Could BSF Run out of money?

[m25man]

With the Northern Rock Fiasco looking like it's going to cost the Taxpayer £55 Billion, do we still think that there will be enough cash in the kitty to finish what they started with BSF?

Or are we going to end up with the 2nd 3rd and 4th waves out of funds and abandoned by the big boys.

[torledo]

With the Northern Rock Fiasco looking like it's going to cost the Taxpayer £55 Billion, do we still think that there will be enough cash in the kitty to finish what they started with BSF?

Or are we going to end up with the 2nd 3rd and 4th waves out of funds and abandoned by the big boys.

 

unfortunately not, BSF is essentially a construction project - so that involves builders and architects, and we know how much New Labour loves to put work their way...not to mention the mgmt and IT consultants involved in such large scale projects so the money will be found by hook or by David Abrahams.

 

Nationalisation of the wreck is a stop gap measure anyway - the only realistic way of protecting the billions used to prop up the bank. They'll get some of it back.....and even if this anti-competitive act does leave a hole in their finances this govt is very good at generating income - so either a new wave of stealth tax or maybe the selling off more of our radio waves to the mobile telecom cartels will generate the necessary cash for BSF.

[contink]

From what I've heard in Sheffield they're already talking about half measures with one school my other half teaches in being told they're getting a "half new build".

 

Given the school leaks like a seive and is as inspirational as an egg box (anyone remember the council offices!?) it's just a waste of money... Whether this is a short term thing or an indication of BSF things to come, who knows.

[russdev]

There is serious talk about bsf funding at moment and so yes could cut funding before later waves. Depends all on politics and if mr brown wishes to add extra money into the kitty.

 

Russ

Edited January 16, 2008 by ChrisH

[Geoff]

Also things might change after the election.

[Dos_Box]

unfortunately not, BSF is essentially a construction project - so that involves builders and architects, and we know how much New Labour loves to put work their way...not to mention the mgmt and IT consultants involved in such large scale projects so the money will be found by hook or by David Abrahams.

 

Nationalisation of the wreck is a stop gap measure anyway - the only realistic way of protecting the billions used to prop up the bank. They'll get some of it back.....and even if this anti-competitive act does leave a hole in their finances this govt is very good at generating income - so either a new wave of stealth tax or maybe the selling off more of our radio waves to the mobile telecom cartels will generate the necessary cash for BSF.

 

One problem BSF faces is construction. In a big way. With massive building projextsa in Liverpool and London there is a huge shortage of construction engineers forcing back some projects, and thus increasing costs year on year. Just to dismiss BSF as a simple costruction issue is to ignore the problems that constuction as an industry currently has.

[GrumbleDook]

Also remember that the UK has a major construction project on its hands in the way of the Olympics. So we now have the Managed Service Providers that are having to think carefully about the amount of bids they take on ... and the builders wondering where they will get the plasterers.

[torledo]

One problem BSF faces is construction. In a big way. With massive building projextsa in Liverpool and London there is a huge shortage of construction engineers forcing back some projects, and thus increasing costs year on year. Just to dismiss BSF as a simple costruction issue is to ignore the problems that constuction as an industry currently has.

 

no doubt the building companies have order books full to bursting. And sure some of the ambition of BSF may be curtailed due to delays and expense....but then again if it's a cornerstone of government education policy then i'd imagine the BSF programme all or in part will be realised.

 

Could it be a NPfIT scale fiasco ? Yes it could, and a lot can change as this is a medium term project.

 

Or, as geoff says, a change of administration, forces a change in this commitment. Although once the ball starts rolling a new government will still have to commit to the project to some degree.

Edited January 16, 2008 by torledo

[webman]

Here's an idea for saving loads money in the BSF project to put it towards buildings or paying IT staff what they're worth: don't outsource the ICT!

[Guest Guest]

lmao If only they were that bright.

[beeswax]

Also remember that the UK has a major construction project on its hands in the way of the Olympics. So we now have the Managed Service Providers that are having to think carefully about the amount of bids they take on ... and the builders wondering where they will get the plasterers.

 

Poland? Though not this summer as their national side has qualified for the European Championships.

[Geoff]

I was not aware there was a European Plastering Championship. Is it televised I wonder?

[broc]

A very significant part of BSF funding will come from PFI. This means that the capital cost of the new buildings will be paid for by private companies and the LAs will in effect pay mortgages on the PFI schools, recovering the cost of this from school budgets along with the ICT managed service costs.

 

As I understand it, only building refurbishment will be funded by HM Govt.

 

Of course, the reluctance of banks to lend money to big business may mean that the stakeholders in the PFI consortia might find it difficult to get funds too.....

[broc]

Some of the construction companies involved in consortia bidding for BSF are from overseas. At least one has suggested they would be proposing prefabrication of buildings in their own countries and shipping them into the UK.

[russdev]

Issue is that in most leas plans involve some kind of refurb cost so with out that goverment money the pfi will not invest either.

 

Russ

[sahmeepee]

At least one has suggested they would be proposing prefabrication of buildings in their own countries and shipping them into the UK.

 

That would be an interesting interpretation of the "Future" element of BSF. Weren't prefabs the buildings of the future a few decades ago?! Come to think of it, can't we just Easyjet our kids to these cheap countries for their education for less than BSF costs

[SpuffMonkey]

That would be an interesting interpretation of the "Future" element of BSF. Weren't prefabs the buildings of the future a few decades ago?! Come to think of it, can't we just Easyjet our kids to these cheap countries for their education for less than BSF costs

 

Nice one

 

I tried something similar years ago for MCSE training - when it was cheaper to fly out to South Africa or India and stay there to do the course, than it was to drive to Birmingham to do it.

 

Even though it saved a couple of thousand quid - the company wouldn't allow it

[SpuffMonkey]

Here's another interesting link from The Guardian

 

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/publicservices/story/0,,2242063,00.html

 

Not sure whether its funny or depressing...or both...

[sahmeepee]

Here's another interesting link from The Guardian

 

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/publicservices/story/0,,2242063,00.html

 

Not sure whether its funny or depressing...or both...

 

At £30 per electrical socket, we'd pay for those people from Kirklees to come here. I'd hope they come with the NICEIC certs, but I honestly can't see how they could do it for that price even if they were doing a ton of them at once.

 

Whilst £400 for a data point is expensive, I find that much easier to believe because it could be in a truly horrendous location and with more scope for additional costs.

[broc]

I think the underlying problem is lack of ownership & accountability.

 

Like many network managers, I know that my budget is limited, so I have an incentive to get the best value I can & I push the budget as far as possible. If I can 'wheel & deal' with suppliers to shave a bit off the price I will as I know that the money I save can be spent on other things for my school.

 

By way of contrast, Central Purchasing depts tend to be remote and detached from the point of delivery. They agree a price for a product or service and are content to stick at that level until the contract is due for renewal. Often they have no incentive to closely monitor the price being paid. I think this is particularly true in the public sector and PFI seems to bring out the worst.

[john]

Thats logical sense, the government don't do that