The last version of Windows - Where do Microsoft go from here?

[DJ-1701]

To be fair, the issues you talk about could affect any competitors devices. Although to a much less extent viruses... until someone sees the worth in targeting viruses to that particular OS.

The amount of times I have been asked questions about peoples personal iOS devices at work, including update failures, it isn't funny.

[CyberNerd]

We're not using historic applications, we are using the market leading software in our industry which win a lot of awards for their software.

 

I also like to host our own data and we've invested heavily in our own infrastructure. And we know we have total control over our data and know it is secure.

 

I was meaning historic applications in a backwards thinking, locally installed way, not that they are actually old.

It's good that your network is secure and nobody can get to your gata. I have a team of Google engineers constantly monitoring our school network looking for problems, applying patches, fixing hardware - so I didn't need to invest quite so heavily in the infrastructure. We spent the money on teaching and learning instead.

 

 

@flyinghaggis I couldn't agree more with your last post. I think it really hit the nail on the head. Next year will be the year of the windows mobile!

[sted]

 

@flyinghaggis I couldn't agree more with your last post. I think it really hit the nail on the head. Next year will be the year of the windows mobile!

i think "next" year will always be the year of windows mobile in that it will always promise lots and never deliver. Windows phone 8/8.1 and to some degree windows rt are good mobile os'es from a daily use point of view i much much prefer the simplicity of windows phone to the fragmented messy hell thats android or ios, BUT and its a big but unless and until there are apps for windows phone that are good (just look at the winphone facebook app its a pile of rubbish the mobile website is better) its never going to get any traction and go anywhere. Just a quick think about apps i know exist and would use if i had them (and im not a heavy app user) brings up remote record etc for my youview box, banking app (mobile website sort of works badly iirc), chromecast to throw stuff at hifi/tv, theres an app for my car (not sure if its useful or not but it exists). Windows 10 universal apps may fix that but honestly i think its more likely it will do naff all and windows for most HOME users will slowly wither away and die as people more and more become consumers than creators

[LeMarchand]

BUT and its a big but unless and until there are apps for windows phone that are good (just look at the winphone facebook app its a pile of rubbish the mobile website is better) its never going to get any traction and go anywhere. Just a quick think about apps i know exist and would use if i had them (and im not a heavy app user) brings up remote record etc for my youview box, banking app (mobile website sort of works badly iirc), chromecast to throw stuff at hifi/tv, theres an app for my car (not sure if its useful or not but it exists). Windows 10 universal apps may fix that but honestly i think its more likely it will do naff all and windows for most HOME users will slowly wither away and die as people more and more become consumers than creators

 

I've been considering a new phone recently, and the only thing I can't find that I would like for WM is an equivalent to VeraCrypt. That said, I'm not sure there's anything like that for any other phone OS. However, I'm not a social media user (this forum is about as social as I get). I can see the point of some apps, but - say - IMDb, what's the point? There is a perfectly good website. Ditto banking apps. Unfortunately Apple and Google have successfully programmed the public to expect everything to have an app .

[sted]

I've been considering a new phone recently, and the only thing I can't find that I would like for WM is an equivalent to VeraCrypt. That said, I'm not sure there's anything like that for any other phone OS. However, I'm not a social media user (this forum is about as social as I get). I can see the point of some apps, but - say - IMDb, what's the point? There is a perfectly good website. Ditto banking apps. Unfortunately Apple and Google have successfully programmed the public to expect everything to have an app .

 

an app is useful for certain things as mobile websites just dont always work well and like my youview box it needs pairing with a phone (presumably as some sort of security thing) and they dont offer a web based version so if i want to remotely add a recording ive forgotten unless i have ios/android im boned. I do agree about a lot of apps imdb yeah just use the website though

[LeMarchand]

an app is useful for certain things as mobile websites just dont always work well and like my youview box it needs pairing with a phone (presumably as some sort of security thing) and they dont offer a web based version so if i want to remotely add a recording ive forgotten unless i have ios/android im boned. I do agree about a lot of apps imdb yeah just use the website though

 

I don't even know what a youview box is! As for websites, can't you turn off mobile view if necessary?

 

I have thought of a Windows/Mobile missing "app" that bugs (but doesn't directly affect) me: digital magazines. Why, when there are plenty of technologies that are cross platform, are these mainly locked to iOS and - fairly recently only - Android?

[Arthur]

(just look at the winphone Facebook app it's a pile of rubbish the mobile website is better) it's never going to get any traction and go anywhere.

Not having a Facebook app is probably a good thing! It drains the battery too much...

 

http://m.androidcentral.com/it-turns-out-uninstalling-facebook-android-pretty-great

 

Facebook's website also includes support for Chrome's push notifications on Android so the app isn't necessary at all.

 

Given time, websites should get better optimised for mobile devices.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Arthur

[sted]

I don't even know what a youview box is! As for websites, can't you turn off mobile view if necessary?

 

I have thought of a Windows/Mobile missing "app" that bugs (but doesn't directly affect) me: digital magazines. Why, when there are plenty of technologies that are cross platform, are these mainly locked to iOS and - fairly recently only - Android?

youview is a freeview pvr with some "extra stuff". the trouble with turning off mobile view is a if often seems to not work anyway and still show the mobile site (and it seems to be all or nothing cant be set on a site by site basis) b the phone dosent seem to support everything like a pc browser would and c the sheer amount of scrolling

[JATSO]

Interesting thread this one, looking after 4 Primary and one Nursery, we have had a few apple devices turn up we use the learnpads because they are easily managed but Windows is the dominant OS.

 

We only have 4 Windows 10 PC's and it is unlikely that they will move to Windows 10 complete until the the death of a pc or someone comes up with the cash to refresh the kit. (Highly unlikely)

 

As for business, well when your walk into PC world and they are still using Windows XP you think that some will never change. "If it isn't broke, don't try and fix it"

Edited January 22, 2016 by JATSO

[LeMarchand]

youview is a freeview pvr with some "extra stuff". the trouble with turning off mobile view is a if often seems to not work anyway and still show the mobile site (and it seems to be all or nothing cant be set on a site by site basis) b the phone dosent seem to support everything like a pc browser would and c the sheer amount of scrolling

 

Fair dos. Can't remember any problems with Opera on my old WM 6.5 phone, but I tend to use a tablet or PC for most browsing past the "Amazon price check" level.

[sted]

Fair dos. Can't remember any problems with Opera on my old WM 6.5 phone, but I tend to use a tablet or PC for most browsing past the "Amazon price check" level.

same here to a large degree i use the phone for quick things or when im out and probably dont have any other connected device to hand

[JoeBloggs]

I have a team of Google engineers constantly monitoring our school network looking for problems, applying patches, fixing hardware - so I didn't need to invest quite so heavily in the infrastructure. We spent the money on teaching and learning instead.

 

This sounds quite interesting. What sort of agreement do you have with Google? Do they come to site to fix hardware?

 

We have Google Apps for web filtering (previously Google Positini) so takes a slight load off - but all changes are chargeable if I don't do them myself!

[flyinghaggis]

Rumours abound that MS are planning on releasing new Surface phones next year after saying Windows phone isn't their focus this year?

 

Microsoft may release three different Surface Phones, likely in 2017

 

Not really sure where they're going with this as their Nokia exclusivity deal expires at the end of this year. Presumably after that Nokia will start bringing out Android handsets so they have a hope of competing with the other big players out there as the MS deal hasn't exactly worked out well for them? I don't see many other OEMs supporting the platform after Nokia start backing away from it.

 

Do you guys think the comments are double-speak for MS acknowledging that Windows Phone/Mobile (in it's current form at least) is a defunct platform or do they genuinely believe there's still a future in it ?

Edited April 7, 2016 by flyinghaggis

[gshaw]

Perhaps they'll market it as a full Windows PC that you can carry around in the pocket and as a bonus doubles up as a phone, rather than trying to compete in the smartphone market against iOS and Android where the battle is lost

[LeMarchand]

Perhaps they'll market it as a full Windows PC that you can carry around in the pocket and as a bonus doubles up as a phone

 

That's exactly what I want, and I don't see why it's not happening already.

[CAM]

Windows Phone is dead. They faffed about instead of releasing it's update alongside Windows 10 on desktop and lost an opportunity to showcase their unified app system during the window of release hype. All they did was haemorrhage users and developers to Android and now I have barely touched the Windows Store on desktop. Only thing it's done is get in the way of my upgrade from Windows 8 fresh install to 8.1 because my credit card on file had expired event though it's a free update.

[Arthur]

I don't see many other OEMs supporting the platform after Nokia start backing away from it.

HP released a brand new Windows Phone in February so they must think there is a market (even if it's small)?

 

http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/02/hp-elite-x3-a-flagship-windows-phone-thats-unambiguously-enterprisey

 

HP is positioning the machine squarely at corporate, enterprise customers. HP sells a lot of PCs to the enterprise, and some of those corporate buyers have expressed the interest in buying their smartphones from the company too to simplify procurement and support. Accordingly, it's heavily promoting the phone's security credentials: not only the dual biometrics, but FIPS 140-2 cryptography, 256-bit key full disk encryption, TPM 2.0, protection against firmware rollbacks, and so on.

 

Given Microsoft's strengths in the enterprise market—it has a lock on the corporate desktop, Windows Server is widely found in the server room, and its management tools such as Active Directory, System Center, and Intune are used to control hundreds of millions of machines—this corporate positioning makes some sense. The Universal Windows Platform provides a solid basis for building corporate line-of-business apps that'll run with only a little adaptation and modification on desktop systems, smartphones, and tablets, and Windows 10 Mobile fits neatly into the existing line-up of management tools.

 

Such advantages are a common feature of any Windows device, but the x3 goes a step further in a rather unusual way. In a lot of regards the Elite x3 is not just a smartphone; HP is building a device that could be the successor to all manner of weird and wonderful industrial devices using the old Windows Mobile. Far away from consumer markets, there were hundreds of handheld machines integrating things like credit card readers, barcode scanners, printers, and much more besides, all running Windows Mobile, typically with a resistive touchscreen and perhaps even a hardware keyboard.

 

HP has built the x3 to tap into this market, thanks to its most unusual feature: 5 Pogo pin contacts on the back. HP's ambition is that third parties will be able to build an array of sleeves that fit over the phone to give it the extra capabilities it needs to meet all these industrial needs. The Pogo pins will be exposed to applications on the phone so that line-of-business apps will be able to use the additional hardware contained within the sleeves. The sleeves will also be able to include extended batteries.

 

Perhaps they'll market it as a full Windows PC that you can carry around in the pocket and as a bonus doubles up as a phone, rather than trying to compete in the smartphone market against iOS and Android where the battle is lost

HP is sort of doing that already. From the article above...

 

HP is also doubling down on Windows 10 Mobile's other big feature: Continuum, using the phone to drive a mouse, keyboard, and monitor, and run something resembling full desktop apps. To that end, the company is building two accessories for the x3. The first is the Desk Dock, which is very similar in purpose to the dock that Microsoft has for the Lumia 950 and 950 XL. The phone sits on the dock, connecting to it with its Type-C connector, and the dock sports a DisplayPort, two USB Type-A, one Type-C, and RJ-45 Ethernet ports. The design is arguably a little neater than Microsoft's dock, as the phone plugs directly into it rather than at the end of another cable, though the downside to this is that it makes using the phone while docked more awkward.

 

The second accessory is the Mobile Extender. It's basically a laptop without any working parts of its own. It contains a battery, a 1920×1080 12.5 inch screen, and a keyboard, but no intelligence. For that, it depends on the x3, connected over USB Type-C. This isn't the first time a company has tried to build a sort of "laptop dock" for a phone, but the high performance of the phone itself, combined with the fact that this is now a built-in capability of the operating system, thanks to Continuum, may give the idea some legs.

 

http://i.cubeupload.com/1Ptk3d.jpg

[LeMarchand]

HP is sort of doing that already.

 

Unfortunately (as much as I'd love the phone) I still don't think it runs "Windows" programs natively. IIRC there's some jiggery pokery to get certain ones to work, but you can't just load up anything you fancy.

[PrimaryNetMan]

HP released a brand new Windows Phone in February so they must think there is a market (even if it's small)?

 

That doesn't mean anything. HP TouchPad / WebOS anyone?

[LeMarchand]

That doesn't mean anything. HP TouchPad / WebOS anyone?

 

I think HP have developed the Elite x3 in conjunction with a few big corps who specifically wanted Windows Phones for various reasons. I'm guessing this means they have pre-sales.

[Arthur]

That doesn't mean anything. HP TouchPad / WebOS anyone?

webOS didn't stand a chance after Léo Apotheker (a.k.a. Mad Léo) became HPs CEO.

 

www.theverge.com/2012/6/5/3062611/palm-webos-hp-inside-story-pre-postmortem

 

Unfortunately (as much as I'd love the phone) I still don't think it runs "Windows" programs natively.

The main problem with legacy Windows desktop apps is that would require a phone with an x86 SoC to run. Considering how unpopular Intel's processors are in Android devices I don't see Microsoft using anything other than ARM in future Windows 10 phones (which consequently means being limited to WinRT/UWP apps).

[sted]

its a shame as as a phone/email/web client windows phone is great it just works its much much better than android. But as a device its pointless theres no apps for it and i just dont see that ever changing. ive given up on it and retired my nokia 925 and bought a nexus 5x i wish it wasnt necessary as i still prefer the nokia but it just so limiting

[LeMarchand]

But as a device its pointless theres no apps for it and i just dont see that ever changing.

 

It would change if they used my plan of allowing "real" programs. That said, I've found all the apps I need and so far haven't had to buy one (though will probably pay a quid or two when I've decided which astronomy app I prefer). Sat nav is a bit lacking so far - now that HERE has given MS the elbow, but still got a few to try (though might just pay for CoPilot).

[sted]

It would change if they used my plan of allowing "real" programs. That said, I've found all the apps I need and so far haven't had to buy one (though will probably pay a quid or two when I've decided which astronomy app I prefer). Sat nav is a bit lacking so far - now that HERE has given MS the elbow, but still got a few to try (though might just pay for CoPilot).

 

it wont devlopers wont do a 3rd system they will only do ios/android unless ms start literally paying them. Apps i use i couldnt on my windows phone youview to set remote recordings on my digibox, bank app if i wanted to use it on windows phone i needed to use website so needed to carry round the chip and pin reader, remote for my tv (yes i know but some things are easier on a phone than the actual remote) control of my internet radio, amazon music, the microsoft authenticator app on android is miles better than the windows one for some reason, its much easier to do meter readings in an app, radio player. As i said i wish windows phone would get these things but it just wont it will as far as i can see unless by some miracle apple go bust (and i can only hope) and suddenly it becomes the only alternative to android it will always be an also ran good for specific uses and pointless for most people

[LeMarchand]

it wont devlopers wont do a 3rd system they will only do ios/android unless ms start literally paying them. Apps i use i couldnt on my windows phone youview to set remote recordings on my digibox, bank app if i wanted to use it on windows phone i needed to use website so needed to carry round the chip and pin reader, remote for my tv (yes i know but some things are easier on a phone than the actual remote) control of my internet radio, amazon music, the microsoft authenticator app on android is miles better than the windows one for some reason, its much easier to do meter readings in an app, radio player. As i said i wish windows phone would get these things but it just wont it will as far as i can see unless by some miracle apple go bust (and i can only hope) and suddenly it becomes the only alternative to android it will always be an also ran good for specific uses and pointless for most people

 

I can honestly say that none of those usage scenarios are ones that affect me. The only thing that I really miss (and that AFAIK no mobile OS since WinMo 6.5 offers) is proper

on the fly encryption. Otherwise, I frequently use: Alarms, calender and contacts (admittedly need a 3rd party way to sync these to Outlook desktop, which I think is ridiculous), phone, SMS, WhatsApp, weather, email (this does need some work in W10M), camera/photoviewer, dice roller, store card app, local music player, OneNote, browser, SatNav (mentioned a few posts back) and - to my surprise - Cortana. Occasionally use the Amazon scanner for price checks (this is one area where the apps are sorely lacking for me), RSS, Word & Excel, Shazam, Spotify, ebook/comic/PDF readers, Plex, WinPass (KeepPass port).

 

Maybe it's because I don't use social media or the cloud/online services much? Possibly also why I'm interested in the HP Elite x3 (if I could afford it!): I don't need the apps or seem to be a boring businessman!