LosOjos Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 No tearing yet and I'm 1500 hours into it. My samsung 21" 60Hz was bad unless I used V-Sync. Just my real world experience anyway. Yeah with 120Hz and V-Sync enabled I'd get 120FPS with 60Hz V-Sync you'd be getting 60FPS which again isn't great imho. I think graphics settings are pretty much like which RAID array to use. I imagine with 120Hz it'd be difficult to spot any tearing with the naked eye to be honest, but if you put it under scrutiny with a slow-mo camera, you'd see it I'm almost certain. Not that it matters! I have to laugh when you hear about micro-stuttering problems in SLI setups, then when you look for evidence they need a slow-mo camera to show you - so what?! If I can't perceive the issue, why does it matter? But yeah, on my lowly 50Hz (!!!) monitor, V-Sync is essential for me.
pcstru Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 I have to laugh when you hear about micro-stuttering problems in SLI setups, then when you look for evidence they need a slow-mo camera to show you - so what?! If I can't perceive the issue, why does it matter? Different issue surely. You can easily perceive stuttering with your eyes, but it can be difficult to capture/record given the fps of most cameras isn't capable of keeping up with the refresh rate of a computer monitor.
Gaz Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Lets try and stay on topic, don't want to highjack steveg's thread. Its possibly a good discussion for another thread even though its been done to death elsewhere on the interwebs.
LosOjos Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Different issue surely. You can easily perceive stuttering with your eyes, but it can be difficult to capture/record given the fps of most cameras isn't capable of keeping up with the refresh rate of a computer monitor. It is a different issue, but when the stuttering happens so quickly it's only perceivable in a massively slowed down capture of the original image, it seems like something of a non-issue to me. Don't get me wrong, I have seen the issue get bad enough to be able to see it clearly unaided, I just think sometimes people go far too deep in to their search for 'problems' when in actual fact, if my eyes aren't capable of spotting the issue, what's the problem? It's similar to the audiophile crowd who will use expensive measuring equipment to prove their speakers produce sounds at super high/low frequencies - yeah that's great, but if I can't hear it*, why does it matter? * I know really low frequencies can be felt rather than heard
Arthur Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Ideally she wants it as small as possible, but not at the expense of spec / performance. If she only needs one graphics card I would get an NCase M1 + mITX motherboard (like the Asus Maximus VII Impact) + Silverstone SX600-G SFX PSU. The case is tiny so it would be easy to transport on a train.
mckev1993 Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 IMHO I'd do this: i5 4000 series like a 4670k or a 4690K - (Overclocks are optional but I thought you could include it) High end Z87 or Z97 motherboard - (Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, look for SLI/XFire support, high quality audio, lots of SATA6 ports) 8GB of DDR3 RAM - (Crucial, Kingston, Corsair, I use 8gb and even in the most demanding games *cough Watch Dogs* it's fine, speed doesn't matter but you could get 1866-2133mhz memory if you wanted I use 1600mhz.) GTX 970 (MSI, ASUS, EVGA) or R9 290 (Sapphire, ASUS, MSI) - (I personally use NVidia cards due to the vast variety of features e.g. shadowplay, DSR, NVidia GameWorks and they are lot less power hungry however with R9 290 you ACTUALLY get 4gb of VRAM) SSD for boot drive and key/daily apps - (I use an Intel one 160gb, expensive but scary fast and heard it's the most reliable. Also heard Samsung, Corsair and Crucial do fantastic SSDs) HDD for mass storage - (I use a WD Black 2TB which I bought off eBay for £55 BARGAIN! Fast as heck for a 7200RPM drive and it's only used as my Steam library.) Case - (Depends on Mobo size, but look at Fractal Design - SERIOUSLY RECOMMEND! The Define R5 is AMAZING) PSU - I'd say always say get more tham you and make sure it's 1. a good, reliable brand and 2. it's at least 80+ bronze and has enough cables that you need down the line for SLI for example, do not skimp out here!!! (Look at EVGA, Corsair and Seasonic) ALSO just my opinion, DON'T go for 4k JUST yet, get a 1080p and use DSR to get a 4k image on a 1080p display or buy a cheap IPS Korean display (look for them on eBay) Cheers
JRowley Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 IMHO I'd do this: High end Z87 or Z97 motherboard - (Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, look for SLI/XFire support, high quality audio, lots of SATA6 ports) 8GB of DDR3 RAM - (Crucial, Kingston, Corsair, I use 8gb and even in the most demanding games *cough Watch Dogs* it's fine, speed doesn't matter but you could get 1866-2133mhz memory if you wanted I use 1600mhz.) No DDR4 motherboard? I would consider that a big oversight if you want to futureproof for a few years.
Norphy Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Aren't the only DDR4 compatible boards out there the insanely expensive X99 boards which only work with Haswell-E?
Arreks Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 I think you'll find this bad boy can run all the latest games. [ATTACH=CONFIG]29452[/ATTACH]
mckev1993 Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 You have to get an get an X99 motherboard, DDR4 memory and new Intel socket 2011-E CPU, if you're spending a £1000 them 3 items alone could easily blow than half of your budget, really you should be spending the majoirty of your budget on the GPU.
JRowley Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Aren't the only DDR4 compatible boards out there the insanely expensive X99 boards which only work with Haswell-E? They don't seem that expensive to me - Components » Motherboards - Intel » Intel 2011 (X99 Chipset) - Overclockers UK Regardless I asked earlier when the OP was likely to be building it, the longer they wait the better off they will be for DDR4. Given the initial budget is £1500, I don't see a reason why you wouldn't spec for DDR4. Edited March 3, 2015 by JRowley
Gaz Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) DDR4 Ram is insanely expensive at the moment, so not worth it! As Norphy says at the moment only the Haswell-E chips support DDR4. Its unlikely that there will be any Haswells that support it, that may come with Broardwell or Skylake / 14nm stuff. Games arent taking advantage of multple cores as much as raw speed so a 4 core 4GHz 4790k will be a lot faster than a 6 core 3.3GHz 5820K so the 4790K is a much better processor for gaming, not to mention the overall amount you save on motherboard, RAM and CPU. Edited March 3, 2015 by Gaz
JRowley Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 DDR4 Ram is insanely expensive at the moment, so not worth it! As Norphy says at the moment only the Haswell-E chips support DDR4. Its unlikely that there will be any Haswells that support it, that may come with Broardwell or Skylake / 14nm stuff. It's really not insanely expensive, you can get 16GB for sub £200, which given how new the technology is, is actually very reasonable - Components » Memory » DDR4 - Overclockers UK
Gaz Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) £519 for Asus Maximus RangerVII, 16GB DDR3, 4790K £693 for Asus X99-A (cheapest Asus X99 board) 16GB DDR4, 5820K Thats a big difference that could be spent on an SSD or into the GFX card. All a bit of a moot point as she wants a rig for lan and ITX is perfect for that which currently there are no X99 ITX boards that I can find. Edited March 3, 2015 by Gaz Spelling
mckev1993 Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 The socket on X99 is HUGE, so I doubt there would be any X99 motherboards around, however, if some came out I'd be amazed.
JRowley Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 £519 for Asus Maximus RangerVII, 16GB DDR3, 4790K £693 for Asus X99-A (cheapest Asus X99 board) 16GB DDR4, 5820K Thats a big difference that could be spent on an SSD or into the GFX card. All a bit of a moot point as she wants a rig for lan and ITX is perfect for that which currently there are no X99 ITX boards that I can find. £180 extra is perfectly reasonable given what you would be getting in return (better performance, future proofing, less cost in future). But like you say if she is really keen on it being small then the whole discussion is pretty pointless, although in the OP it's stated that size shouldn't take priority over performance so really the X99 should win this hands down. Could do with @steveg coming back and giving us an update/feedback/thoughts on what has been said so far. I mean that £693 leaves you with just over £800 to spend on everything else and that's if the budget remains at £1500, the OP said that she might go over if the reason is valid, I believe you could go £180 over for this. It's just another option and something certainly worth considering, this is a bit of an awkward time for a build to be honest, 6 months backwards or forwards and the options were fairly clear.
Norphy Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 I personally think that the overall value of getting DDR4 now is somewhat questionable and the ability of it to "futureproof" you is even more so. First of all, the RAM itself is a fair whack more expensive than DDR3 as is the motherboard that you need to run it on and the CPU to drive it all. It will get you a couple of extra cores but the average person isn't that likely to see much of a benefit over a standard i5/i7 4000 series CPU. In terms of futureproofing, yes DDR4 will the the way forward but any DDR4 that you buy today will probably not be all that much use to you when it comes to upgrade your platform again. In 3/4/5 years time the speed of RAM that the platforms of the day will expect will probably be somewhat higher than what's available now so purchasing RAM again may well be on the cards. This has happened with DDR2 and DDR3, I doubt it'll be any different with DDR4. The X99 platform isn't any more futureproof either, I doubt that the Core-E series of the future will work in it and it's generally considered to be pretty pointless upgrading to a faster clockspeed chip of the same line these days as the benefits that it'll get you are marginal. As far as I can see, the only real benefit that DDR4 may have right now is that DDR4 densities will be higher so you may be able to put more RAM in there. However, you can get at least 32GB into DDR3 systems right now. Do you think that you're going to need more than 32GB RAM in the next 3/4/5 years? If I were buying a new PC now, I'd be holding off buying DDR4 and the reasons above are why.
JRowley Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) The reason I would buy DDR4 and go down the X99 route would simply be that in a year, or two years time I would rather upgrade my RAM than the whole rig. I don't know how often she refreshes her rig, personally I think about rebuilding every 3-4 years tops because technology moves that quickly. So for future proofing it's about what you will be using next, next in all cases will be DDR4 and yes while you would still have to rebuild your rig at some point in both cases as the next gen i7s aren't likely to fit the current X99 motherboards, I would rather have the opportunity to upgrade the RAM as an intermediary between rigs, than build a rig today knowing I'll want to switch it out in a year or twos time. Plus with the intermediary upgrade you can carry that over to your next build and not have to worry about that cost next time around. Edited March 3, 2015 by JRowley
steveg Posted March 3, 2015 Author Posted March 3, 2015 Sorry all, hadn't realised how many extra replies there had been to this thread, and have been busy building a house at home over the last couple of days! To answer some of the queries, although size is important, performance comes first. I had a look at the ddr4 motherboards / cpu's and looking and the benchmarks they didn't seem great value for money to me. I don't think the machine needs insane cpu power for gaming, although I may be wrong. Ideally the pc has to last 3 years before being upgraded / replaced. The only thing I can see that may need upgrading sooner is the graphics card if she does go the 4k route? I'll have a proper look at this thread this eve. Steve
Arthur Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Plus with the intermediary upgrade you can carry that over to your next build and not have to worry about that cost next time around. If for example you buy 2,400MHz DDR4 RAM today, would you necessarily want that in your next build when 3,200MHz (or faster) DDR4 RAM will be a lot cheaper than it is currently?
3s-gtech Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 DDR4 doesn't make sense in a mainstream build yet IMO. It doesn't give enough of a speed boost to justify the cost. It will come, as it did between DDR2 and 3, but early DDR3 was actually slower than DDR2 at the same frequencies due to higher latencies. Spend the money on the GPU.
steveg Posted March 3, 2015 Author Posted March 3, 2015 So far, machine is looking as follows: Intel Core i7 4790K 4GHz Socket 1150 8MB L3 Cache Retail Boxed Processor 16GB 2400MHz DDR3 Non-ECC CL11 DIMM (Kit of 2) XMP Beast Series Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3 Socket 1150 HDMI 8 Channel Audio ATX Motherboard Crucial CT1000BX100SSD1 BX100 1TB SATAIII 2.5inch SSD Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming 4GB GDDR5 Dual DVI HDMI DisplayPort PCI-E Graphics Card Corsair CXM 750W Semi Modular 80+ Bronze Power Supply XB280HKbprz/ 71cm (28) Wide 1ms G-Sync 100M:1 ACM 300nits 4K2K LED Displayport USB Hub Height adj. Pivot EURO/UK EMEA TCO6.0 Black Acer EcoDisplay Windows 8.1 home OEM total comes to £1690, just got to add a case. I may swap motherboard out for a micro atx one and go for the smaller case mentioned in this thread. I dropped the multiple ssd's for 1 big one, I think it will be a bit slow, but makes more sense overall. I know it will struggle with 4k resolutions, but the monitor should last through the next upgrade as well, and this pc may be cable of 4k gaming with a new graphics card in a year or so. Steve
Gaz Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) OK that is a really bad board, don't skimp on something that ties it all together and ultimately offers some future-proofing (although that term is laughable) no M.2 slot and only 6 SATA's. This would be more suitable. http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigabyte-ga-z97x-gaming-3-intel-z97-s1150-ddr3-pcie-30-(x16)-2-way-sli-3-way-crossfirex-vga-dvi-hdmi Edited March 3, 2015 by Gaz
steveg Posted March 3, 2015 Author Posted March 3, 2015 Isn't 6 sata enough? I hadn't noticed it had no m.2 slot though, so will change it. Thanks
Gaz Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Well I'm just speaking personally, I have a lot of hard drives. It also hasn't got many USB ports and for some reason it does have a COM port. crap onboard sound too.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now