russdev Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 @j17spark and localzuk Can you take argument offline and use pm feature and lets get back to answering op question which is Can you recommend some specs and models please? We need about 15 macs for the music department, they need to obviously be man enough for music software, we will be using Sibelious, maybe Logic, and other software, needs to have all the correct outputs etc. Don't really know alot about them, other than "why the hell no right mouse button, do'h" lol, anyways, advice would be greatfully received. Many thanks Russell
localzuk Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 The discussion is directly related to this though - I have recommended that the person get a suite of imacs and an xserve. j17sparky says that they also need pro sound cards - which I deny. So, I won't be pursuing it anyway, as that is pretty much my summary.
Guest Guest Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 Well i was going to leave this thread as is but ill add. I DO NOT recommend pro soundcards. I recommend a "real" cheap soundcard such as M-Audio. And if he wants to link up his existing keyboards (no point buying new USB ones if he already has "normal" midi one) he will need a MIDI input. This can be bought on its own or as part of 95% of soundcards - killing 2 birds...
Domino Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 ScotMK, I'd reccomend seeing if a local studio will let you go look at their setup, maybe a smaller one would be better (you find most sound guys like showing off their gear, so this shouldn't be a problem) Depending on what recording software you want to run (logic, cubase, garageband, etc) you should find a iMac will cover it all.
mattx Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 Look, everyone knows Macs are pants at most things, so lets just stop going on and suggest everyone use their Vic20's and a copy of Steinberg 12....
HodgeHi Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 I think i need to say something as i feel my post may have aggravated a few people on this thread. I will be the first one to hold my hand up and say " i know nothing about music and the technology behind music". This was my point. I purchased macs not soley because they look great on the desk. I purchased them because reading this forum over the last few months more and more people are posting saying that their school is investing in macs. I think a majority of these posts have come from secondary schools. Therefore the decision was made to purchase macs to allow the pupils to get experience on both platforms to give them the skills needed when they get to secondary schools that have macs in them. Garageband and the rest of the iLife suite is a bonus. The downside to running macs is lack of an upgrade path, so its lucky the components in them are of a high quality, and the latency? Well i can hear but i don't do music. It sounded good enough for me (maybe "no" was the wrong word to use) and since we generally don't have any music qualified teachers in the school (the guy comes in) no one could really debate that. If you wish to grab a mac and test it against a better spec PC with a high quality sound card and USB midi keyboard then be my guest. Maybe it would be beneficial for all then we would have a better understanding of the differences of hardware. It would have to be done by a neutral person though ;-) To sum up i know jack about music and the technology requirements for it and i can only go on what other people say (the whole reason of loaning out the keyboard). I was just pointing out the fact that you can still get something reasonable out of them. But since they already have a Music suite kitted out i'm a little puzzled. PS i use iMac core 2 duos educational base models, and Macbooks educational base models, with a few Mac minis and and Xserve and XRAID 1TB.
PEO Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 Can i just say. I was asked by a teach to setup a printer on a mac ibook (i think thats right for a mac laptop) and i at first was bamboozeled!!! but because i seen it as an opertunity to investigate and see how to install a printer driver, i then became more intrested in what else it has to offer. I personaly think macs are fresh and perform really well. and im happy that i played around with one becuase now im saving my 1p to buy one. macs are not pants, neither is linux, or windows, its what your use too. windows dominates the market, not sure how on par macs and linux is. not sure what im trying to say here but i think every one has a bioest opinion, and we should try and not be so ermmmm ooow crap errrrmmmm help!?
Grommit Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 Mac Book Pro VS Toshiba for a small room of Laptops Mac The Cheapest Mac Book Pro is £1,105.53 ex VAT You need a Mac Book Pro for a Secondary School because a normal Mac Book's 13" Screen is a bit to small so you really need a 15" screen. So 20 Mac Book Pro's cost £22,100.00 ex VAT Toshiba A Toshiba 15" Core Duo all Bells and Whistles (firewire, wireless etc) is £349.00 So 20 Laptops cost £6,980.00 that a difference of £15,120.00 That's Fifteen THOUSAND pounds more for Mac.. just because it's a prettier looking piece of kit... How can you justify that...? unless you are obsessed..
PEO Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 feel ike i have just been ran over by a 15 ton truck.... thanks grommit
localzuk Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 Err... Where can you get a core 2 duo of the same spec as the macbook pro, with hard disk of the same size, with graphics card of the same spec, with a DVD-DL drive etc... for £349?? I'd love to be able to get that!! For an equivalent computer to the base macbook pro (which has the following spec: 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GB Ram, 128Mb graphics, 120GB HDD and a 15" screen), I had a look through the toshiba range available at insight, and the nearest I could come up with is the Toshiba Tecra M9-13A. It's spec is actually a little higher (2.4Ghz, 160GB HDD) but it has a smaller screen (14.1"). The price for the mac is 1099.99, the price for the toshiba is 1083.99... Not quite £15k difference. On the otherhand, the Toshiba Satellite Pro L40-12T, from Insight, would be £331 (the cheapest dual core - note, not core 2 duo). The longevity of the 2 above would likely be 5 years. This one would be 2 before it was sluggish... Especially with the impending Vista role-out coming in a year or so.
Ric_ Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 Just to add another alternative (the way that I have done this), is purchase iMacs and a second hand dual-G4 and a OS X Server license... you end up with a better server than using a Mac Mini but you don't have to shell out for an XServe. For midi connection we use 2-port USB-MIDI interfaces and these work admirrably. When I priced up the room with Mac Minis and monitors it came out more expensive than iMacs... I didn't even bother looking at Mac Pros!
HodgeHi Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 One thing i will mention is check the prices on the pcwb site. If you have an account their prices can be competitive. A top end mac mini with a 17" screen a keyboard/mouse bundle £530 at one point. We picked up a few good deals considering apple prices tend to be pretty similar everywhere. At one point mac minis were (top end model) around £400 before the price cut. I had to double check if i recall correctly the spec to make sure it was right.
mattx Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 What you are also forgetting is that every time ANYONE purchases a Mac or any Apple product, God kills a kitten. Its true, I've seen it.
HodgeHi Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 Well, i aint too keen on cats...Hmm, i only have enough in the budget for another 3000 macs...Kill away God!! :-)
Quackers Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 After the way i'm currently detesting Vista so much, i'm considering moving everything apple mac, cannot be any worse. God i hope i can skip Vista all togeather.
mattx Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 i'm considering moving everything apple mac, Then you will have the death of many kittens on your mind. How on earth will you live with yourself ? Are all people from your neck of the woods kitten haters ?
webman Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 After the way i'm currently detesting Vista so much, i'm considering moving everything apple mac, cannot be any worse. God i hope i can skip Vista all togeather. And you would do what with your current hardware which you can't run OSX on? Sounds like cutting your nose off to spite your face to me... What's wrong with XP? I don't get why so many people are jumping on the Vista+Office2k7 bandwagon already.
Quackers Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 Nothing wrong with XP, Vista is the first OS MS have ever pumped out i have actually hated. Office 2007 is great. Vista poo, we have 6 licences for vista here, so i could evalulate. I do not like Apple Mac's never have, but i hate Vista too, so where do you move to, i cannot stay on XP for ever.
webman Posted October 9, 2007 Posted October 9, 2007 Linux? Use your existing hardware, no licences to pay, use as many copies as you want, give it away to students & staff, plus many more bonuses by default over Microsoft and Apple...
localzuk Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 ok put price aside..... what about the mac....!? Well, the quality of build has, in recent years, gone down a bit - gone are the days of a computer you could throw a bomb at and it would survive and be happy to work for you. Now they regularly have issues with logic boards, graphics cards, backlights, etc... And the official Applecare Packs are quite expensive when compared to comparable products, and if you don't buy this and you have a problem after 90 days, you will have to argue with the people at the warranty place that you don't have to pay in order to ensure it isn't a software issue. However, these are issues I have only come across rarely. Overall, they are a good buy and well worth it.
gaz350 Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 The quality issue...... This is a big issue for all manufactures of electrical equipment if they want to sell in the EU. Amazing how lead free solder + WEE has decreased general build quality of goods. Products are now being designed so that the manufacture can cheaply recover components for recycling. On this side of things Apples build quality is extremely high. Most of the materials are desirable and of high quality to be reusable in the future. I remember reading about how lead free solder has had a huge knock on effect on reliability of consumer electronics due to it being brittle compared to solder containing lead. Don't know if this has been overcome but was defiantly the case over a year ago. but gone are the days of hardware lasting 10 years!!!
HodgeHi Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 I think the driving down of costs in the overall market is having an effect on quality as well. To cut the cost of manufacturing means reducing the quality of some of the components inside. eg, cheapass motherboards inside budget machines, bad memory chips etc.
Geoff Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 Everything is made in the same factories in China anyways. Plus they can make good stuff. But it's a quality vs cost thing. Retailers go to said factory, say "I want you to make X and Y price per unit in a run of Z units" and said factory will ajust the quality of the raw materials + labour + etc unit it hits that price point.
Guest Guest Posted October 10, 2007 Posted October 10, 2007 Err... Where can you get a core 2 duo of the same spec as the macbook pro, with hard disk of the same size, with graphics card of the same spec, with a DVD-DL drive etc... for £349?? I'd love to be able to get that!! which has the following spec: 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GB Ram, 128Mb graphics, 120GB HDD and a 15" screen), Full page of them here http://www.ebuyer.com/search/?strSearch=&bolShowAll=true&intStoreID=5&intCatID=10&intSubcatUID=2114&bolShowAll=true&intPage=2 Heres an Acer (personally not keen on acer mind) http://www.ebuyer.com/product/132848 Heres a higher spec HP one http://www.ebuyer.com/product/133518/show_product_specifications # So although he exagerated by saying £15k, £7-10k is quite easily achievable. And lets be right about it, you dont need a good GFX card or DVD-w for schools. So if you have a look theres a HP one with same spec as the mac for £425 ex vat, so what? Rough work out of around £13-14k saving... Like said £13k is ALOT of money for the prettyness, and for 1 program which isnt avalible on PC; Garageband. £13k would buy you another 30 laptops! Ignoring the chance of a +150% increase in laptop purchases is just plain wrong imo. Plus add a mac server and its reduandancy devices to the mix... BTW localuk this isnt directed at you. My reply would be the same regardless of who posted. Im feeling much jollier today thanx
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