[sims] SIMS integration

[jjjonny]

I was also highlighting the fact that SIMS integration IS NOT our main USP, it's just something that would make the system easier to use from both a school and caterer perspective.

[localzuk]

On the specific topic of SIMS integration, there are multiple ways to get data out of it:

 

1. A report in SIMS, which you can access via commandreporter.exe

2. True integration via APIs and the like

3. Using a third party integration tool, such as GroupCall Xporter

4. Getting data from the SQL database directly

5. Manual data import - specify which fields of data you want, and get the school to export a report which you then import into your system.

 

The first 2 are going to cost you as a partner really, as the first requires you to have a SIMS license to create the report in the first place, and the second is definitely partner related.

 

Option 3 will cost licensing per customer to do so, but GroupCall would do the work with SIMS for you, and you would just get the data you wanted in the format you want

 

Option 4 is just a really bad idea as you have absolutely no control over it. The database could change randomly, leaving your customers with broken systems for the time between new releases and you finding out the new schema for the SIMS DB. Its also very much discouraged by Capita.

 

Option 5 is the option some companies in this area take when starting out. It works.

[jjjonny]

Think of it like this.

 

Caterer - they signup for and use our system to manage school meal pre-orders.

School - they have to get pupil data to the caterer for booking and parent account purposes.

 

Current solution - school generates a report that isn't usually in the correct format so it's fiddly for the caterer to edit and then upload

Proposed solution - a reporting script that allows schools to generate a report that has a consistent structure that is then easier to either a) upload to the system or b) send directly to the system using a piped curl or similar.

[localzuk]

GroupCall Xporter already does that to be honest. It grabs data from SIMS (or CMIS or whatever) and exports it into whatever format the other side wants.

 

Especially as it'll be able to integrate into a huge range of systems off the bat as they've done that work already.

Edited January 30, 2015 by localzuk

[matt40k]

Right, so you plan is to allow parents to pick a detailed meal from a list of options for a specific day which will then be sent to the kitchen directly. Ok. That's a good premium service. You really need to sit down with someone like @GREED @ Groupcall. That'll integrate into their exist system better then trying to take it on.

[jjjonny]

We'd rather have the challenge of doing it ourselves We work heavily with DB services and integration so I'm sure our core skill-set is more than adequate to achieve our desired goal.

 

Yes @matt40k it is a great premium service for caterers which (when compared to the alternative systems) provides excellent value, usability and flexibility.

 

Thanks to everyone for the help and advice. We'll be sure to let you know which approach we go with, and how it pans out.

[localzuk]

We'd rather have the challenge of doing it ourselves We work heavily with DB services and integration so I'm sure our core skill-set is more than adequate to achieve our desired goal.

 

My warning here is don't underestimate the hassle of integrating with MIS systems. I've written a cashless catering system, and a tool to integrate with an online catering payment solution, and various other things that integrate with SIMS. The data integration bit was one of the most annoying parts of it all.

[jjjonny]

My warning here is don't underestimate the hassle of integrating with MIS systems. I've written a cashless catering system, and a tool to integrate with an online catering payment solution, and various other things that integrate with SIMS. The data integration bit was one of the most annoying parts of it all.

 

I will heed your advice

[michael2k6]

Hi,

 

Most people around the forum know now I'm from Advanced Learning but have been on the forum many years in various different roles. I'd say from experience in general that if a school already has groupcall in place to work with various other companies, they'd like to keep it all in one piece of software as an integration tool; if you go in and say that you work directly with it, if they currently have no integration, it's a benefit, but if they currently use groupcall as an intermediary, then they'd rather you work with that.

I can't comment on integration with SIMS as I have no experience with the product, but I can say that Facility (previously known many moons ago as CMIS), and Progresso both have API's which you could use to integrate with our databases. It's likely that if your product takes off we'll have some shared customer base so I'd encourage that you consider integrating with us at the planning stage. If you'd like to chat more about that feel free to PM me and I'll send you my details.

 

Mic Sanderson

Advanced Learning (Facility & Progresso MIS)

[matt40k]

Thanks to @matt40k for the original plug and point.

 

You know where the button is

[penfold_99]

Just for clarity there are other providers in the market not just group call.

[GREED]

Just for clarity there are other providers in the market not just group call.

 

Oh yes... hello Ian

[Rodders]

Do schools have multiple instances of Groupcall on their server from different 3rd parties (i.e. if they used a texting company, VLE, online payment company etc)?

[GREED]

Do schools have multiple instances of Groupcall on their server from different 3rd parties (i.e. if they used a texting company, VLE, online payment company etc)?

 

They have different independent instances of Xporter running yes. This is so that if there is an issue with one 3rd party process, the others keep working just fine. It also allows processes to happen in parallel.

Edited May 24, 2015 by GREED

[vikpaw]

I may be mistaken, but i think we have one instance, and it has multiple jobs, for each third party. The jobs are independent.

Possibly at the Groupcall side it's different instances / buckets to keep the data separate.

[localzuk]

We have a single instance with multiple jobs here. Used to have multiple instances though.

[GREED]

You are right Vik. It is one installation of Xporter, but contained within that is a number of encapsulated processes and jobs that are independent of each other for each 3rd party (or in fact each product). Each can be installed as needed. Sorry I should have been clearer!

[PeteLambert]

Integration with SIMS is not straightforward. I have built many systems for our clients that integrate with SIMS (including a catering system) and have had teams say things like "it shouldn't be this difficult" and "we must be doing something wrong". When you eventually get it working, expect something to cause you a headache in the not too distant future.

 

The fact is, businesses like Groupcall and ZiNET would not have products that are as successful as they are if this problem didn't exist.

 

You sound like you are undertaking a reasonably sized development project, so my advice would be to go ahead and get a partner licence from SIMS and try it out. From memory, it's only a few thousand pounds, so it may be worth it to satisfy your curiosity. Just don't expect too much. You should also try the other options. You'll learn something and will only burn a handful of days.

 

On your point about having the skills yourself, the problem is not really a technical one. There are a load of weird edge cases and rules that existing suppliers have built into their products over a number of years. You'd be discovering these yourself, probably in a live environment.

 

Good luck.

Edited May 25, 2015 by PeteLambert