Oi Oi.. Whats going on here then ?!?! PfS and BSF ?

[Grommit]

@torledo

 

Just so as I've got this straight -

 

 

What you are saying is that teachers should learn how to use to the software, (part of their CPD) and therefore my concerns would not be an issue ?

 

Right, so even more money spent on CPD, cover teachers and training then?

 

You'd still have concerns Daveyboy, but I think teachers have to be more self-sufficient when it comes to the use of ICT. They're not exactly the stereotypical two finger typer (which my dad is btw ) and don't ask questions like..."So where does the tape go" and there are some teachers at the forefront of using ICT in new and innovative ways but overall the standard is far short of where it should be. I mean these teachers are supposed to be preparing our young people for a world where computers and software applications dominate the world of work. And yet all we seem to hear from teachers is complaints about computers replacing traditional teaching - when the crux of the matter is lack of ICT proficiency among teachers is also detrimental. And is something that needs to be addressed.

 

Which Planet are you living on mate.. in la la land.... ? Most of the teachers I know can barely logon let alone be proficiant with ICT and the setting up of systems/software to teach....

 

Thats why they have Support staff.. As in Science Support Staff, Food Tech Support Staff, Design and Tech Support Staff, Music Support Staff... and ICT SUPPORT STAFF.....

 

Not just ICT Managed Service Supplier Drones..

[localzuk]

Part of the problem as I see it, is fear of breaking computers when they try doing things. I have been able to get most teachers to try various things themselves now before getting me involved. So for example they are now mostly happy to do things like: check its switched on, check cables etc...

 

I think it takes time and patience but most teachers (note: most! not all!) will become happy enough to get by on their own. There are of course some who will never pick it up, and some who refuse to.

 

ICT support staff are not there to switch things on or click on escape if a message comes up. They are there to ensure the school systems are working as best they can, to ensure that provision is made for the future and to ensure lessons will be able to go ahead properly. The basics are necessary skills that the teachers should be initially trained to do, and then they should seek training as and when they need it.

[DMcCoy]

Its odd really, some staff panic when they see an error box, but are still quite happy to leave a small pile of broken bits of printer for me to find.

[localzuk]

Its odd really, some staff panic when they see an error box, but are still quite happy to leave a small pile of broken bits of printer for me to find.

 

Well thats because a printer can be replaced but the work that the staff have on their computers, which they should be storing centrally, isn't backed up, and they generally get scared that they may lose it...

[torledo]

@torledo

 

Just so as I've got this straight -

 

 

What you are saying is that teachers should learn how to use to the software, (part of their CPD) and therefore my concerns would not be an issue ?

 

Right, so even more money spent on CPD, cover teachers and training then?

 

You'd still have concerns Daveyboy, but I think teachers have to be more self-sufficient when it comes to the use of ICT. They're not exactly the stereotypical two finger typer (which my dad is btw ) and don't ask questions like..."So where does the tape go" and there are some teachers at the forefront of using ICT in new and innovative ways but overall the standard is far short of where it should be. I mean these teachers are supposed to be preparing our young people for a world where computers and software applications dominate the world of work. And yet all we seem to hear from teachers is complaints about computers replacing traditional teaching - when the crux of the matter is lack of ICT proficiency among teachers is also detrimental. And is something that needs to be addressed.

 

Which Planet are you living on mate.. in la la land.... ? Most of the teachers I know can barely logon let alone be proficiant with ICT and the setting up of systems/software to teach....

 

Thats why they have Support staff.. As in Science Support Staff, Food Tech Support Staff, Design and Tech Support Staff, Music Support Staff... and ICT SUPPORT STAFF.....

 

Not just ICT Managed Service Supplier Drones..

 

Now I see your objections to change in ICT, you're happy for you and your support staff to play nanny to ict illiterate teachers for the next however many years. Plus you're a very spikey individual, you can barely disguise your antagonism towards me becuase of my comments on bsf. Which is fine, I can live with that - as I don't believe I can learn very much from you anyway....whereas the likes of broc and grumbledook are more knowledgeable and don't seem to have a chip on their shoulder. Tell me is there a way I can ignore your posts/responses i.e an option I can check.

i.e ignore this douce. (In reponse to you calling me a fool a couple of times)

[GrumbleDook]

@Torledo

 

Whilst I may not always agree with Grommit, he is spot on with his point of view from *his* side of the fence ... having been involved with some of the nastier cock-ups ...

 

@Grommitt

 

Accept that some people you cannot win over.

 

To all and sundry ... can we keep comments on topic and not personal please.

 

This has been a public safety announcement on behalf of the EduGeek massive!

[Grommit]

whereas the likes of broc and grumbledook are more knowledgeable and don't seem to have a chip on their shoulder.

 

Grumbledook and Broc are Senior Mangers very knowledgeable and articulate... I am not ... I am a Middle Manger and a bit spiky....

 

I am sorry that you seem offended by my replies and I shall lay off using the word fool.. or any other derogatory terms about your naivety of the BSF..

 

I have been through the BSF and never in my life have I seen so many people strive to make as much money as they can... with no consideration of the working community around them…. They say they do but it’s all hollow buzz words…

[torledo]

@grommit

 

I can accept that I may be being naive on the effects of bsf.

 

@grumbledook

 

You're right that the post has drifted off-topic somewhat. And has at times become a bit personal.

 

But some of the posts on here HAVE changed my perceptions. Particularly

what broc was saying.

[bonjour]

BSF is certainly going to be interesting.

 

It has potential to be a success, as it should do with the amount of money that's being ploughed into it.

 

However, I believe their aims and the money available just don't marry up. We're already seeing some corners cut. Cat7 was in the original spec. (as it should be with the BSF programme intended to gear up schools for 50 years or so), but predictably has now been cut as it would cost far too much dough - think entire overhaul of of every single school's infrastructure at every level.

 

It'll be interesting to see what sort of level they'll bring the schools up to. Will we be seeing Cisco IP telephony systems in all the schools (as an e.g.)? I helped introduce one of these in my previous school and it was fantastic, though admittedly they were already 100% Cisco before my arrival.

 

Ultimately, I believe the teachers are going to have to learn to adapt. They're not necessarily going to have a technician on call throughout the school day, or at the very least less technicians.

 

I can just see BSF lining some companies' pockets with a lot of money whilst the schools are short-changed, just as local government usually is when dealing with the private sector.

[webman]

Ultimately, I believe the teachers are going to have to learn to adapt. They're not necessarily going to have a technician on call throughout the school day, or at the very least less technicians.

 

Yes, all school staff will have to adopt and education of students will ultimately suffer from the bad planning and support of BSF ICT managed services.

 

Or alternatively, things could be better for schools (and thus the learners) if we: were consulted, kept our jobs, were paid a decent (standard!) wage, had adequate budgets.

 

As it happens though, it doesn't seem that they want to listen to us.

[localzuk]

Or alternatively, things could be better for schools (and thus the learners) if we: were consulted, kept our jobs, were paid a decent (standard!) wage, had adequate budgets.

 

As it happens though, it doesn't seem that they want to listen to us.

 

The thing is, in 99% of cases as I see it, if the government invested the funds for ICT, that they are doing already, directly in the LA's or directly to the schools themselves, a much better system could have been devised! On one hand we have financial management handed to schools, and the other hand is taking it away when it comes to ICT? Why is that? Why does the government believe that schools can't control their own ICT?

 

For example, if a school was to be given £1m in ICT funding (random number), and this was ring-fenced specifically for ICT only, the school could surely have spent it properly, where they thought they needed it? It could even be safeguarded by making it so that all projects taken from those funds would have to be passed by the LA before going ahead, but just signing it all over to a company seems like the least cost effective and least efficient method available. Sigh.

[muppet]

I agree with the comments that under BSF teaching staff will almost be expected to carry out basic fault diagnosis and repair themselves. They may even be asked to carry out further checks by the helpdesk, as Dell etc. do. Now this may be a little niaive of me but hasn't the workforce remodelling that we have recently gone through precluded teaching staff from doing Admin roles? And aren't our jobs classed as being Admin? I'd love to know if this topic has been discussed with the NUT etc. And if so what their response was!! I mentioned this to a few friends within the teaching staff and they all stated that Satan would have to ice skate to work before they did anything other than check the equipment was plugged in or report the problem to a help desk!! Incidentally they all expect their problems to be resolved within 24 hours at the most!!

 

Interesting times ahead when BSF really kicks in.

[GrumbleDook]

Teaching staff will not, I repeat *not*, be expected to do anything other than check it is plugged in and give it the usual restart.

 

The call will then be logged with whatever helpdesk is present, whether it is in house staff that have been kept on, or whether it is the helpdesk belonging to the managed service provider.

 

Then we get down to the time it takes to investigate and repair ... this is down to whatever is stipulated in the contract. If some numpty says 3 working days for a diagnosis ... then the school is screwed ... if the contract says 'investigate and escalate / process within 2 hours' then that is what you get. A priorities chart should also need to be produced so that it is publically viewable what gets done first.

 

Schools that have a high level of first response will notice a drop ... but might notice an improvement in total fix time and a reduction in the number of support calls (firefighting / incident management is often the first section of tech support that is perfected, often at the expense of someone to look at the whole picture and sort out problems before they arise).

[bonjour]

Thing is, I can't help but think about the Jarvis fiasco.

 

Screwed on the contract and abysmal service thereafter.

[bossman]

Grumbledook:

I work off a 5 mins response time for first contact then a fix within the first tweny minutes and then within 1 hour and then one day and then one week dependant on the priority it has been given. This is constantly being updated by the minute and it really works. We have even been given a mention in our ofsted 2003 which is i am told very rare for technical views to be measured in an ofsted report.

 

I am for ever proactive and always looking at different approaches but it seems that BSF has gone daft with gadgets which have been proven in america not to function with any vigour for both the students and staff and have resorted to many campuses going back to fundimental teaching practises using good old desktop PCs and the odd laptops.

I think that education like the building trade has been taken over by by the large corporations hell bent on making vast profits at the expense of the British taxpayer.

Most of the acadamies which have been built are clearly not hitting their targets and actually failing the students so long term will cost ten times as much as a modest investment in secondary schools IT.

 

BSF (below standard functionality) sorry to be such a drudge but it does not make economical sense. I feel very sorry for those people whose life had been blighted by BSF and i do not relish the future that it holds for myself and my team.

[webman]

BSF (below standard functionality)

 

Excellent!! I've been trying to come up with something good for the BSF initialism for ages but that's a good one

[bossman]

Hi All,

I have found that everyone on this forum even people that i don't fully agree with to be fundimentaly good guy's with their schools at heart and without a shadow of a doubt the students wellbeing at the forefront of their thinking.

 

May I say hand on heart that I hope everyone finds their way through this quagmire called BSF and doesnt come out the other side damaged in any way shape or form because of the profit driven greed of some large companies too blatant to mention on this forum but they know who they are and the people who are driving them and it all in the disguise of

building a better education system.

 

We have a good educational system it's just that it needs a purpose and not a profit.

[Grommit]

Hi All,

I have found that everyone on this forum even people that i don't fully agree with to be fundimentaly good guy's with their schools at heart and without a shadow of a doubt the students wellbeing at the forefront of their thinking.

 

May I say hand on heart that I hope everyone finds their way through this quagmire called BSF and doesnt come out the other side damaged in any way shape or form because of the profit driven greed of some large companies too blatant to mention on this forum but they know who they are and the people who are driving them and it all in the disguise of

building a better education system.

 

We have a good educational system it's just that it needs a purpose and not a profit.

 

As I have mentioned before.. The In-House ICT at a School puts the School first and is only obligated to the School, Staff and Students

 

A managed service company has to put it's shareholders first, and school second and is only obligated and responsible to making profit for the shareholders..

 

Thats what businesses are in existance for.. to make a profit...

[psydii]

Bossman, you've obviously got your systems sewn up.

 

Could you elaborate...

Total no. machines

Total no. users.

Staff numbers, Student numbers

Wireless (yes/no; Coverage; num wireless enabled devices)

Av Age of client devices

Num Client devices under 3 yrs

% Classrooms with IWBs (or equiv)

Windows or Mac (versions?)

Number of 15+ computer suites

MIS flavour?

MIS all staff, or just admin/smt?

Electronic Registration (Yes/no; am-pm/every lesson; system)

VLE?

Remote Access?

Email - Staff/Student?

Staff (teachers; admin; it support; smt) Training strategy

Total staff in IT support team, and experience therein.

 

Maybe this question should be in 'How do you do it?'. We could claim a 5 minute response on most problems - but many of our resolution times are far too long due to vendor related issues. (MSI/WU crippling computers from Jul06-May07, Intel Wifi drivers unusable Jun06-Jan07; sims update system wholey unsuitable in a wireless environment Solus-present with no solution in offing)

 

The KPIs I've seen I'd hesitate to sign up to if it were my teams pay that'd be docked.