Tips for first time fathers

[MkII]

I think we like to think of ourselves as classless (tis the fashion), well, some of us are a bit proud of our working class roots. It certainly feels that way (that we're classless), but I suspect the real middle class (and who knows who the upper class are) know themselves very well and are quite protective of their not so little clique. We're all better off (said in a Life of Brian stylie) so it's tempting to think we've moved up a class.

You could also say that the suppliers of a vast slice of our goods - the army of third world workers are actually our working class.

The highly skilled jobs undertaken by very clever 'working class' craftsmen in the past no longer exist. How are we different from them? Being middle class to my mind certainly isn't linked to intelligence or any other virtue, more power and corruption and it's passing down.

[torledo]

Er...can I just ask what is so wrong about being middle-class? I am - middle-middle actually, and proud of it.

In this day and age, the old class labels no longer fit as people of all backgrounds, ages and incomes do much the same things as each other. One of the few ways to try and tell is to listen to them speak - not the accent, but the way they put together sentences (not easy on a forum!). And that isn't reliable any more as people move up and down one classification all the time. (my grandfather was an engine driver - 'working class' if you like, and my dad went to a grammar, on to Uni and became an undersecretary in the government (like in 'Yes Minister' - archetypal middle class))

The middle classes work too, and this job that we all do is definitely a middle class occupation, whether you like it or not. Reverse snobbery, I think. Do you think that a miner or factory worker would look at any of you and think you were working class? I think not!

 

to me middle class isn't just about what occupation you have or how much money you earn...it's a combination of both plus education plus ethos plus lifestyle....maybe middle class isn't the correct word anymore but there's undoubtedly a 'class' of people who are unmistakebly middle class in the sense of how we used to imagine them. There's now a new lower middle class who don't fall easily into either 'working' or 'middle class'. Let me give you some examples;

 

on my street the house are roughly of the same size and value but the people are very different.

 

I am not working class, my dad used to be many years ago when he was a young apprentice, today he does practically the same manual job but today that job provides decent salary, company car, company pension scheme, sick pay etc. Is he middle class ? definitely not, even though he's financially quite well off (light most people of his generation). His lifestyle and formal education (or lackof) was very much working class....today he is probably lower-middle-class when you take everything into account.

 

a couple of doors away and you couldn't get people more different. Professional people (legal profession) who no doubt went to grammar school, went on to study degree at uni. Professional occupations, good education. Lifestyle is one centred around being environmentally aware. They talk about politics and read the broadsheets on a sunday. They even have an allotment to grow their own veg - how modern middle class is that!!!

 

Now i went to uni, but i got a crap degree, i'm in a professional occupation, but i don't earn a lot of money and am not in high position. I'm not at all environmentally aware, i follow politics and read newspapers...but i can't pretend to understand much about it. I wouldn't be seen dead growing my own veg or building a composte heap at the end of the garden. I don't cook, can't cook. So i've never made a desert or cooked an evening meal or 'experimented in the kitchen'. in some ways i am middle class, but overall i'm not, i'm probably lower-middle.

 

There's soooo many things to being middle-class, and there's also other classes that can be thrown into the mix that never used to exist. 18-30 single disposal income, students, urbanites, suburnanites and loads of other words probably i and certain newspapers only ever use.

 

then there's the myriad of working classes - a lot of whom don't actually work. Maybe they're lower class not the 'those on low income' as the PC brigade like to say.

 

yes the lines are a little blurry, but the classes very much exist. I even think there's a definite distinction between white and blue collar workers in britain today.

[chrbb]

Cat amongst the pigeon time - sorry in advance.

 

I don't do class distinctions at all, I couldn't give a shiney s*** what class I am or any of my friends, collegues etc but what I do, do is avoid people like the plague that think they are better than they are.

[witch]

Being middle class to my mind certainly isn't linked to intelligence or any other virtue, more power and corruption and it's passing down.

 

 

How on earth is being middle class linked to power and corruption?

 

The reason I was saying anything about class at all is that torledo was using the word 'middle class' as a mild insult about baby carriers. (a sneer, actually).All I was saying was that if you are, or consider yourself to be, middle class, then what was wrong with that? I was not suggesting in the least that the middle class (if there is one) is better or worse than anyone else, or linked to intelligence or anything else - just that to sneer at it is unnecessary and pointless. And as I said- saying that you are 'working class' when you quite plainly are not is reverse snobbery, I think.

People who think they are better than they are come from all walks of life - it's a human failing and after all, what right to we have to put ourselves above them and judge what they are or are not?

Edited February 17, 2008 by witch

[chrbb]

People who think they are better than they are come from all walks of life - it's a human failing and after all, what right to we have to put ourselves above them and judge what they are or are not?

 

I don't put myself above anyone - I just avoid them like the plague! They're easy to spot - braggers, boasters, superior beings, usually have a stiff neck from looking down their nose at everyone and thing!

[MkII]

How on earth is being middle class linked to power and corruption?

 

The reason I was saying anything about class at all is that torledo was using the word 'middle class' as a mild insult about baby carriers. (a sneer, actually).All I was saying was that if you are, or consider yourself to be, middle class, then what was wrong with that? I was not suggesting in the least that the middle class (if there is one) is better or worse than anyone else, or linked to intelligence or anything else - just that to sneer at it is unnecessary and pointless. And as I said- saying that you are 'working class' when you quite plainly are not is reverse snobbery, I think.

People who think they are better than they are come from all walks of life - it's a human failing and after all, what right to we have to put ourselves above them and judge what they are or are not?

 

Yes, take your point. Although I can't get away from the feeling that classes exist to put people up/ down - and the people on the bottom have every right to shoot at those higher up.

 

There are several ways of defining 'middle class' I think, and I have one interpretation that it's the management/ business owning class - who definitely have power, and that is unfortunately hard linked to corruption.