liveman2 Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 Has anyone here ever considered migrating a school/put a case together to migrate away from the Microsoft world? even say to setup a lab with Macs or running Linux? Just quite interested to hear if anyone ever has and what were the results? Specifically as the IT curriculum has recently changed. I have always personally been a massive fan of the Microsoft bandwagon, however I can imagine that learning linux when I was younger could have been handy. 1
Duranis Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 lol I couldn't even get the teachers here to use Windows 8, let alone Linux
JRA Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 You see, the advantages of Micro$oft gear is that the knowledge is out there with regards to the "why won't this WORK???!?!" 11pm google-panic over Exchange etc. It's just not with Linux as the 'entry level' of knowledge is higher. That's always going to be a very persuasive plus. I've no idea how to apply group policy etc with Linux to Linux clients. I can do some things with skeleton directories and bash scripts but I'd be utterly at sea on a Linux-only network with Linux clients. We do have some Linux clients that I've put Lubuntu and Gofris on, which essentially just open a browser for the kids and once restarted go back to my 'factory' setting (think 'Deep Freeze' for Windows) but that's it. They're 900mhz and 512mb I think and the fastest-booting clients in school. SEN love them. I started learning Linux later on in life. Not too bad, have LPIC cert now. For general advice, if you want to learn it, get a VM and just break it a BUNCH. Don't feel bad, just smash away. For a first project, set up a samba server with winbind so you can restrict access against AD. That's useful and 'feel good'. Then maybe tackle the CompTIA Linux+. You'll find each stage hard going but persevere. Linux is really frustrating. I'll say again, REALLY frustrating if you're used to Windows, but don't let it make you feel stupid as you learn. You're not stupid. Linux is.
Jawloms Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 For me, the over whelming argument for staying with MS is that as a school we are supposed to be preparing students for the real world, and in the real world it is predominantly MS products they will encounter. That is decreasing as more and more tablets are used, but certainly for the moment..... 1
localzuk Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 I looked into it a few years back. Determined that we would be able to do it, but we'd lose access to a variety of software. Now that the world is moving to web based software instead, I could probably say that we could do it now a lot easier - if it weren't for the internet connectivity costs down here. At that point, the client you're using becomes irrelevant anyway!
JRA Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 I looked into it a few years back. Determined that we would be able to do it, but we'd lose access to a variety of software. Now that the world is moving to web based software instead, I could probably say that we could do it now a lot easier - if it weren't for the internet connectivity costs down here. At that point, the client you're using becomes irrelevant anyway! That is a good point, and does sound interesting! Did you have a plan for SIMS (or CMIS)? Was it to be Wine or something else?
localzuk Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 We were looking at moving MIS at the time also, to a web based product instead. 1
cpjitservices Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 I'd had a look into this a while back, it couldnt be done then as access to the likes of Office just wouldnt work on Linux. You could use Open Office but if it doesnt look remotely like Office 2010 users will complain and not use it. I'd looked at Samba 4, and would run with it today. Group policy etc can be done easily on Samba 4. All managed from a local workstation. I'd also be looking at sacking of Hyper-V/VMware at the same time and go with XenServer. These days, I'm sure it could be done. You could probably get away with a Linux thin client. When a user logs in they are then presented with A Web browser window and everything done online. https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Setup_a_Samba_Active_Directory_Domain_Controller
TechMonkey Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 Interesting as I was thinking of running an exercise into this next year, cost up what it would take, including 3rd line support from a company,training to get us up to speed and look at job adverts for Linux Technicians compared to what we were paying now. You see, the advantages of Micro$oft gear is that the knowledge is out there with regards to the "why won't this WORK???!?!" 11pm google-panic over Exchange etc. It's just not with Linux as the 'entry level' of knowledge is higher. That's always going to be a very persuasive plus. I'd slightly disagree that there isn't the Linux knowledge out there. Paid for support is possibly harder to come by rather than random person on the Internet giving advice. I've sorted out Linux issues purely by Google. I would agree that the entry level is higher though. If we were appointing a new tech, even at the term time only apprentice level, we would need to be more sure of their skills. There again, looking for the technical ability and training them up may still apply. For me, the over whelming argument for staying with MS is that as a school we are supposed to be preparing students for the real world, and in the real world it is predominantly MS products they will encounter. That is decreasing as more and more tablets are used, but certainly for the moment..... I'd also slightly disagree with this. The school should be teaching skills and technological confidence, not how to MS. Pupils should leave knowing how to apply the skills they learnt and be able to find what they need, rather then follow a set of prescribed instructions that could change at any moment. How do we know what version of Office or OS a company may use, considering how many are still only now upgrading from XP??!! But I do realise that MS is the lowest common denominator so more likely to used.
Markopolo Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 I'd also look at this: https://www.univention.com/products/ucs/ I use it at home and it rocks. Mark 1
TechMonkey Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 I've no idea how to apply group policy etc with Linux to Linux clients. I can do some things with skeleton directories and bash scripts but I'd be utterly at sea on a Linux-only network with Linux clients. And for future knowledge, from what I've seen you use something like Salt, Chef, Ansible or Puppet to configure Linux installs. Infact I've just learnt that Chef can also control Windows, but I'm not sure to what extent.
Markopolo Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 So can Puppet, with chocolately package management it works really well for desired state configuration on Windows.
Geoff Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 I think end user application support would be your sticking point. If you can get everything on terminal services/cloud based then you'll be fine.
Arthur Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 Linux is really frustrating. Why bother with other Linux distros when Chrome OS is also Linux-based and really easy to manage through the Google Apps management console.
Chuckster Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 A loose friend of mine works at a university and all the workstations he says can be dual-booted to either Windows or Linux. He says all the students who use the computer labs choose Windows. Those on Computer Science courses will only use Linux if it's part of their module or they've been instructed to, otherwise they, too, will always choose Windows. They offer Open Office and Libre Office (both Windows and Red Hat) alongside MS Office (Windows only). Based on usage patterns many students including the faculty use MS Office. For browsers near enough everybody opts for Google Chrome. When I worked for a university a few years ago I never once saw a booted Linux desktop. We provided Red Hat and CentOS but nobody used it. Our programmers used Windows (NetBeans, Visual Studio etc) and do did many of the PhD students. The only people who used Mac OS X were mostly the arts and multimedia students. Those that weren't in the 'arts' would jump on to the iMacs to browse the internet and nothing more. Therefore it brings me to this: if you want to get rid of MS, then go Linux all the way. To spend ridiculous amount of money on Macs would be a colossal waste of money if it's used purely to browse the internet. By all means stick them in the Art classes, Textiles etc, but Linux everywhere. I think you will find people will not want to use Linux. For me, it's either Windows or OS X. I personally dislike Linux. Some Linux distros are made to look like OS X but this is just cheap and nasty. I don't like the GUI as it doesn't look polished enough.
Geoff Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Linux is really good in your server room or running your networking gear. It's also really good in the cloud (either running it, or being run on it). It's also really good in your pocket running on your phone, but that's mostly Google's fault. The Linux desktop, such as it is, is an unsolved problem. I suspect mainly because FOSS does not attract great UI designers. The other issue I think is that it's too much of a culture shock for people coming from Windows. Edited December 7, 2015 by Geoff
localzuk Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 I ran Linux on my uni laptop for the 3 years I was at uni. Worked well for me, but I was willing to fiddle a lot. For general use, it was not ready. Now though? For a home user, its fine. For a school network, it'll require more fiddling than a Windows desktop, but it could definitely do the job - with the major caveat of limited software support.
X-13 Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 For a school network, it'll require more fiddling than a Windows desktop, but it could definitely do the job - with the major caveat of limited software support. What about the Linux Schools project? [iIRC, that was/is @linuxgirlie's baby.] Last time I looked at it, it seemed just as complex and a windows network.
cpjitservices Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) I worked in a college at a previous role, We had a full Linux lab for the learners on Computer Science course and also Cisco CCNA. Fileshares etc where all tied to a Samba Server, mounted shares upon user login. Logins managed by LDAP/389 Server. Everything was CentOS/ Fedora based. CentOS on servers and Fedora on the Desktops. Edited December 7, 2015 by cpjitservices
mthomas08 Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 We attempted the Migration to Linux for "cost saving" but this was before my time. The result? caused a head ache, plug was pulled but the nightmare lasted for a while. I won't consider it, the gains don't outweigh the switch over especially with the annual costs compared to what you are getting. We have things like SIMs and endless amount of software that still require Windows OS's Client/Server side. We've had capability issues in regards to non Windows products. If it's not broke, don't fix it. As already been mentioned a lot of people generally have Windows knowledge. Having advertised IT Technician roles with basic knowledge over the years of what the job entails, 95% of candidates were all Windows experienced and that remaining 5% was Mac. Also +1 mention that if you want to go Apple to spend that amount of money for devices that are essentially Word + Internet usage... well there's been enough threads/posts on this forum that covers everything. If I was forced in to looking I would look at Chrome OS, Google seem to be willing to develop their systems much faster and give customers what they want. At the end of the day I have to consider the big picture, our customers and future proofing.
Geoff Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 Well there is that, the licensing costs for education from M$ are so cheap they are basically giving stuff away.
maark Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 As a few have mentioned the best way might be chromebooks and chromeboxes. I would have thought it would be possible and with cost savings on hardware, servers, licensing. Main sticking points would be software such as sims, design, music, media.
CyberNerd Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 Our network is about 85% Linux. 70% are Chromebooks and almost all of the 'desktop' windows are diskless thin clients. The server side is mostly linux, apache/ samba etc but I've not really been too bothered getting rid of Active Directory. The benefits: Software deployment is unbelievably easy. We couldn't afford 1:1 Chromebooks if they ran windows, the cost of hardware, licensing and management overhead combined would be prohibitive.
liveman2 Posted December 7, 2015 Author Posted December 7, 2015 Our network is about 85% Linux. 70% are Chromebooks and almost all of the 'desktop' windows are diskless thin clients. The server side is mostly linux, apache/ samba etc but I've not really been too bothered getting rid of Active Directory. The benefits: Software deployment is unbelievably easy. We couldn't afford 1:1 Chromebooks if they ran windows, the cost of hardware, licensing and management overhead combined would be prohibitive. Very interesting... What are you running on the desktops?
CyberNerd Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 Very interesting... What are you running on the desktops? Thinstation - basically gives access to Windows Terminal Servers.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now