firefox_2006 Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 Hi Happy New Year to one and all, I am interested in completing either the MCSE or the CCNA courses, but can't decide which one is better. I could study the CCNA at my old University down the road from where I live, but they want £1800 for the 28 week course. The CCNA is very "hands on" and you learn alot more about networking principles, right from the basics to real techie nerdy stuff, which might suit me more. However, the MSCE teaches you about Active Directory, SQL Server and Polocies which (as an IT Technician in a school) is more relevant to my current post. I have seen on the DVDs on ebay for the complete MSCE course, and the MCSE appears to be very "self taught" which i might struggle with. Has anyone complete either of these courses? which would be best in the long run? Regards firefox_2006
ChrisH Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 Although it may be desirable to have both it may be better to think which one you are more interested in sytems (MCS*) or networking (CCN*).
mrforgetful Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 I don't think you can say either one is best, they're completely different, one aimed at setting up and maintaining a Windows Network and the other on installing and configuring Cisco network equipment. One's hardware. One's software. Chalk. Cheese. I'd say think about what you want to be doing - if you're even going to be using Cisco equipment or Microsoft software. If you get a CCNA and buy Procurve is it relevant? If you become a MCSA then go into a Linux environment it's pretty useless too.
cookie_monster Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 CCNA content is tricky and hard to learn without the hardware and hands on experience, as you currently work in an MS environment i'd suggest aiming for an MCSA you can cover most of the content in a lab setup at work. Once you have that cracked then consider CCNA i've found it to be a step up in knowledge
torledo Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 Hi Happy New Year to one and all, I am interested in completing either the MCSE or the CCNA courses, but can't decide which one is better. I could study the CCNA at my old University down the road from where I live, but they want £1800 for the 28 week course. The CCNA is very "hands on" and you learn alot more about networking principles, right from the basics to real techie nerdy stuff, which might suit me more. However, the MSCE teaches you about Active Directory, SQL Server and Polocies which (as an IT Technician in a school) is more relevant to my current post. I have seen on the DVDs on ebay for the complete MSCE course, and the MCSE appears to be very "self taught" which i might struggle with. Has anyone complete either of these courses? which would be best in the long run? Regards firefox_2006 As an IT tech in a school, you'll use very little of what you learn on the ccna on a day to day basis. The theory comes in very handy for troubleshooting but as for configuring switches and routers you'll do very little, if any, of that in you're current role. If you want to get serious about becoming a network engineer then the ccna is valuable when you start applying for those kind of jobs. The trouble with the MCSE is passing the exams is very much about cramming and memorising. Not the way I like to learn and pass exams. With CCNA you still have to do a bit of cramming but the exams reflect what is taught in the ccna courses. Plus they test practical knowledge through simulations. They also cover different aspects. MCSE is systems administration whereas CCNA is network administration. CCNA is one exam while the MCSE is several. Getting the CCNA and an MCP accredition is a good place to start. You can then decide whether you want to go the whole hog and do the MCSE or CCNP.
Guest Guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) If you get a CCNA and buy Procurve is it relevant? Yes, the vast majority of the commands are similar if not the same. Plus its not particulaly the kit your learning, its about the principles surrounding it. Same goes for the MCSA but too a lesser extent id have guessed. As said they are differant so to say one is "best" is wrong... BUT imho a CCNA carries far more weight with employers, as lets be right about it, neither qualification is going to get you up on the ladder in a specialised job. Personally i went for the CCNA as as you said you can teach yourself the MCSA at home (not that you cant learn the CCNA at home mind). But imho if you think you will struggle with the MCSA than you will deffinatly struggle with the CCNA* *just my opinion mind, and based on assumptions. You might be great at maths and theory for all i know and have absolutely no problem passing. Edited January 9, 2008 by Guest
firefox_2006 Posted January 9, 2008 Author Report Posted January 9, 2008 Hi all Thank you for your comments, it seems I have a big decision to make, as both courses offer different things. I sort of enjoy the role I do now but I feel that for the next step up (network manager) I would obviously need one or the other qualifications. I have looked at the Prince2 course for IT Project Management, as this is another avenue I could follow. It is difficult to find a career that a) you enjoy b) offers you room/scope for progression I need to research these courses further and decide which avenue I wish to take. firefox_2006
apeo Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 Pretty much what everyone has stated but just want to add that CCNA, imo, is basically an intro into large scale networking so unless you intend on becoming a network engineer you should probably go for MCSA or MCSE. I have a CCNA and in a LAN environment i use maybe 1% of my CCNA knowledge. Other thing you have to consider is that CCNA expires and MCSE doesnt.
torledo Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 Yes, the vast majority of the commands are similar if not the same. Plus its not particulaly the kit your learning, its about the principles surrounding it. Same goes for the MCSA but too a lesser extent id have guessed. As said they are differant so to say one is "best" is wrong... BUT imho a CCNA carries far more weight with employers, as lets be right about it, neither qualification is going to get you up on the ladder in a specialised job. Personally i went for the CCNA as as you said you can teach yourself the MCSA at home (not that you cant learn the CCNA at home mind). But imho if you think you will struggle with the MCSA than you will deffinatly struggle with the CCNA* *just my opinion mind, and based on assumptions. You might be great at maths and theory for all i know and have absolutely no problem passing. The two hardest theoretical aspects of the ccna to grasp is subnetting and how to use the OSI model (which is merely a guide and not a hard and fast rulebook)....Once you understand that the rest of the ccna becomes a joy and is far easier than the MCSA imo. Previous experience with binary arithmetic is practically the only mathematical knowledge that'll come in handy when trying to get round some of the difficult aspects of the theory. Everything else, from understanding ACLs to using the Cisco IOS I found to be very intuitive. As you've said most of the switch vendors have copied the IOS command line so you can transfer the skills you've learned. The good thing about using Cisco kit is the IOS style is replicated across most of their products not just routers and swithces. So you can pick up command lines for the firewall, IPS, content services switches, AP's and loads of other cisco kit becuase it'll be pleasingly familiar.
ChrisH Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 Pretty much what everyone has stated but just want to add that CCNA, imo, is basically an intro into large scale networking so unless you intend on becoming a network engineer you should probably go for MCSA or MCSE. I have a CCNA and in a LAN environment i use maybe 1% of my CCNA knowledge. Other thing you have to consider is that CCNA expires and MCSE doesnt. Not strictly true as they do like to bring out new server versions and such so in a way they sorta do
Geoff Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 Yep, MCSE is only applicable to the version of the software you learnt on. So a W2k based MSCE is not valid for XP.
apeo Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 Not strictly true as they do like to bring out new server versions and such so in a way they sorta do well i'll put it another way then... if you get an MCSE for 2003 server you will have the piece of paper for that with not restrictions. If you get CCNA... the piece of paper will expire so if you dont renew it, you are not CCNA qualified anymore but MCSE dont work that way. BTW response is not aimed at ChrisH (as im sure he already know), just elaborating for those that dont understand.
Geoff Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 It's a bit nit picky anyway, as employers never bother to check the expiry or scope of vendor certification. Only if you have them or not.
Joedetic Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 Whilst CCNA does technically expire you can still put on your CV "CCNA 2008-2011" etc. I'm currently doing a plethora of Cisco courses with Uni. This semester they'll be making up 3/4 of my course. Whilst they are aimed heavily at Cisco kit there is a lot of valuable theory that teaches you about trouble shooting equipment (which everyone uses at some point), creating security policies, VPNs (not just configuration but the inner workings of different types) and lots of different skills which are transferable to other environments. Obviously, as has previously been mentioned, it's quite suited to Network Engineers (*points at signature*), so you should look at which aspect of IT you want to go into before you jump into either qualification.
sahmeepee Posted January 9, 2008 Report Posted January 9, 2008 The trouble with the MCSE is passing the exams is very much about cramming and memorising. Not the way I like to learn and pass exams. With CCNA you still have to do a bit of cramming but the exams reflect what is taught in the ccna courses. Plus they test practical knowledge through simulations. While that is true for a lot of people, I think it does come down to how you choose to study for the qualification. When I took my MCSA I did it over 6 months, studying for at least 13 hours a week. At the time, Microsoft were recommending people spent 3 months studying for each MCP, although that doesn't seem very practical for MCSE students. The people that turned up to the "bootcamp" and exam without having done the pre-study (my training was from Thomson Wave, now part of Skillsoft it seems) were mostly wasting their time - I was the only one of 13 people to pass the evil 70-291. How people get anywhere with intensive 2 week MCSE courses abroad is beyond me - I can retain information yes, but there's definitely a limit to how quickly I can shovel it in! When I did my MCSA exams 2 years ago, some of them did contain simulations rather than straight multi-choice, but I'm not sure which ones have simulations nowadays.
techyphil Posted February 20, 2008 Report Posted February 20, 2008 Im doing the CCNA, but got hold of alot of LearnKey and TestOut DVD's with CCNA, MSCE info anyway. They have 80% of everything you need to learn plus bits that help out in real life usage. Whilst doing the CCNA, ive been on 5 day courses learning the different sections of the MCSA anyway. I done 2274 - Managing a Windows Server 2003 Environment. Theres about 5 more to do if I wanted to go for the exams and get that certificate. But at the moment, I learn simply because I want to and to use that in my day to day work. After my CCNA at college then I will have more time to study and go for the MCSA. Good Luck deciding btw
FragglePete Posted February 21, 2008 Report Posted February 21, 2008 I'd always aimed for MSCA, but my problem was the exams. I just fell to pieces in the exam. Nerves more than anything, and the last one I failed by 6 points! I did a number of Official Microsoft Courses that were fantastic where I learnt a lot but also used it to clarify and re-enforce what I knew already. Also met a lot of a Certification junkies that seemed only focused on getting the bit of paper. So, I took the decision not to worry so much about these certifications and rely on my experience, and so far that's working out ok. The MSC* stuff teaches and expects you to do things the Microsoft way, and that is not necessarily the best or most appropriate way of doing things. Pete
Grommit Posted July 23, 2008 Report Posted July 23, 2008 CISCO is done in most high schools so is looked at as a kiddies cert.. MCP, MCSA, MCSE are more professional..
cookie_monster Posted July 23, 2008 Report Posted July 23, 2008 (edited) CISCO is done in most high schools so is looked at as a kiddies cert.. MCP, MCSA, MCSE are more professional.. WHAT??? CCNA is a hard cert to achieve. How exactly do these high school kiddies get a good level of Cisco hardware experience. As an MCSA on 2k and 2k3 i can tell you they're not rocket science 70-292 was pretty damn hard but they aren't looked on any more favourably than Cisco exams, in fact they're very different fields so the question you need to ask is what job am i looking for then decide on the cert. Edited July 23, 2008 by cookie_monster
Guest Guest Posted July 23, 2008 Report Posted July 23, 2008 WHAT??? CCNA is a hard cert to achieve. How exactly do these high school kiddies get a good level of Cisco hardware experience. As an MCSA on 2k and 2k3 i can tell you they're not rocket science 70-292 was pretty damn hard but they aren't looked on any more favourably than Cisco exams, in fact they're very different fields so the question you need to ask is what job am i looking for then decide on the cert. Yep. IMO an IME cisco is looked upon FAR FAR FAR more favourably than a MS.
cookie_monster Posted July 23, 2008 Report Posted July 23, 2008 But only if you're going for the right job i wouldn't hire a CCNA to look after my Exchange server farm. With any certs untill you have experience to back them up they're worthless i'd be very suspicious of any MCSE/CCNA with limited experience.
Joedetic Posted July 23, 2008 Report Posted July 23, 2008 Yeah, same. But it depends very much what field you're going into. CCNA/CCNP/FNS etc are all a bit more in depth in my opinion.
bossman Posted July 23, 2008 Report Posted July 23, 2008 @Joeditic: Totally agree with you it's hands on skills that are the best kind of qualifications along with experience but how do you show a prospective employer without the paper? I have used about 5% of my MCSE knowledge so far in 3 years. Am on last part of module 4 WAN CCNA and will decide whether or not to take the exam as I use very little of CCNA knowledge in my everyday job.
flashsnaps Posted July 23, 2008 Report Posted July 23, 2008 I am not sure how much this applies now but I did CISCO course 3years, in 6form (ccna) - well part of it, and there was loads of cheating going on because the answers were available on the internet - so people could revise the answers and pass the multiple choice exams. Some of these people passed the course and got a ccna, but no f*** all!
cookie_monster Posted July 23, 2008 Report Posted July 23, 2008 A very good reason why i wouldn't hire anyone with certs and no experience. That is the same reason why MS stopped VUE providing their exams.
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