KS3 ICT Pilot

[russdev]

just reemebered i never created forum for this as was requested 9 pages ago...

 

 

anyway will split this post into topics as we have got loads of different stuff on here..

 

russ

[beeswax]

ha! get in this morning and the damn thing's working.

thunk

 

beeswax

[russdev]

lol

 

well managed to sort some of this htread out will do rest later

 

russ

[beeswax]

ha! get in this morning and the damn thing's working.

thunk

 

beeswax

 

running the audit stops and restarts the services. so there.

 

beeswax

[pcprofessor]

****URGENT***

 

There is a thread running today (Thursday) on the schoolforge-uk website touching on this topic. If anyone wants to get their ten pennorth in, then go to http://groups.google.com/group/sf-uk-discuss and look for the BECTA meeting thread. Tomorrow will be too late.

[nightowl]

We've just had a brief practice session with a group of about 25 pupils, and to my suprise, it went quite well, (after the initial moan about "nothing looks right" and "I can't find Powerpoint!").

 

The only real issue we had was that on two computers, we received an error message about " 'unhandled exception' "and " 'child' is not a child control of this parent."

 

Has anyone else had this error. Can't find anything on the RM site about it.

 

Thanks.

 

Lee.

[CyberNerd]

'child' is not a child control of this parent

 

lol, glad to see RM are working out this educating children thing.

[Snuffkins]

I've spent the last couple of weeks trying to get this all setup and it's been driving me nuts... lol... Everytime you turn a corner you have another error in front of you and the instructions don't tell you certain things that you need to know which is nice.

 

Before i even got the school accredited i had a problem. Had the email from RM for my logon on details. It said the following are your username and password, but only gave me the user name. Not a big problem i know but just every little thing that can go wrong has so far. I'm slowly getting there though.

 

I can't believe how long this has been piloted for and it's still full of problems...

 

Nevermind i'll carry on and get it finished and stop ranting

[beeswax]

thought some of you might want to go into the weekend with these thoughts

 

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/teachers/issue42/secondary/features/Puttingittothetest/

 

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/teachers/issue43/secondary/news/QCAKS3ICT/

 

beeswax

[Snuffkins]

"The Key Stage 3 ICT test is gaining an international reputation as one of the most innovative on-screen assessments available."

 

Innovative it maybe, more trouble than it's worth it definatly is...

 

How long does it take for the tests to automatically download? I've been waiting a while now and they're starting it Wednesday and i'm getting a little concerned . Does anyone know if it can be forced?

 

Has anyone noticed how many mistakes there are in there guides? I'm not one for using manuals but in this case you have to go through step by step changing the mistakes.

 

For example it says "log on as technical manager and click on manage tests within the tests menu" Which doesn't display as technical manager. So thinking logically i logged on as a test manager and bingo there it was...

 

I must admit it is giving me a good chuckle. I thought i could laugh or cry and laughing has just seemed the best option lol.

[broc]

I have just received an email from [email protected] asking me to complete two feedback questionnaires, one for Installation and the other for Accreditation. I can't bring myself to reply ... yet!

 

Our ICT Coordinator asked me to 'keep it clean' .

 

So, we may all have the chance to say what we think directly to QCA/RM very soon.

 

Brian

[alan-d]

I just completed ours but as I've said before we didn't have any problems (*hugs tree to touch wood*).

 

Kids are being let loose on it on Tuesday though (*crosses fingers, toes, legs etc*)

[StewartKnight]

bl@@dy typical, I've installed the client on each PC manually, and guess what, I get an email to reinstall the latest client, as the old one has so many bugs!!!! GGGRRRR

[ninjabeaver]

My school was piloting it last year. It was just so much hassle. I hated it from the word go. The interface was total garbage, nothing like the 'real world' scenario in which it was meant to be run. RM were spouting the 'We will make it a generic interface'. Why in Gods name? Make it an MS interface so at least the students know what it looks like.

 

Installation was reasonably straight forward, but as mentioned earlier, the client side was a totall pain.

 

Anyone starting to run it, then I salute you and wish you all the luck with it. Even our most intelligent students had trouble deciphering the tiny screen they got to use when interacting with the tests.

 

As you can probably guessed, we dropped it after the start of all the disasters.

 

Just pure drivel and time wasting exercise. AVOID!

[russdev]

yep but in two years you HAVE to do it so might as well being sorting problems out now

 

russ

[plexer]

2 Years is a long time they'll probably be onto the next latest, greatest toy to play with in 2 years.

 

Ben

[CyberNerd]

The whole point of the pilot is so that they can see their problems.

They will come to their senses and re-write it as a rich-content web application. Rich content apps like (openlaszlo/ajax for example) can still work with network failure, would require a single point of install and are platform independant.

Being 'rich' content they can have the funtionality that is written into the KS3 software and give everyone an easier time installing it.

 

RM are just trying to do this on the cheap. Thats their job.

[webman]

I'd tend to agree with you 100% there CyberNerd. Education software in web application format are incredibly versatile. All the client needs is a web browser, plus they're accessible from virtually anywhere. A breeze to install for us, too

[CyberNerd]

Why in Gods name? Make it an MS interface so at least the students know what it looks like.

 

I was thinking about this on the way home...

 

Well, some schools already don't use Microsoft Office and some are looking for a get-out. Office12 is reported to have a significantly different UI than previous versions, so that wouldn't really help. Openoffice/StarOffice already meets the course specifications and are free to schools. So when MS forces us to upgrade to Office12 will you be training all your teachers?, or will you switch them to a UI that they are already familiar with that will prevent further lock-in. I'd rather see the MS money spent on training, new equipment or educational resources.

 

RM have already done MS proud in their implementation of KS3. If I were an RM exec I'd already be asking MS for a hefty backhander by preventing a (mandatory) application from running on Open Source Software at a time when OSS is gaining momentum on the Desktop. RM's current solution to Linux desktops -> go buy Active Directory and Citrix.

 

I just think that a mandatory government scheme should force feeding children any proprietry system. For a parent to buy their child Full MS office with publisher/Access is £350+ windows (pcworld).

 

A generic interface is fine with me.

[Quackers]

We find the interface is the problem to. The tasks are not hard, but the Wordprocessor and other apps are so difficult to use.

 

At least open office looks and feels very close to MS office, so the kids would be able to switch without problems. But this joke of an interface on the KS3 tests is so un-userfriendly its not funny. Its taken days for the IT teachers to get use to this highly primiative interface, and they still cannot do all the things they want in it.

 

We are now wasting our time teaching the kids how to use an interface they will never see or use again in the life. Its stupid. I think it should look and feel the same as Microsoft Office or Open Office then you would know where you are.

 

I knew this KS3 Test software would be an absoulute pain the second i saw the RM logon attached to the letter, the second they are involved things get silly.

[alan-d]

I just think that a mandatory government scheme should force feeding children any proprietry system. For a parent to buy their child Full MS office with publisher/Access is £350+ windows (pcworld).

 

Parents and teachers can buy it for approx £80 which will install onto 5 PCs. Got mine from Amazon about 12 months ago.

 

I'm all for OSS in schools but it must reflect what is being used by businesses. Until OSS can match all the bells and whistles offered by MS and Lotus that businesses want we should be careful not to wonder too far away from what is considered to be the industry standard. Afterall we are supposed to be training the kids to run the country in the future.

[CyberNerd]

Parents and teachers can buy it for approx £80 which will install onto 5 PCs. Got mine from Amazon about 12 months ago.

 

I was refering to the full edition, the student edition does not include access/publisher. Still £80

 

I'm all for OSS in schools but it must reflect what is being used by businesses.

 

I disagree. Its a chicken or egg situation. Educational software is about teaching concepts, not deciding what business should be using. You think your current year 7's are going to be using office2k3 whan they get a job?

 

Until OSS can match all the bells and whistles offered by MS and Lotus

 

When the curriculum demands SAP/VoIP integration for a word processor then fine.

 

.. back to topic -> KS3 ICT tests teh suxxorz

[GrumbleDook]

We find the interface is the problem to. The tasks are not hard, but the Wordprocessor and other apps are so difficult to use.

 

At least open office looks and feels very close to MS office, so the kids would be able to switch without problems. But this joke of an interface on the KS3 tests is so un-userfriendly its not funny. Its taken days for the IT teachers to get use to this highly primiative interface, and they still cannot do all the things they want in it.

 

We are now wasting our time teaching the kids how to use an interface they will never see or use again in the life. Its stupid. I think it should look and feel the same as Microsoft Office or Open Office then you would know where you are.

 

Without sounding like I'm some strange bloke who likes to argue a lot ...

 

Bloody hell ... have never heard of transferable skills?

 

Don't teach the kids to use an application ... teach them lots of different applications and how to adapt to use the different interfaces. We don't want everything to look the same ... we want them to learn how to adapt.

 

The fact that they are having to learn something other the M$ Office or an M$ Office clone is a good thing. They should be doing more of it ... using photoshop, fireworks and GIMP ... using publisher and scribus and other DTP packages ... audacity and cool edit pro ... Windows XP, Mac OS X and various flavours of Linux ...

 

Give them a variety so they learn the skills to change. After all, what they are taught in schools now is not going to be what they get out into the real world.

 

The major gripe I have is that because this is not going on in earlier years it means that teachers have to spend such a long time teaching the kids how to take the test rather than having already taught them about swapping between different systems.

 

There ... rant over ... not so much aimed at you Quaker, but aimed at the short sightedness of some ICT Departments.

 

I knew this KS3 Test software would be an absoulute pain the second i saw the RM logon attached to the letter, the second they are involved things get silly.

 

But who else was going to run it? Would you have allowed Heinnenman, Pearson Longman or Nelson Thorne (this progam will only work if you install this part of the server on one machine, this part on another and the last part on your DC, and agree to lower all security settings on your machines to allow for it to work!)?

 

Better the devil you know in this case.

[Quackers]

We find the interface is the problem to. The tasks are not hard, but the Wordprocessor and other apps are so difficult to use.

 

At least open office looks and feels very close to MS office, so the kids would be able to switch without problems. But this joke of an interface on the KS3 tests is so un-userfriendly its not funny. Its taken days for the IT teachers to get use to this highly primiative interface, and they still cannot do all the things they want in it.

 

We are now wasting our time teaching the kids how to use an interface they will never see or use again in the life. Its stupid. I think it should look and feel the same as Microsoft Office or Open Office then you would know where you are.

 

Without sounding like I'm some strange bloke who likes to argue a lot ...

 

Bloody hell ... have never heard of transferable skills?

 

Don't teach the kids to use an application ... teach them lots of different applications and how to adapt to use the different interfaces. We don't want everything to look the same ... we want them to learn how to adapt.

 

The fact that they are having to learn something other the M$ Office or an M$ Office clone is a good thing. They should be doing more of it ... using photoshop, fireworks and GIMP ... using publisher and scribus and other DTP packages ... audacity and cool edit pro ... Windows XP, Mac OS X and various flavours of Linux ...

 

Give them a variety so they learn the skills to change. After all, what they are taught in schools now is not going to be what they get out into the real world.

 

The major gripe I have is that because this is not going on in earlier years it means that teachers have to spend such a long time teaching the kids how to take the test rather than having already taught them about swapping between different systems.

 

There ... rant over ... not so much aimed at you Quaker, but aimed at the short sightedness of some ICT Departments.

 

I knew this KS3 Test software would be an absoulute pain the second i saw the RM logon attached to the letter, the second they are involved things get silly.

 

But who else was going to run it? Would you have allowed Heinnenman, Pearson Longman or Nelson Thorne (this progam will only work if you install this part of the server on one machine, this part on another and the last part on your DC, and agree to lower all security settings on your machines to allow for it to work!)?

 

Better the devil you know in this case.

 

 

I agree that the kids should be able to transfer skills between applications, but its the quality of the apps in this program that are the problem, they are dire. Like it or not Microsoft Office or Open Office are the interfaces the kids are going to see for a very long time and is used in a lot of companys in the world that they will one day work for.

 

 

As for who else to do the testing software, well Heinnenman testing software i have installed has been a breeze, Science and Geography stuff we have with them.

 

Edexcel Key Skills online testing was very good compared to this, installed quicker and easier. Tests are allocated easier. Works quite like the RM one, you have a server locally that gets the tests from the main center and you have a client on the workstations, seems they managed to do a good job.

 

This KS3 ICT one does not even automatically pull the tests down from the server, you have to allocate them.

 

All i have seen so far on the whole is very negative comments on this testing software which means they have done something very wrong.

[kingswood]

Good points from all.

 

Tony, you said: "Don't teach the kids to use an application ... teach them lots of different applications and how to adapt to use the different interfaces. We don't want everything to look the same ... we want them to learn how to adapt."

 

Yep- I agree. Transferable skills and adaptation are all important things to target in education and I'm not sure we are doing enough to help. However, you can only do this if the staff and technical support bods have the time to teach all these different applications you would like them to use. And from what I see staff at schools (meaning teaching staff) have finite time already and some who teach ICT are stretched to the limit learning what they need to teach the things they have to *now* without telling them they also need to learn and teach this, that, or the other word processor, spreadhseet, OSS application etc etc.

 

Whether we like it or not, (and it isn't that bad) MS Office is the standard in business right now. When the students leave school, the skills they learn using MS Office (macros, access, word processing) will stand them well when they enter university or college and want to use those skills to support them through the next phase of the education. On top of that if some of them enter the work-place they will find that the skills they were given in school are fully transferable to office life because they use the same applications.

 

I would love to see Open Office move mainstream. I would love Linux to be in the core group of skills the curriculum needs to pass on. OS X? I think you will know what I think about that. But in the real world- right now- what we all need to do is pass on the skills that the curriculum has targeted as the basis for an underlying skills set in ICT. And that includes MS Office.

 

So- why have RM changed all that? lol! If the staff are having to re-train themselves and the students to take tests that are based on a curriculum that supposedly tests their ability in ICT at KS3- why the hell are RM re-writing the rules and trashing the interface the students will work with for several years of their lives and have probably already used (even Works has a similar interface to Word)?

 

So, what is happening (and what I am reading here) is that staff and students are spending their time getting to grips with the testing interface instead of assessing the level if ICT knowledge a student has and using that information to target areas that need to be improved.

 

Me.Close