Multipoint solution

[jdaviesll12]

Hi all, since I did not get any feedback on my previous post "Multipoint Server graphics card issues", I thought I would try a different tack.

 

I have been asked to come up with a shopping list for an 8 station solution based on WMS. One firm quoted £10k, so I think I need to come up with my own list. To keep costs down to our budget of £1500 I am thinking of directly connected monitors, USB hubs etc. Is anybody able to help?

[mikeyd101]

I've used some ncomputing multipoint cards and tiny thin clients (x-series), not sure how much hardware and licensing cost and they were only Ok, there were a few Microsoft RDP patches that broke it, some software didn't work very well for multiaccess.

 

I'd maybe look at some other similar thin clients, more like ncomputings l-series, something that uses terminal services.

[jdaviesll12]

Thanks for the reply Mikey. I have been asked to look into Multiple VGA cards in the main box directly connected to screens. Everyone seems to be on about thin clients though. I cannot find any compatible hardware list, MS are not providing any free support, so I am pretty much on my own.

[sted]

from what ive seen of multipoint id be tempted to set up an rds server and use something like raspberry pi's as thin clients it just seems to be more trouble than its worth

[jdaviesll12]

Thanks Sted, I did some reading on that option and it does look like a better solution.

[Achandler]

Personally I would avoid Multi-Point, I mean it's ok, it works fairly reliably. However, our Multi-Point rooms were the most hated and booked/ used only after every other classroom wasn't available. We have replaced these first, over thin clients and old computers.

[strawberry]

New HP QS971AA MultiSeat T100 Thin Client | eBay

 

These are great. Clip them to the back of the monitor and plug them into the MPS server with the whopping great usb lead that comes with them.

[Oaktech]

I had a very successful trial of an @Axel Model 80 WMS thin client. Eventually we decided the licensing of 4x multipoint servers and the associated Client ALs and System Center management ALs was more hassle than it was worth and just bought a suite of 35 refurb desktops at £85 each from @ICTDirect_Dave

 

This is the link to the Axel offering Axel: AX3000 Models 80WMS

[Oaktech]

New HP QS971AA MultiSeat T100 Thin Client | eBay

 

These are great. Clip them to the back of the monitor and plug them into the MPS server with the whopping great usb lead that comes with them.

 

Be really careful with USB connected clients, we had ncomputing usb clients and if someone wiggled a USB lead all 10 USB connected clients crashed and required a push button restart of the server.

[jdaviesll12]

Thanks all for your reply's. I'm a bit confused by Axel reply, WMS is a role within MS server 2012?

[Oaktech]

Thanks all for your reply's. I'm a bit confused by Axel reply, WMS is a role within MS server 2012?

 

What is confusing you?

 

The Axel thin client is a dedicated terminal to connect to an ethernet connected multipoint instance.

[Axel]

With Multipoint you have several options for connecting, each providing different levels of costs, performance, and load on server.

 

-via VGA cards

-via USB thin client

-via ethernet/RDP (ie traditional thin client)

 

Ultimately about the same amount of resource is required for each method, it is an issue of where the resource physically is, ie if the rendering occurs within the server, in a VGA card or in a thin client

 

W2008 Mulitpoint was a totally separate product, essentially a low cost subset of W2008

W2012/16 Multipoint is demoted to a role within the normal server offering

 

I don't know how this impacts licensing - someone else can pick up on that...

 

The VGA/USB methods probably offer better performance - but search on here users comments on stability, special non Microsoft drivers are required.

Using RDP thin clients will cost more (iro £150ea), but does give flexibility of migrating to the full server environment, VDI, Cloud etc, and provides a stable environment, due to having no third party drivers on the server.

 

Also whatever you choose take care you have support for all the peripherals you may need, ie audio, memory sticks, attaching cameras, smartboards(!). It would be unsafe to assume all the methods of connection provide the same functionality....

[Oaktech]

With Multipoint you have several options for connecting, each providing different levels of costs, performance, and load on server.

 

-via VGA cards

-via USB thin client

-via ethernet/RDP (ie traditional thin client)

 

Ultimately about the same amount of resource is required for each method, it is an issue of where the resource physically is, ie if the rendering occurs within the server, in a VGA card or in a thin client

 

W2008 Mulitpoint was a totally separate product, essentially a low cost subset of W2008

W2012/16 Multipoint is demoted to a role within the normal server offering

 

I don't know how this impacts licensing - someone else can pick up on that...

 

The VGA/USB methods probably offer better performance - but search on here users comments on stability, special non Microsoft drivers are required.

Using RDP thin clients will cost more (iro £150ea), but does give flexibility of migrating to the full server environment, VDI, Cloud etc, and provides a stable environment, due to having no third party drivers on the server.

 

Also whatever you choose take care you have support for all the peripherals you may need, ie audio, memory sticks, attaching cameras, smartboards(!). It would be unsafe to assume all the methods of connection provide the same functionality....

 

Just to add to what @Axel has said, you will need to licence each server instance you create, that was around £75 per server for us x4. You also have to licence each connected terminal as this is not included in your core cals, at around £4-15 depending on your subscription and if you use SCCM to manage the servers and provide SCEP antivirus you also have to licence the management CAL at around £10 per server.

 

You also need to consider flexibility, USB clients are obviously limited by the 10m confines of the USB protocol, what happens if you need a terminal outside this? VGA clients are even more restricted. If you have ethernet everywhere already I would use a ethernet client every time. You can pretty much run 10/100mb ethernet down a piece of wet string.

 

I'm sure you can see why the use-case for WMS is very very situation specific, and it is a debate that needs to be had whether the thin cleint route is the saving you thought it was going to be when it's going to cost £75 a year to run the server and up to £150 for each client, compared to some refurbished machines at less £100 each which have a windows licence included forever and CALs included in your core bundle if you have OVS. You are unlikely to get superior performance, particularly graphically, from a terminal compared to say, a 3ghz core 2 duo.