Migrating everything off site

[mjk]

here are the Google contracts we signed up for

 

https://www.google.com/intx/en/work/apps/terms/dpa_terms.html

 

Google Apps

[edutech4schools]

Going to agree with @mjk on this.

[zag]

Question though, don't you still backup the "media/archive" servers etc? So haven't actually saved any space in terms of backups, only in terms of "expensive" vs "cheap" storage? (Yes compression/jpegs etc but the bulk I mean).

 

Steve

 

Yes but only once a term. There is no real need to back it up to virtual or cloud every night.

[localzuk]

here are the Google contracts we signed up for

 

https://www.google.com/intx/en/work/apps/terms/dpa_terms.html

 

Google Apps

 

Great, the contract specifically says, clearly:

 

"GOOGLE AND ITS LICENSORS MAKE NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, WHETHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED, STATUTORY OR OTHERWISE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR USE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. "

 

So, no warranty for the service. Unacceptable. They also are indemnified against basically all legal claims also. No liability on their side either.

[mjk]

Great, the contract specifically says, clearly:

 

"GOOGLE AND ITS LICENSORS MAKE NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, WHETHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED, STATUTORY OR OTHERWISE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR USE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. "

 

So, no warranty for the service. Unacceptable. They also are indemnified against basically all legal claims also. No liability on their side either.

 

Yeah. Now post the windows one, the SIMS one, and the one from the providers that you just costed at £5k.

[localzuk]

Yeah. Now post the windows one, the SIMS one, and the one from the providers that you just costed at £5k.

 

If we pay for a service, and that service is then not provided, we have protection under the law in the UK, regardless of whatever clauses the company we buy from may insert into their contracts, even if it is as little as reclaiming the money we paid. If you don't pay anything for a service, your position in a contract dispute is near enough non-existent. You can't make any claims, because you haven't actually made any losses in the eyes of the law.

[Steve21]

My primary schools pay £60 per year for unlimited backup using Cloud Backup and Cloud Storage Management Solutions. CloudBerry Lab which backs up to any cloud service, we backup to Google Drive which has unlimited space for schools.

@edutech4schools Do you do direct file copies, or still via something like Veeam/BackUp exec? Just wondering how you find speeds uploading large amounts as assume it doesn't do anything like incrementals by default?

 

Steve

[teejay]

here are the Google contracts we signed up for

 

https://www.google.com/intx/en/work/apps/terms/dpa_terms.html

 

Google Apps

 

So you agreed to this -

 

10.1. Data Transfers. As part of providing the Services, Google may transfer, store and process Customer Data in the United States or any other country in which Google and its Subprocessors maintain facilities.

 

How does that meet the requirements of the ICO for protecting sensitive personal data, particularly points 7 and 8?

 

1. is processed fairly and lawfully;

2. is obtained only for lawful purposes, and is not further used in

any manner incompatible with those original purposes;

3. is accurate and, where necessary, kept up to date;

4. is adequate, relevant and not excessive in relation to the

purposes for which it is processed;

5. is not kept for longer than is necessary for those purposes;

6. is processed in accordance with the rights of data subjects

under the DPA;

7. is protected by appropriate technical and organisational

measures against unauthorised or unlawful processing and against

accidental loss, destruction or damage; and

8. is not transferred to a country or territory outside the European

Economic Area unless that country or territory ensures an

adequate level of protection of the personal information.

[edutech4schools]

even if it is as little as reclaiming the money we paid

So whats the point in paying if it goes pete tong and all you can get is your money back. You end up no better than someone than has not paid.

 

@edutech4schools Do you do direct file copies, or still via something like Veeam/BackUp exec? Just wondering how you find speeds uploading large amounts as assume it doesn't do anything like incrementals by default?

 

Yes it does incremental. and diff.

 

We have a radio broadband which is very slow so the initial upload took about a week but it now takes about 20mins per night with incremental. I use this as a disaster copy of our data and do also do onsite backups so hopefully will never need it.

[localzuk]

So whats the point in paying if it goes pete tong and all you can get is your money back. You end up no better than someone than has not paid.

 

That's the worst case scenario.

[edutech4schools]

Oh and it does direct file copy. Does not use other providers backup software.

 

It also does server 2 server or cloud 2 cloud backups.

 

Backup Windows Server with CloudBerry Backup

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Its probably not for everyone but for my primary schools its great.

[theeggmaster]

So you agreed to this -

 

 

 

How does that meet the requirements of the ICO for protecting sensitive personal data, particularly points 7 and 8?

 

There is a really good blog post about the DfE, Cloud Services and Data Protection here - ChromeStead: Cloud Software, Schools, Data Protection

The Google response, specifically, is here - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4froD7RGVqtaFlKc3VnTHF0THc&usp=sharing#

[mjk]

There is a really good blog post about the DfE, Cloud Services and Data Protection here - ChromeStead: Cloud Software, Schools, Data Protection

The Google response, specifically, is here - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4froD7RGVqtaFlKc3VnTHF0THc&usp=sharing#

 

It says that safeharbour is exempt from this requirement as they have been vetted by the EU.

[localzuk]

It says that safeharbour is exempt from this requirement as they have been vetted by the EU.

 

For the moment. The EU are currently investigating whether the agreement is actually any good, and whether it should be scrapped or replaced. So, even that is a grey area!

[mjk]

@localzuk.

I appreciate you have your own issues with Google and that you have done a risk assessment and decided it isn't for you. Bear in mind that if Google loose your data you probably won't loose anything except reputation since safeharbour and the DFE have done the risk assessment in any case. One thing I can be 100% sure of is that Google have an awful lot more to loose in terms of reputation and money than you do. It's for these reasons (and the contract!) that I do trust the service.

[edutech4schools]

Google currently have something like 30 government states and numerous businesses, they even look after a few banks. Not sure why any educational institution would not want to use them seeing as its all free and a load more usable than any alternatives I have used.

[localzuk]

Google currently have something like 30 government states and numerous businesses, they even look after a few banks. Not sure why any educational institution would not want to use them seeing as its all free and a load more usable than any alternatives I have used.

 

States, businesses and banks all have something in common - they are either huge, and therefore have might, or they are paying customers. Schools are neither large or paying anything.

[mjk]

I've just had an email update from Google; adjusting their T+C's.

 

If you set to EU only then data will only reside in the EU; but "customer data" (not data storage) may be cached 'transiently' in other countries.

 

 

4.1 Data Storage. Customer may determine via the Service for each disk resource whether the Core Compute Engine Customer Data will be stored permanently, at rest, in either the United States or the European Union, and Google will store it accordingly ("Compute Engine Data Location Setting"). If neither of these choices is selected, Core Compute Engine Customer Data may be stored in any country in which Google or its agents maintain facilities.

 

4.2 Transient Storage. Core Compute Engine Customer Data may be stored transiently or cached in any country in which Google or its agents maintain facilities.

 

 

4.3 Limitations. No Compute Engine Data Location Setting will apply to Core Compute Engine Customer Data copied by Customer or an End User to another location or used with other Google products and services (including other Services, except to the extent Customer has selected the same Data Location Setting for that other Service). If so, the Core Compute Engine Customer Data may be processed and stored in any country in which Google or its agents maintain facilities.

 

 

4.4 Additional Security. If Customer requires greater than eight static IP addresses, Customer consents to Google filing a SWIP report and registering these static IP addresses with ARIN. Google reserves the right to log DNS lookups, as well as source and destination IP addresses, for security purposes.

 

 

4.5 Sustained Usage Discounting. Any credits provided to Customer in connection with Sustained Usage Discounting have no cash value and can only be applied to offset future Google Compute Engine Fees. Upon termination or expiration of a Customer's Agreement, such credits will expire.

 

https://cloud.google.com/terms/service-terms

[localzuk]

My primary schools pay £60 per year for unlimited backup using Cloud Backup and Cloud Storage Management Solutions. CloudBerry Lab which backs up to any cloud service, we backup to Google Drive which has unlimited space for schools.

 

Well... I've now presented this as one of our options to the boss (who is trying to full a budget hole), and she actually is willing to look at it as it can save so much money. So, you never know, we may change our policies!

[localzuk]

I've now looked thoroughly at the CloudBerry Cloud Backup stuff and there's several show stopping problems.

 

1. Block level backup is not available for Google Drive accounts.

2. Encryption is not available for Google Drive accounts.

3. It doesn't support MS OneDrive as yet

[edutech4schools]

Been a while but just seen this,

 

1. Block level backup is not available for Google Drive accounts.

2. Encryption is not available for Google Drive accounts.

 

But on the Cloudberry Google page it says it does do both of these

 

http://www.cloudberrylab.com/google-drive-windows-server-backup.aspx

 

 

[localzuk]

It does neither. I tried and contacted them about it. It's also on their forums with other users complaining too.

[edutech4schools]

When I checked the forums (ages ago) the did have people complaining about the Google drive not encrypting but that was for the non server version. I will go hunting.

[edutech4schools]

Did just find some info on the forums that says it does not encrypt, so will give them a call.

[edutech4schools]

Just been looking at more info and think it does encrypt the connection but does not encrypt the stored files, which has caused some confusion on their forums, which is fine for me as it's no different to using Google Apps for Ed within a school. I will still contact them for more info.