Tesla Model 3

[sted]

May I ask how often you go on these long journeys? Only, with the majority of people, long journeys are an exception rather than the norm. Leading to people to buy a car for the "occasional" rather than what they do every day. Whereas, you could rent a vehicle for those occasional long trips, for example. A 2 week rental on something like an Insignia is about £250.

 

Of course, if you're going on these long trips every week, then that's a different matter, but if you're doing it only a couple of times a year then you may be shooting yourself in the foot.

the problem with renting for long journeys is that for me a lot of the longer journeys i do are pretty much spur of the moment. so i might decide to go to the touring cars in Scotland but i will decide on the day if the weather looks decent and i wake up early enough to drive there from Leeds so there is no way realistically i could do it. Now in a 2 car household thats an easier sell one car can be an ice one an ev that gets more evs out there so improves the network for them. 95% of the time i could probably manage with a 100 mile range car but it makes that other 5% a real pita (even going to the office which i do rarely is 65-70 miles thats without detours so if i need to add an extra stop in my day it could be a problem i just dont have with an ice car)

[mavhc]

Turns out being able to drive 400 miles for entertainment on a whim isn't sustainable, who knew. Can't watch birds when they're all dead.

 

Not sure I've stayed anywhere that's >15 metres from a power socket though. Extension cable out the window, free charging.

[bald_pig]

Not sure I've stayed anywhere that's >15 metres from a power socket though. Extension cable out the window, free charging.

 

I have, and I'm sure plenty others have too. If only you had a vehicle that allowed you to experience this...

[sted]

Turns out being able to drive 400 miles for entertainment on a whim isn't sustainable, who knew. Can't watch birds when they're all dead.

Not sure I've stayed anywhere that's >15 metres from a power socket though. Extension cable out the window, free charging.

but its the current norm and going to a system thats worse is just something as a society we dont generally do. and yes you can charge an ev from a domestic 13amp socket but isnt that incredibly slow great if youre staying overnight less so if youre not. again back to infrastructure im fine i have plugs in my garage but the house i live in has 4 garages under it 3 of them dont have power and there is nowhere on street to charge at best there are 2 lampposts in terrible places for running cables from

[Andrew_C]

Extension cable out the window, free charging.

Across a pavement? That isn't going to work out "free" once you've tripped someone and get sued.

[casey]

I think it's the pretentious waffle from the drivers...

 

Nothing was incorrect with anything in the comment you replied to with the above.

 

Most EVs are very fast off the lights, not necessarily going to beat every other car on the road but I've seen enough surprised faces when my little Zoe leaves the line at the lights to know that's true.

 

Nottingham (where @mavhc seems to hail from) allows EVs to use bus lanes, possibly the only place in the country but other UK citys are considering it.

 

The Nissan Leaf has indeed appreciated in value over the last couple of years, plenty of people have traded in an old Leaf for the same amount they paid originally, after putting thousands of miles on them.

 

The fuel costs are much less than an ICE vehicle, even if electricity was the same cost as petrol the efficiency of electric motors vastly outweighs the efficiency of any ICE engine.

Even in the most efficient ICE engine more than two thirds of the fuel is wasted in the form of heat and friction.

 

I get that you are (or appear to be) anti EV and whilst I agree they are not yet the solution for everyone, tens, or even hundreds, of thousands of drivers could change over but they don't. Very often the reason for this is because of the ridiculous myths that are still perpetuated about them, some of which are no longer true and some which were never correct in the first place.

 

The reason for the 'pretentious waffle' is to try and counter the complete nonsense that is spouted by a vocal minority who seem to have a problem with EVs.

Edited May 22, 2019 by casey

[Andrew_C]

I think the reason (most?) many people aren't changing is that few of us buy new cars. If I were rich enough, I would certainly consider it; but for now, I'll be buying used ICE until there is a pool of second hand battery jobs driving the prices down.

 

No, it wouldn't pay for itself. Not with battery rental at a lot more than my fuel costs.

[mavhc]

Best solution is to do what Norway does, 100% tax on non battery cars, thus all new cars will be EV, and we can buy cheap EV cars in a few years when those ones are now used.

[bald_pig]

Nothing was incorrect with anything in the comment you replied to with the above.

 

Most EVs are very fast off the lights, not necessarily going to beat every other car on the road but I've seen enough surprised faces when my little Zoe leaves the line at the lights to know that's true.

 

Nottingham (where @mavhc seems to hail from) allows EVs to use bus lanes, possibly the only place in the country but other UK citys are considering it.

 

The Nissan Leaf has indeed appreciated in value over the last couple of years, plenty of people have traded in an old Leaf for the same amount they paid originally, after putting thousands of miles on them.

 

The fuel costs are much less than an ICE vehicle, even if electricity was the same cost as petrol the efficiency of electric motors vastly outweighs the efficiency of any ICE engine.

Even in the most efficient ICE engine more than two thirds of the fuel is wasted in the form of heat and friction.

 

I get that you are (or appear to be) anti EV and whilst I agree they are not yet the solution for everyone, tens, or even hundreds, of thousands of drivers could change over but they don't. Very often the reason for this is because of the ridiculous myths that are still perpetuated about them, some of which are no longer true and some which were never correct in the first place.

 

The reason for the 'pretentious waffle' is to try and counter the complete nonsense that is spouted by a vocal minority who seem to have a problem with EVs.

 

I'm not anti-EV at all, they just aren't ready for mass adoption yet, and evangelists spouting the benefits every 30 seconds and getting uppity when anyone dares suggest that their use of a vehicle makes an EV unsuitable for them just doesn't help things!

[mavhc]

Self driving cars will solve the problem in 5 years anyway.

 

When I'm on holiday I just charge overnight with a 13A socket. If I'm visiting somewhere with no plugs for 40 miles around then I would be in trouble.

[TechMonkey]

Looking at the Zap Map there are more charging points than I thought there would be in the Lake District. May need a bit of forethought but still doable.

 

But as sted said, the issue is currently no thought is needed. Jump in car, go, stop at services if needed, carry on. Whereas with an EV you need to look before hand and plan your day. It's not impossible but it takes a bit of work and is a break from the current standard.

[mavhc]

No thought needed is how we got global warming, which lead to mass migration, which lead to nationalism, which lead to brexit, in the first place

[bald_pig]

No thought needed is how we got global warming, which lead to mass migration, which lead to nationalism, which lead to brexit, in the first place

 

Do you have any data to back that claim?

[houlta]

No thought needed is how we got global warming, which lead to mass migration, which lead to nationalism, which lead to brexit, in the first place

 

IMHO the mass migration has happened with a lack of investment in higher education in the UK to train up our own to fill those much needed job positions and Libya turning into a basket case along with no action taken against Boko Haram in Africa.

 

Climate change while very real has had little or nothing to do with immigration motivated by people who want to get away from poverty and violence.

 

As for Brexit that was started by an arrogant individual who put his own self interests before those of the country he was prime minister of.

[houlta]

Looking at the Zap Map there are more charging points than I thought there would be in the Lake District. May need a bit of forethought but still doable.

 

But as sted said, the issue is currently no thought is needed. Jump in car, go, stop at services if needed, carry on. Whereas with an EV you need to look before hand and plan your day. It's not impossible but it takes a bit of work and is a break from the current standard.

 

There's some going in just recently.

Booths Kirkby Lonsdale has standard chargers and Tebay M6 Services has zip chargers. No more zip chargers on the M6 though til you get to charnock richard further south.

Some pubs round the lakes do charging but it's the usual 30amps at the most if you are lucky.

[localzuk]

the problem with renting for long journeys is that for me a lot of the longer journeys i do are pretty much spur of the moment. so i might decide to go to the touring cars in Scotland but i will decide on the day if the weather looks decent and i wake up early enough to drive there from Leeds so there is no way realistically i could do it. Now in a 2 car household thats an easier sell one car can be an ice one an ev that gets more evs out there so improves the network for them. 95% of the time i could probably manage with a 100 mile range car but it makes that other 5% a real pita (even going to the office which i do rarely is 65-70 miles thats without detours so if i need to add an extra stop in my day it could be a problem i just dont have with an ice car)

So my thought on that would be that maybe we as a species need to stop and think about our actions - sometimes those spur of the moment things aren't exactly great for the planet. If we are to survive the climate emergency, we all need to start reigning our world damaging habits in a bit.

 

Also, there are close to 20,000 charging points around the UK now - for many "spur of the moment" trips, you'll still be going near charging points.

[casey]

I think the reason (most?) many people aren't changing is that few of us buy new cars. If I were rich enough, I would certainly consider it; but for now, I'll be buying used ICE until there is a pool of second hand battery jobs driving the prices down.

 

No, it wouldn't pay for itself. Not with battery rental at a lot more than my fuel costs.

 

The old battery rental raises it's head again, there is precisely one model, count 'em, just one, on sale in the UK with battery rental.

 

And that is optional, you can buy the car outright, but the majority who buy the Renault Zoe (for this is the one) choose not to.

 

I'm well aware that many can't run to a new car and many more decide to do something different with their money even if they can afford it.

 

There is a pool of second hand EVs, albeit a small one, and if someone was just after a sort range commuter car there are some out there in the £5000-£6000 area.

 

The Mitsubishi iMiev/Citroen C Zero/Peugeot Ion (known as the triplet, its the same car) are a case in point. If you can live with the 'quirky' :)design and low range.

[TechMonkey]

There's some going in just recently.

Booths Kirkby Lonsdale has standard chargers and Tebay M6 Services has zip chargers. No more zip chargers on the M6 though til you get to charnock richard further south.

Some pubs round the lakes do charging but it's the usual 30amps at the most if you are lucky.

 

Seems to be a good number of fast chargers and even a rapid one in Ambleside.

[Andrew_C]

you'll still be going near charging points.

Doesn't help much if there's someone sat on it (or queued) when you need a charge and are on a deadline.

 

A better long term fix (I think) would be to sort out the railways for long distance travel, buses/trams for local, and accessible and affordable electric hire available if you need to move stuff or are off routes. This could be glorified golf buggies around towns.

 

That however, would need central control and funding. It ain't going to happen with the tories in govt, or if we are going cap-in-hand to the US for trade deals.

[houlta]

Seems to be a good number of fast chargers and even a rapid one in Ambleside.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]53522[/ATTACH]

 

Yep Low Fold car park is the same as Kirkby Lonsdale, should be 50kW approx. (sorry by 'zip' I meant Tesla chargers 120kW, these are Charnock Richard M6 and Tebay services on M6 southbound)

Edited May 22, 2019 by houlta

[houlta]

So my thought on that would be that maybe we as a species need to stop and think about our actions - sometimes those spur of the moment things aren't exactly great for the planet. If we are to survive the climate emergency, we all need to start reigning our world damaging habits in a bit.

 

Also, there are close to 20,000 charging points around the UK now - for many "spur of the moment" trips, you'll still be going near charging points.

 

Personally I'd like to see a push towards molten salt thorium reactors. Just India and China looking at it at the moment?

[Andrew_C]

Personally I'd like to see a push towards molten salt thorium reactors.

In the boot of your DeLorean? Now that's one car I'd buy!

[mavhc]

Personally I'd like to see a push towards molten salt thorium reactors. Just India and China looking at it at the moment?

 

Can't wait for that, start today building 3000 nuclear power stations per year worldwide, or we're screwed

[mavhc]

Do you have any data to back that claim?

 

https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/WCAS-D-13-00059.1

 

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/341/6151/1235367

 

https://www.accord.org.za/ajcr-issues/%EF%BF%BCenvironmental-causes-and-impacts-of-the-genocide-in-rwanda/

 

https://www.eenews.net/stories/1060118349

 

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0011392117717294

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_vote_in_favour_of_Brexit

[houlta]

In the boot of your DeLorean? Now that's one car I'd buy!

 

Heh, those Deloreans are worth a mint now, if you can find any in one piece