you want to move a VM to another host you have to use the failover cluster manager. If i wan't to take a checkpoint I have to use the Hyper-V manager. I have to keep switching between the consoles. Would be some much better if it was all together in the same console.

[localzuk]

SCVMM can do it all from one interface I believe.

[ricki]

I agree a 10 gig fibre backbone with the new Poe switches to access points to maximise capacity.

 

I would suggest VMware with at least 2 nodes and 2 sans, a veam backup server and if possible an off site backup for essential data like Sims.

 

Hyper v is ok but VMware is easier to virtualized physical servers and is easier but as they say you get what you pay for

Edited November 8, 2016 by ricki

[FN-GM]

SCVMM can do it all from one interface I believe.

 

Most (but not all). But its very clunky and slow. The only thing that makes SCVMM worth it is it the VM template deployment.

[njc235]

The 1950 24G POE+ (JG961A) should run around the £850 mark. It will of course take compatible modules so no need to go for the more expensive genuine ones.

[Net-Ctrl]

@rpain would you consider looking at alternative switch solutions at all?

 

We supply Allied Telesis, Juniper Networks and Brocade into the EDU market. The Allied Telesis portfolio in particular has been popular and moved a lot of people away from HP. If it was of interest, I can arrange for one of our engineers to get in touch and discuss your requirements, and based on that conversation put forward an alternative solution.

[Chris_]

Hi,

 

We're going to be upgrading our server and all switches within the next month (I'm quite excited in a geeky way). We need to replace 10 switches and it has been suggested that we spend £1000 each on some hpe 2530 switches and £2000 each on another few hpe 2530 poe switches (with a view for using voip phones in the future) - that cost includes 2x10 gigabit sfp+. Does this seem and excessive amount for these switches. I looked them up and they seem a fair bit cheaper elsewhere but I don't know how much the 10 gigabit sfp+ modules are and even whether we need them bearing in mind the switches are still 'only' 1 gigabit.

 

Make sure you're looking at the right switches. There are the 2530-48G-POE+ (and the non POE versions 2530-48G) which only have 1GB copper ports and 1GB SFP ports, there's then the 2530-48G-POE+-2SFP+ which have 1GB copper ports, and then 10GB SFP+ ports. Obviously the ones without 10GB SFP ports are considerably cheaper.

[Markopolo]

The 1950 24G POE+ (JG961A) should run around the £850 mark. It will of course take compatible modules so no need to go for the more expensive genuine ones.

 

 

This, we were able to use compatibles with our HP kit. Saved so much money we were able to buy several spare switches, modules and GBICs.

[rpain]

Hi,

 

Thank you all for your replies - it's so so useful to get several other opinions.

 

Current switches - most are netgear JGS524 but our main one which feeds 3 different areas is a GS724TS with 3 sfp modules.

I'm not sure what type of fibre we have. The link to our main server was installed about 4 years ago but the rest of the rest is over 10 years old. Is there any way to check?

Currently we have a flat network so it is being proposed that vlans are introduced to allow voip/cctv/buldings management systems to have their own lans which makes sense. We will have a maximum of 35 voip lines.

 

I would be reticent to look at other solutions. We have built up a good relationship with our current support company so I'd like to keep them in check but still keep them on board.

 

Richard

[Blue_Cookeh]

Hi,

 

Thank you all for your replies - it's so so useful to get several other opinions.

 

Current switches - most are netgear JGS524 but our main one which feeds 3 different areas is a GS724TS with 3 sfp modules.

I'm not sure what type of fibre we have. The link to our main server was installed about 4 years ago but the rest of the rest is over 10 years old. Is there any way to check?

Currently we have a flat network so it is being proposed that vlans are introduced to allow voip/cctv/buldings management systems to have their own lans which makes sense. We will have a maximum of 35 voip lines.

 

I would be reticent to look at other solutions. We have built up a good relationship with our current support company so I'd like to keep them in check but still keep them on board.

 

Richard

 

You'd do yourself a favour in ditching Netgear if you're seriously looking at VLANs and routing, their management sucks. We switched over to HPE/Aruba switches.

[ITGURU]

Hi,

 

Thank you all for your replies - it's so so useful to get several other opinions.

 

Current switches - most are netgear JGS524 but our main one which feeds 3 different areas is a GS724TS with 3 sfp modules.

I'm not sure what type of fibre we have. The link to our main server was installed about 4 years ago but the rest of the rest is over 10 years old. Is there any way to check?

Currently we have a flat network so it is being proposed that vlans are introduced to allow voip/cctv/buldings management systems to have their own lans which makes sense. We will have a maximum of 35 voip lines.

 

I would be reticent to look at other solutions. We have built up a good relationship with our current support company so I'd like to keep them in check but still keep them on board.

 

Richard

If you look on the fibre cable it will more often or not have it written on how many cores and fibre type.. 8 core 50/125 OM3 8 core 62.5/125 if you have any 62.5 fibre you will most likely be out of luck and need changing/new runs.

 

We went to 10 gig back in 2006 and had to have all new fibre runs. Advantage was that we could continue to run the 1gig backbone and swap each switch over 1 and a time to 10gb.

 

Hopefully if you have the skills you can save yourself a lot of money when you get projects like this and spend the extra on the hardware. We pay around £1200 for a 48 port gigabit switch with 4 x 10GB uplink ports. (D-LINK) The 4 uplink ports are separate, not combo ports, so you get the full 48 ports for clients.

[Net-Ctrl]

I would be reticent to look at other solutions. We have built up a good relationship with our current support company so I'd like to keep them in check but still keep them on board.

 

No problem at all, I completely understand. Best of luck with the project

[ricki]

Just had a thought don't forget to put Poe capacity for CCTV while you are upgrading Richard

[ITGURU]

Just had a thought don't forget to put Poe capacity for CCTV while you are upgrading Richard

 

Or save your network bandwidth and have POE NVRs, as means the cameras are directly recording to the Box and the only traffic that goes over the network is when live viewing or playback. We have several located over the site, all brought together using the software to centrally manage. Even have POE cameras on runs over 150m with a POE extender in between that doesn't require a power source!

Also means your cameras continue recording if your switch failed. Just an FYI

[lmgtfy]

Or save your network bandwidth and have POE NVRs, as means the cameras are directly recording to the Box and the only traffic that goes over the network is when live viewing or playback. We have several located over the site, all brought together using the software to centrally manage. Even have POE cameras on runs over 150m with a POE extender in between that doesn't require a power source!

Also means your cameras continue recording if your switch failed. Just an FYI

 

Can I ask what NVR's and cameras you are using, sounds interesting.

[ITGURU]

Can I ask what NVR's and cameras you are using, sounds interesting.

Sure, It's Hikvision. We upgraded and old analogue System about 2 years ago to Hikvision with domes and PTZ cameras. 2MP PTZ cameras, and 3MP and 4MP domes. Each recorder has 2 HDD for redundancy, 8 or 16 POE ports on the back for the cameras, and a single gigabit uplink port to the network. We have 10 recorders.

 

Using the iVMS software you import all NVRs by their IP (we have them on a separate VLAN) then you can drag and drop cameras from any recorder to make custom views. the only traffic going over your network is when viewing the streams or playback/export.

 

.

Edited November 8, 2016 by ITGURU

[lmgtfy]

Sure, It's Hikvision. We upgraded and old analogue System about 2 years ago to Hikvision with domes and PTZ cameras. 2MP PTZ cameras, and 3MP and 4MP domes. Each recorder has 2 HDD for redundancy, 8 or 16 POE ports on the back for the cameras, and a single gigabit uplink port to the network. We have 10 recorders.

 

Using the iVMS software you import all NVRs by their IP (we have them on a separate VLAN) then you can drag and drop cameras from any recorder to make custom views. the only traffic going over your network is when viewing the streams or playback/export.

 

.

 

Sounds like a good idea to me. Just to get an idea do you know what model number the recorders are and how much roughly they cost?

[ricki]

We use Hikvision