Anyone buy Apple machines just for the build quality?

[mac_shinobi]

Looks like a manual upgrade then. One SSD and one ribbon cable with a different hdd for storage and the ram kit

[abillybob]

About the retina "4k" resolution, mac os is designed for the high resolution and sizes the gui so that it appears "normal",

 

Im sorry but I do have to point out this isn't true. I have a MacBook Pro here put it up to the full res and everything is tiny.

[flyinghaggis]

Im sorry but I do have to point out this isn't true. I have a MacBook Pro here put it up to the full res and everything is tiny.

 

From what I saw of the MacBook 'retina' (2880x1800) in the Apple store it does run at the native resolution so text is the regular size but much sharper? I think all they're doing is running the screen at what would be the same font size/etc as if it were 1440x900. That way any app/icons/etc that don't have 4k/retina/QHD support simply appear as if they were running on a 1440x900 sized display. It's kind of cheating but it's a good way to support legacy apps without resorting to font/image scaling which would probably break half of them.

Edited April 13, 2014 by flyinghaggis

[seawolf]

Im sorry but I do have to point out this isn't true. I have a MacBook Pro here put it up to the full res and everything is tiny.

 

You misunderstand how the Retina Display resolutions work. The retina display on the MBR emulates a 1440 x 900 resolution, but at 4X the pixel density so that all windows, icons and text are normal size. That means 4 pixels for every 1 on a normal 1440 x 900 resolution so the result is a very crisp, sharp display.

 

The retina display is of course capable of much higher resolutions while still maintaining high pixel density. These are intended for large external monitors where the windows, icons, and fonts won't end up requiring eyes like a hawk to see them.

 

MacBook Pro: Frequently asked questions about using a Retina display | Ernies Flores Blog

[seawolf]

Obviously, but the point was it saved Apple having to continue to nerf performance by using crap hard drives.

 

There's a difference between crap hard drives and slow hard drives. The drives are slow 5400rpm drives, but they are not cheap crap drives. They are usually better quality Hitachi, Samsung, and Fujitsu 2.5" drives. I've only had one of these drives fail in my 8 years of supporting 1,000 + Macs. I have had only a handful fail in the thousands of PCs I've supported over the past 12 years either because I've always spec'd them with good quality components.

[featured_spectre]

There's a difference between crap hard drives and slow hard drives. The drives are slow 5400rpm drives, but they are not cheap crap drives. They are usually better quality Hitachi, Samsung, and Fujitsu 2.5" drives. I've only had one of these drives fail in my 8 years of supporting 1,000 + Macs. I have had only a handful fail in the thousands of PCs I've supported over the past 12 years either because I've always spec'd them with good quality components.

Have to agree here, they use the slower drives also to increase longevity of the devices. a 5400RPM will last longer than a 7200RPM, and when I've opened up Macs, it has usually been Samsung HDDs

[synaesthesia]

I'm not touching that one, I'll upset the fanboys.

[Norphy]

You misunderstand how the Retina Display resolutions work. The retina display on the MBR emulates a 1440 x 900 resolution, but at 4X the pixel density so that all windows, icons and text are normal size. That means 4 pixels for every 1 on a normal 1440 x 900 resolution so the result is a very crisp, sharp display.

 

The retina display is of course capable of much higher resolutions while still maintaining high pixel density. These are intended for large external monitors where the windows, icons, and fonts won't end up requiring eyes like a hawk to see them.

 

MacBook Pro: Frequently asked questions about using a Retina display | Ernies Flores Blog

 

I wonder if abillybob means that he's setting the screen to 1920x1200 emulation mode? If so, you're not running it at its native resolution there, you're running it scaled and of course everything is going to be tiny then.

 

Either that or he's running Windows in desktop mode.

[Brimstone]

If we are getting into a resolution agreement here a retina display is NOT a 4K Display, and better colour accuracy requires more than just more pixels on your screen.

 

Having said that it looks like Apple will be building "Retina Mode" into the latest build of Mac OS X 10.9.3 to drive a 4K at Retina pixel doubled res..

 

Apple building support for driving 4K displays at ‘Retina’ resolution, 60Hz output from 2013 MacBook Pros | 9to5Mac

[mthomas08]

You may want to look at your budget closer, as you complain A LOT on facebook about being financially stuck, or not great in terms of income/outgoings etc, when many people (myself included) have given you advice you plainly want to ignore. Many of the problems I have found with a lot of mac users, who claim to constantly be poor, is because they shell out £1K+ for hardware, slap it on a credit card or take a loan, and then make the absolute minimum payments, then the next year (or when the loan/cc is paid off) do it again. Its a horrible cycle and seems one that many (not saying all) Apple fans fall into.

 

YES! I know someone who is EXACTLY this, a mate who has a MacBook and took out a credit card to get it and often complains at having no money! Don't get me wrong it really is nice looking but he never uses more then what I use my laptop for which isn't much.

 

We all know how 98% of EG Folk are anti apple so like I said before Personal preference / budget etc

 

Completely disagree. I have an iPhone and an iPad (latest one and previous model). Although the iPads were gifts the iPhone is my choice and still my preferred phone, I have played with others but the iPhone is still my preference and has nothing to do with me being Anti HTC, Windows Phone, Blackberrys (which I hated the older models tap tap tiny keys). If I had a choice to purchase a tablet I would go to an Android device mainly because of its cost and simply I don't use the iPad for its features but instead basic App/games and internet access and facetime over WIFI. These facilities are fully available on Android (which I fully tested on a Lenovo S6000).

 

The main gripe many of us especially my self have is when miss-leading information is fed to the likes of home users/SLT to get them. As I mentioned in other posts staff I work with have been told to get a Mac without asking the one important question "What do you intend to use it for" when both came back to me and asked the same question I gave them that response. They came back with Internet/word. YET they were recommended to spend £1000 on a Mac. In regards to SLT I recently had to put up a fight to avoid getting additional Macs, luckily they actually listened to my facts of information. I then found out the miss-leading information that was given to them. The problems occurring in the room are all down to Windows (wrong down to CS4 Adobe Premiere) the problems wouldn't exist on Macs (wrong they will because Premiere works the same way on the Mac - the video editing teacher confirmed this). The Macs last longer and you will always be able to upgrade the OS free (wrong, our 7 year old Macs are not able to upgrade to the latest OS and are struggling to keep up - we are also not able to add them to the Mac server we have) - Confirmed by the Mac guy we had visit us. Our 5 year old Macs are also starting to struggle a little bit even after being fully rebuilt. The guy who fed this information to SLT because he has a Mac at home (and we don't) immediately made a pro at Macs although he hasn't been able to help us at all. He hasn't been able to build the Macs, maintain them, build the Mac server, maintain the imaging/profile manager yet he claimed he "knew Macs better then us because WE don't understand them". Also when problems occur its always the Windows PC's to blame, from Printing, projectors and software not working correctly. And then there is the 8/9 year old PCs that some Schools have (like mine) which of course according to Mr Mac above would be fixed by a brand new Mac. Without mentioning that actually a nice new spec Windows PC would make the difference too at 1/3 the cost!.

 

Sorry for the going on/rant part but other people on EduGeek have suffered the exact same thing as I mentioned above. This is also only a small example of what I have personally experienced, I could go on to my other previous encounters including my last job. I have yet to have a single person come up to me or SLT and give REAL facts as to why they need to purchase Macs but the great thing about my boss is she has said "They need to PROVE to me why they need them". I also have the backing of the Business Manager who is SLT as well (he isn't a teacher but see's things from a financial/business view).

 

Its very typical that people give real facts against buying an expensive device and the response is usually "Your Typical Anti Apple". I think the correct term would be Anti spending that kind of money for something that wouldn't ever get used to its full potential.

when you can produce the same for a fraction of the cost. You have to ask your self is there a real point in buying a £1000 device for internet/office usage? Do you buy a device which will not be compatible with around 50 packages of Department software which teachers heavily rely on? (some of it is even 7+ years old). If all of us worked in a place which had extremely large budgets I am sure we would be fine for going more Macs instead of PCs, using Windows servers to run all the software we needed but we don't live in that world and many of our Schools are still being squeezed (even though the Gov claimed they are not). We currently have a lot (cant stress a lot enough) of desktops/laptops/projectors and IWBs which are around 8/9 Years old that are struggling with the day to day life that really should be replaced before going down the route of expensive devices. And I am sure a lot of my colleagues on here in the same situation would feel the same.

 

Apple’s new ‘overpriced’ $10,000 Mac Pro is $2,000 cheaper than the equivalent Windows PC | ExtremeTech

 

If you can really afford that kind of money for a PC I don't think you're going to care about saving $2000. If you have THAT money to spend you most likely own a few Ferrari's, a dozen suits and have business meetings in a different country every month in a 5 Star hotel. Even then he/she will pay his PA to use it and probably never actually touch it. It's nice to see though one of the HIGH HIGH end of equipment which most Schools/home users would never be able to afford actually be cheaper then the Windows PC equivalent. Still Apple win on that price war just a shame no one in the "working class" will buy it.

Edited April 14, 2014 by mthomas08

[seawolf]

I agree that nothing should be purchased for the wrong reasons or based on misinformation. However, I think your frustrations with a single person at your school have resulted in some over the top conclusions.

 

For one, there is no way a $400 PC is going to be equivalent in specs and quality to a $1,200 iMac. Or, a $220 PC is going to be equivalent to a $660 Mac Mini. That would be feeding your management as much misinformation as you're complaining of. Now, a $400 PC might in fact solve the problem at hand and a $660 Mac Mini or $1,200 iMac isn't needed in any way, but that's a different argument.

 

As for Premiere Pro, it does in fact have its own problems even on Macs, and I consider it to be absolute rubbish compared to FCPX. We stopped using Premier Pro two years ago in favour of FCPX in fact and our media teacher and students have never been happier. If the argument were to get Macs so they could use iMovie, FCPX, Motion, and Logic Pro - I would be right there fighting in that corner. But, not just because they thought Premier Pro would magically work better on a Mac.

[abillybob]

Guys I think the whole Apple vs Microsoft debate could go on forever. Every OS has it's benefits and each user has their preferences. Me personally I prefer Windows always have and I find it easier to integrate into a network and manage these devices than I do with Macs, there is no debating that Macs are overpriced for the hardware you get but it's the reason I bought my Alienware it's a luxury you think with your heart sometimes and not with your head! The debate could go on forever like most other debates we have seen on here and there's no point you won't change anyone's personal opinions. It's like the whole Xbox vs PS4 argument.

 

I don't know about others but I'm getting bored of these threads and will now stop commenting. I have done what I needed to do which is put my point across and people can choose which they prefer there is no need for this anymore.

[mac_shinobi]

Totally agree with the last comments / posts that both @seawolf and @abillybob have made. They both have pro's and cons and each have there place for certain things. You need to find out the requirements and what the tool will be used for before suggesting what tool to use / what route to take ....

 

If you don't then it's like suggesting to use and or buy a grand prix race car or buggati veyron sports edition to someone who only needs to walk a mile to work and back each day and doesn't need a car that is fast or expensive or may not even require a car at all and may just be after a bike as you haven't taken the most important first step of finding out what they need, what there budget is, what it will be used for etc

 

[glennda]

For one, there is no way a $400 PC is going to be equivalent in specs and quality to a $1,200 iMac. Or, a $220 PC is going to be equivalent to a $660 Mac Mini. That would be feeding your management as much misinformation as you're complaining of. Now, a $400 PC might in fact solve the problem at hand and a $660 Mac Mini or $1,200 iMac isn't needed in any way, but that's a different argument.

 

This is my main gripe against Apple kit for the consumer - they think windows is cr*p because they run it on a £300 laptop but OSX is actually amazing because they run it on a £1500 machine.

 

use a machine that runs windows and costs £1500 (X1 Carbon, T440s etc) then compare the two.

[Norphy]

there is no debating that Macs are overpriced for the hardware you get

 

More expensive than a Windows computer from another brand, certainly. "Overpriced" is pushing it though. I spent £1400 on my 27" iMac three years ago. I'm happy with it. It does what I want it to do and it does it extremely well. Are you going to tell me that I've spent to much money on it? That it's overpriced? Who are you to say that? It is down to the individual or organisation buying the thing to decide whether it's value for money or not.

 

(For the record, at the time it was actually very good value compared to a desktop PC with a 27" screen as at the time 27" IPS screens were the better part of £900 and if you bought PC with similar hardware it would have cost about £600)

[mthomas08]

I agree that nothing should be purchased for the wrong reasons or based on misinformation. However, I think your frustrations with a single person at your school have resulted in some over the top conclusions.

 

For one, there is no way a $400 PC is going to be equivalent in specs and quality to a $1,200 iMac. Or, a $220 PC is going to be equivalent to a $660 Mac Mini. That would be feeding your management as much misinformation as you're complaining of. Now, a $400 PC might in fact solve the problem at hand and a $660 Mac Mini or $1,200 iMac isn't needed in any way, but that's a different argument.

 

As for Premiere Pro, it does in fact have its own problems even on Macs, and I consider it to be absolute rubbish compared to FCPX. We stopped using Premier Pro two years ago in favour of FCPX in fact and our media teacher and students have never been happier. If the argument were to get Macs so they could use iMovie, FCPX, Motion, and Logic Pro - I would be right there fighting in that corner. But, not just because they thought Premier Pro would magically work better on a Mac.

 

Think your making your own over the top conclusions, I based the spec of the machine to what it will be doing. Exactly the reason why I say Windows PC over a Mac, no point spending that kind of money on a device which isn't going to be used for its max potential. I didn't give them misleading information I gave them what was needed and enough to last 5+ years as well.

 

I did not say the cheaper Windows PC was matching the spec of the over priced Mac I simply told them this is what you need as shown with the current Windows PC which that staff member uses and has used for 3 years with no trouble. As for Premiere this isn't my choice nor my specialty it's all down to the teacher who actually uses the software.

 

Sorry for going on but I am not having anyone claim "I give misleading info" the only time I would ever do that is if I actually didn't know and I am never afraid of putting my hands up on that.

[featured_spectre]

To be fair, adobe products USED to be miles better on Macs however, and the reputation has stuck. Now the playing field has been leveled substantially now that it takes GPU power primarily over CPU.

 

As for purchases here, where I am now. IF there is a need for buying Macs (such as a specific software required and it can only be used on a Mac) then we will buy a Mac Server (maybe a Mac mini server or something), and then set up a remote service for it. We wouldn't buy up one machine for each member of staff.

[seawolf]

As for purchases here, where I am now. IF there is a need for buying Macs (such as a specific software required and it can only be used on a Mac) then we will buy a Mac Server (maybe a Mac mini server or something), and then set up a remote service for it. We wouldn't buy up one machine for each member of staff.

 

That probably wouldn't work very well. It would be like using Terminal Services to play Crysis 3 on a Windows Server. Better not to even bother IMHO.

[seawolf]

Think your making your own over the top conclusions, I based the spec of the machine to what it will be doing. Exactly the reason why I say Windows PC over a Mac, no point spending that kind of money on a device which isn't going to be used for its max potential. I didn't give them misleading information I gave them what was needed and enough to last 5+ years as well.

 

I did not say the cheaper Windows PC was matching the spec of the over priced Mac I simply told them this is what you need as shown with the current Windows PC which that staff member uses and has used for 3 years with no trouble. As for Premiere this isn't my choice nor my specialty it's all down to the teacher who actually uses the software.

 

Sorry for going on but I am not having anyone claim "I give misleading info" the only time I would ever do that is if I actually didn't know and I am never afraid of putting my hands up on that.

 

My apologies. I obviously misread what your were trying to say. A word of advice - minimising run on sentences would convey your point more clearly and make misunderstandings less likely.

[Fleetwood]

Boys and their toys, eh...

[spacebar]

Apple are apparently going to be making a "cheap" imac soon according to reports, so see what happens then. Hope its nothing like the iPhone C which is a complete waste of time.

[Norphy]

Apple have a history of doing this. The last one was marketed directly to education at around the time they were using nVIDIA chipsets and Core 2 Duo CPUs. It was similar to the lowest end 20" iMac at the time but had a few features like Bluetooth removed and iirc a lower clocked CPU.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Apple have a history of doing this. The last one was marketed directly to education at around the time they were using nVIDIA chipsets and Core 2 Duo CPUs. It was similar to the lowest end 20" iMac at the time but had a few features like Bluetooth removed and iirc a lower clocked CPU.

 

They did it with a 21.5" core i3 machine as well. No bluetooth, but still with the wireless, a 3.06GHz core i3, 4GB RAM, 250GB HDD, was good at the time. Can't remember how much they went for though.

[Norphy]

Ah right, I didn't realise they'd made a newer one since then.

[computerguy]

I wish they'd hurry up and add touch to their macbooks. I found an apple price list in one of my schools and someone had circled the retina macbooks and noted they were the touchscreen models. A red sharpie quickly resolved this misunderstanding!