Arthur Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Assuming the rumours below are true, this would mean that after upgrading your Surface RT, Surface 2 or sub-9" Atom-based Windows tablets to Windows 9.0 you will find that the desktop has been completely removed. Will anyone miss it though? Sources: Neowin / ZDNet With Microsoft’s next major release in development, details about the update are starting to fall into place. We previously reported that the desktop will be disabled by default when Threshold is booted up on desktop-class PCs, but the story will be a bit different for smaller tablets. First of all, on smaller Windows devices - the ones where Microsoft gives away the license for free - the classic desktop will be going away. These devices will live in the Modern environment and this change is one of the reasons why the Surface mini did not ship. This makes a lot of sense too - on small devices like the Dell Venue 8 Pro, the desktop is nearly impossible to use as you lack the precision of a mouse (this is also why the Surface Mini would have shipped with a pen) so keeping these devices locked to the Modern environment is logical. Users running Threshold on a desktop/laptop will get a SKU, or version, that puts the Windows Desktop (for running Win32/legacy apps) front and center. Two-in-one devices, like the Lenovo Yoga or Surface Pro, will support switching between the Metro-Style mode and the Windowed mode, based on whether or not keyboards are connected or disconnected. The combined Phone/Tablet SKU of Threshold won't have a Desktop environment at all, but still will support apps running side by side, my sources are reconfirming. This "Threshold Mobile" SKU will work on ARM-based Windows Phones (not just Lumias), ARM-based Windows tablets and, I believe, Intel-Atom-based tablets.
crc-ict Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 I wonder what this means for the version of Office which is included on Surface RTs? It's about the only thing I have found useful about my Surface RT, so it would be a huge loss for it to disappear.
DrPerceptron Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 I wonder what this means for the version of Office which is included on Surface RTs? It's about the only thing I have found useful about my Surface RT, so it would be a huge loss for it to disappear. Presumably it'll go to Metro able apps... like it really should've been for the current version. The only thing I use the desktop for on my RT is Office... which is a tad annoying.
abillybob Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 This thread has confused me a little so are you saying that when you upgrade the Microsoft Surface Pro 2 for example which has a full functioning desktop experience to the latest Windows 9 version you will be limited to from now on only using Metro Apps! That creates a huge problem as the only reason we are buying Surface Pro's is because they have the desktop functionality like a computer and can replace a full laptop and tablet in one. If they remove the desktop we won't be buying.
Arthur Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 I wonder what this means for the version of Office which is included on Surface RTs? I bet there will be a touch-friendly version of Office for RT that looks the same as Office for iPad.
Arthur Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) This thread has confused me a little so are you saying that when you upgrade the Microsoft Surface Pro 2 for example which has a full functioning desktop experience to the latest Windows 9 version you will be limited to from now on only using Metro Apps! That's not what I'm saying at all. The Surface 2 will have its desktop removed, while the Surface Pro (1, 2 or 3) will keep it since they are neither sub-9" tablets or have Atom processors - they're hybrid devices that run the full version of Windows. Two-in-one devices, like the Lenovo Yoga or Surface Pro, will support switching between the Metro-Style mode and the Windowed mode, based on whether or not keyboards are connected or disconnected. Edited July 2, 2014 by Arthur
sparkeh Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Hopefully this is, finally, a move to a more sensible position where desktops/laptops and tablets/phones get an appropriate, but different, experience rather than the fudge that Windows 8 is. Should have been like this from the start. 3
sonofsanta Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 On a related note: ''Windows Threshold'' said to disable Modern UI on desktops - The Tech Report So desktops will go completely the other way and lose Metro altogether, unless you're a masochist and re-enable it. Looks like the pattern of every-other-version is holding
Arthur Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 Looks like the pattern of every-other-version is holding You mean this one? Windows 7 = Good Windows 8.0 = Bad Windows 8.1 = Good Windows 8.1 Update 1 = Bad Windows 8.1 Update 2 = Good Windows 9.0 = Bad
sonofsanta Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 You mean this one? Windows 7 = Good Windows 8.0 = Bad Windows 8.1 = Good Windows 8.1 Update 1 = Bad Windows 8.1 Update 2 = Good Windows 9.0 = Bad I was thinking more... Windows 8 = Bad Windows 7 = Good Windows Vista = Bad Windows XP = Good Windows ME = So bad it counts three times Windows 98SE = Good Windows 98 = Bad Windows 95 = Good But that's because I'm lucky enough to have minimal experience of Windows 8 and thus have no opinion on the quality of the updates (Yes, 98SE is a bit of a fudge above, but tbh, I wasn't exactly a critical consumer at that point, I only cared if Duke Nukem 3D and Red Alert ran without problem. Which they didn't on ME, which continually crashed on me.)
localzuk Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 You mean this one? Windows 7 = Good Windows 8.0 = Bad Windows 8.1 = Good Windows 8.1 Update 1 = Bad Windows 8.1 Update 2 = Good Windows 9.0 = Bad 8.1 is not really a separate OS IMO. Its kinda like saying XP SP1/SP2/SP3 are all different OSs.
sparkeh Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Yes, 98SE is a bit of a fudge No no no, 98 was awful, 98SE was great, they were so different it should count separately (and make the list work )
Arthur Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 8.1 is not really a separate OS IMO. The 8.1 update you had to download from the Windows Store was OS-sized, as was the time it took to install. Windows 8 RTM will stop receiving updates on 12/01/2016, whereas Windows 8.1 U1 will continue to receive updates. In that sense they are kind of distinct OSs.
localzuk Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 The 8.1 update you had to download from the Windows Store was OS-sized, as was the time it took to install. So were some of the older service packs for older versions of Windows... Windows 8 RTM will stop receiving updates on 12/01/2016, whereas Windows 8.1 U1 will continue to receive updates. In that sense they are kind of distinct OSs. Those same sort of rules also applied to Windows XP with its various service packs. Basically, Microsoft have switched from calling service packs a "service pack" to being a point release.
sparkeh Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 As long as they don't force you to get updates via the store again I don't care what they call them
SYNACK Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 I'd be angry of they pull the desktop on my atom tablets, it makes them twice as useful, if you can still run all desktop apps then maybe but if they remove that feature mine will be covered in cow manure and delivered to MS NZs reception desk. 1
Michael Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Microsoft should allow admins to choose at Sysprep level what kind of interface they want end users to have. Sysprep could then be set to manually specify an interface, or automated depending on the requirements. Microsoft have to realise business and education like consistency when it comes to user interfaces.
gshaw Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) The words removed and forced don't fill me with confidence, just give users choice to use the UI they feel most comfortable with. I don't mind the live tiles on my desktop so leave me the choice if I want to remove them or not! The "we know best" attitude that got forced down with the initial release of Windows 8 is one of the main reasons people hated it so much, had the "boot to desktop" checkbox from 8.1 been there from the start (no pun intended ) the change wouldn't have been so jarring. Edited July 2, 2014 by gshaw 2
jamesbmarshall Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 The "we know best" attitude that got forced down with the initial release of Windows 8 is one of the main reasons people hated it so much. I don't think that's totally fair - a LOT of research went into designing and testing the Modern UI (The Story of Windows 8) but it was probably done on the assumption that the way we use devices would be further ahead that perhaps it is; i.e. fewer people would be using traditional desktops and laptops and there'd be greater penetration of touch-enabled devices. When you make a big change, some things you get right straight away and others you have to refine (i.e. Windows 8.1, and Windows 8.1 Update) based on feedback. After all, you could've ended up with something awful...
Michael Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I don't think that's totally fair - a LOT of research went into designing and testing the Modern UI (The Story of Windows 8) but it was probably done on the assumption that the way we use devices would be further ahead that perhaps it is; i.e. fewer people would be using traditional desktops and laptops and there'd be greater penetration of touch-enabled devices. When you make a big change, some things you get right straight away and others you have to refine (i.e. Windows 8.1, and Windows 8.1 Update) based on feedback. After all, you could've ended up with something awful... So if that's the case, who in their right mind decided that forcing a new UI on everyone was a good idea? The research argument clearly hasn't worked. I also find it strange bearing in mind Microsoft now appear to be releasing new OSes every 2 years. Do Microsoft consider Windows 8 or 8.1 a success, bearing in mind the actual numbers are less than 5% globally, compared with over 50% for Windows 7?
sparkeh Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I don't think that's totally fair - a LOT of research went into designing and testing the Modern UI (The Story of Windows 8) but it was probably done on the assumption that the way we use devices would be further ahead that perhaps it is; i.e. fewer people would be using traditional desktops and laptops and there'd be greater penetration of touch-enabled devices. When you make a big change, some things you get right straight away and others you have to refine (i.e. Windows 8.1, and Windows 8.1 Update) based on feedback. I can't see how anyone can claim that Modern UI wasn't forced on us. MS patently said to us "This is the way its going to be get used to it". If it was based on research then you seriously have to question MS's research methods as Modern UI has been almost universally negatively received and only addressed after a long period of continued negative feedback.
Arthur Posted July 7, 2014 Author Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Do Microsoft consider Windows 8 or 8.1 a success, bearing in mind the actual numbers are less than 5% globally, compared with over 50% for Windows 7? Windows 7 was released almost five years ago, whereas Windows 8 was released 19 months ago and Windows 8.1 eight months ago. Doesn't it stand to reason that the older OS will be installed on more PCs than the newer editions of Windows especially with sales of PCs declining overall? One in five Macs still run Snow Leopard, but that doesn't mean OS X Mavericks was a failure, does it? Edited July 7, 2014 by Arthur
sparkeh Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Windows 7 was released almost five years ago, whereas Windows 8 was released 19 months ago and Windows 8.1 eight months ago. Doesn't it stand to reason that the older OS will be installed on more PCs than the newer editions of Windows especially with sales of PCs declining overall? One in five Macs still runs Snow Leopard, but that doesn't mean OS X Mavericks was a failure, does it? Perhaps a fairer comparison is would be licences sold over a comparable period after OS release: From Windows 8 sales are down millions on Windows 7- The Inquirer Speaking at a Goldman Sachs conference, Microsoft marketing executive Tami Reller told delegates that Windows 8 has shifted 200 million licences in its first 15 months, compared to the 240 million that Windows 7 managed to sell in just one year Remember that a lot of enterprise customers are buying Win 8 licences and downgrading to Win 7 (something I seriously doubt happened with 7 and Vista), making the comparison worse.
Michael Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Windows 7 was released almost five years ago, whereas Windows 8 was released 19 months ago and Windows 8.1 eight months ago. Doesn't it stand to reason that the older OS will be installed on more PCs than the newer editions of Windows especially with sales of PCs declining overall? One in five Macs still runs Snow Leopard, but that doesn't mean OS X Mavericks was a failure, does it? Windows Vista never reached a 50% share now did it? That's considerably older than Windows 7. The decline of PCs is something else altogether, with the rise in popularity of phones and tablets. I also think (I suppose similar to a car), most users expect a computer to last 5 or more years before replacing it and buying a new or newer one. The Apple model has changed, so bearing in mind it's free (Mavericks), I can only speculate it's a compatibility issue or something else which is holding some users back from upgrading.
edutech4schools Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 As long as they don't force you to get updates via the store again I don't care what they call them Why did Microsoft do that, it is a real pain for me when setting up new machines.
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