Community Project For You All : Letter TOI BCS

[russdev]

ok on wiki here http://www.russdev.com/edugeek/doku.php?id=draft_of_letter_to_bcs there is draft letter to BCS and schools working comittee (need to check that name).

 

Anyway edit and redraft as you like once it obvious that all the chanages have been made then will put a vote here for final draft so all can say fi you are happy if you are will send it to them.

 

Good old fasion community project...

 

Russ

[russdev]

bump

 

comes on guys and girls must have something to say to powers that be and if only way to get info across is to "play fiddle with the devil" then pass me that bow...

 

Russ

[Lord_Edam]

I'm killing time till I can go home so I might as well have a bash...

 

lots of minor edits that don't change what

you're saying but do improve the flow slightly. moving sentence fragments around so they don't draw from the intended details.

[russdev]

no problem point is this letter nit just from me but from edugeek community change what you want...

 

Russ

[MkII]

Can you give us more information on this BCS "Schools Expert Panel" - I have no idea what they do or what they're about - so it's difficult to know what to write.

[russdev]

certainly http://www.bcs.org/BCS/groups/expertpanels/schools/activities.htm

 

Russ

[russdev]

imho these are people to target as they have resources/ backing and contacts...

 

I hope in someways that they look into using one of there working groups to focus on issue..

 

But for now just getting to be aware of situation and getting there support might improve somthing at least...

 

Russ

[MkII]

I think it'd be a bit strange if these guys weren't already putting in a very strong case for us on issues like pay, grading, numbers of IT support staff and training.

 

With the progression of IT to core subject status [except here in Wales where we don't have room for another as Welsh Language is our third core subject ] schools have to face the reality of serious IT provision.

 

I'd like to know first what these guys are doing now on our behalf before wasting a request [Hope i'm not being ignorant here ].

 

If they're only looking at teaching roles in all of this I believe they are seriously misguided! The chair of the group has to be an accredited member of the BCS, but no-where does it say they're doing anything about the enginehouse [ie us!]. Thanks fellow techs for your support!

 

Can we send an investagatory letter asking what exactly they're doing here from thier memberships perspective?

 

I recon they'll be in for some serious flak if this shows that they're not helping the interests of thier members.

[Dos_Box]

I wouldn't hold your breath Mark. ICT (and indeed any subject in education) is first and foremost teacher-centric. Schools are primarily designed to accomodate teachers needs, which is why they hired us. However with the mass introduction of technologies into schools in the past 15 years schools are slowly beginning to realise that training one person to teach a class with nothing more than a blackboard, chalk and text books (and on some rare occasions a video) is rapidly vanishing over the horizon. IMHO The situation is getting better (indeed I may just go back into a schools as their wages are now topping mine in some Lancashire schools!), but still in the vast majority of schools they simply cannot cope with the idea of ICT as a school resource. I can almost guarentee that any organisation which is headed by an academic will not put supporting staff first!

[russdev]

but that is some ways point of letter mark reminding the group about ict support...

 

unfortuntly and in some ways not bcs falt but as chris says this is problem with becta and education are very teacher centric views...

 

This is why need to get groups like bcs and other groups fighting our cornor....

 

BECTA art never going to be support staff focused as there funding is from goverment..

 

So need people to lobby goverment and other agencies and yes wages and conditions are improving but there is allot of work to do and point is.

 

We should not be comparing wages for our jobs compared to education what is differecne between school it tech and it tech working in copmany not much difference slightly different way of working but job is the same and so why should there be such a differecnce between wages.

 

 

Point is the schools group maybe not doing anything so we need them to get them to do something..

 

Maybe in letter put what are you doing for us now and what can you do for us in future...

 

Mark edit the page this is community letter not just from me i just put the basis up..

 

in end you have two choices complain and do nothing or complain and at least try and improve the situation.

[Ric_]

Russ - I think I'm having an off day since I couldn't understand your last post much, but from what I did get...

 

Why shouldn't our wages be compared to those doing the teaching?

 

Surely, we have had to spend years learning to do what we do and without us there would be no resources to teach with. Does this not sound very much like a teacher - several years study and their teaching is the resource.

 

As Chris has mentioned before, it is the attitude of the majority (not all) educators that teachers should hold the 'highest' jobs in the school, and therefore be paid most. Whilst teachers wages are decided by el gov, ours are essentially capped.

 

I'm seriously considering a switch to tech support in a uni as my next step. Have you seen the wages!?!?

[russdev]

i agree obvious my post was confusing...

 

I agree our wages should compare to that of teachers as they should compare to industry as well were in both cases wages are higher..

 

i think tried to include repleis to both posts confused matter..

 

ok to Mark who from his post was saying bcs that should be doing something already in essence why should they if we do not tell them we want them to do something..

 

To chris and ric

 

agree it comes down to a fudmental mentallity of teachers are better and as said pay should compare to both teachers pay and commerical pay scales....

 

 

Russ

[tarquel]

I'm seriously considering a switch to tech support in a uni as my next step. Have you seen the wages!?!?

 

as am I .....

 

Would be nice (if there isn't any already) to get some uni it folk on the forum to hear their point of view on things in their establishments and environment

 

I'd love to get a job in networking / server admin / etc in a uni - must be good pay and a challenge to boot

 

aberystwyth uni - if you're looking.... ;)

 

Cheers,

N.

[russdev]

saying that worked at a college and ok pay better but get lot of politics but i think you are diluted from it as they are so big...

 

Russ

[MkII]

@ Dos_Box: I think a schools primary design is to educate kids. That schools are run by good teachers [that's why they rose to management positions after all, and not because they were good managers] makes the focus teacher centric - which is a mistake, although I agree - a fact of life [mostly].

 

That acedemics rule the roost is a huge disaster waiting to happen. The BECTA site is a case in point - pontification for it's own sake.

 

Things are moving big style in the way that schools are now looking at IT support and our positions. I agree there are good opportunities now for better pay and conditions.

 

@ Ric_: Yes Tech grades are decided locally by the school head. This is very unfair and leads to discrepancies between neighbouring schools for ppl doing the same job with identical resposibilities/workload. Powys are undertaking a re-grading review. Schools insist it doesn't affect them, school heads are adamant that they are the ultimate judge, but the government, the local councils and the unions all say different - we shall see - interesting times!

[russdev]

@Mark

 

I think in someways that is a problem as support staff can not rise to managment posititions so we are always going to looked at as a different class...

 

I also think they should decide a national payscale for support staff that all leas have to follow at least then we know where we stand.

 

and maybe in letter need to say things are getting better but lot of work to do...

 

Whole point of this letter is to say what we want and to get our view across hell they may not listen, bcs may listen but goverment may then decided not to listen but if we do not try then few years down line we will only have ourselfts to blame when gap between teaching staff and support staff is so wide that no bridge can get across..

 

Russ

[Ric_]

In some ways, it is possibly a good thing (for me) at the moment that there is no national pay scale since I am on a relatively good wage compared to a lot of techs that are in a similar position to me.

 

I was talking to Chris a few months ago and the new (well new at the time) education minister had just announced that she didn't want teachers to be holding management positions in schools - i.e. leave teachers to what they are good at. Obviously some teachers would leave teaching to become managers but life isn't perfect

 

Anyway, this little rant has got a little off topic so to sum up... a nicely worded letter would do no harm if it makes somebody think about the descepencies that exist between our pay and that of our colleagues in industry and teaching.

 

(BTW - we do tend to get paid more than lab techs and caretakers so some progress has been made)

[ninjabeaver]

(BTW - we do tend to get paid more than lab techs and caretakers so some progress has been made)

 

Its true, I'm the 2nd most highly paid ancillary staff here at the school. The next one up from me is the school Bursarr, but I'd never reacher her dizzy heights on the payscale.

[russdev]

right so as per orginal post please feelf ree to edit if you want to alter anything..

 

Russ