Meh F1.

[plexer]

Skilfull in trying not to fall asleep and drive in to the wall, lol

 

Ben

[pcstru]

Skilfull in trying not to fall asleep and drive in to the wall, lol

Ovals are underrated as an arena but the reason Europe avoids them is safety. 22 F1 cars on a short 1 mile oval for 220 laps would have audiences wanting more. Of drivers there would, after a few events, probably be a few less!

[sonofsanta]

Watch a different sport then.

 

Taking it easy. Right.

 

Hard to gain satisfaction from F1 in 2013 - Mark Webber | Red Bull | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN.co.uk

"It is very, very strategic with messages from the pit wall saying 'This is where the tyres are, this is what we are probably capable of doing so can you get us there, please. That is your job, can you please get us to that lap', instead of more pushing the boundaries and having a crack," he said. "You still see the drivers racing like Lewis and I did with three or four laps to go in Bahrain, but we wouldn't race like that on lap seven. You would just be cutting your own wrists and killing the tyres, the stint range and all sorts of stuff.

 

How many radio messages have we heard this year telling drivers to back off, get out the dirty air to protect your tyres, back off, we're not racing them, look after the tyres... I forget which race, but at one point Vettel (iirc) was told he could stop going easy on the tyres now and he suddenly found half a second a lap. Perhaps "racing" was the wrong word to use, as they are still racing each other (some of the time), but they're certainly not driving to the best of their ability.

 

Why should I have to watch a different sport? Why can't I vent my frustration at one I want to watch?

 

(I also have no Sky sub, because I am morally against giving Rupert Murdoch any more money. BBC Highlights is fine by me, though I don't half miss Jake.)

[rdk]

I agree its been boring this year, but much as I dislike Vettel I don't see how you could conclude he is anything but a great driver. However, as I would like to see in the Tour de France I would like to see radio messages restricted to safety warnings only - let the drivers judge when to back off, when to try to pass, when to come in to the pits.

 

I think its wrong to say RBR exploit loopholes as there is no such thing as a loophole (in my opinion) - there are rules and the cars are either within them or not. But I don't like the way F1 has become simply an aerodynamic formula rather than an engine formula. I'd like to see more variety with a rule for engines along the lines of "3 litres, 150 kg, 100 L of fuel per race" and let the engine companies decide what sort of engine to make within those constraints. The same for the cars - give a weight, a size, safety rules and let the designers compete on different designs. Someone might come up with an idea that is way out there and wins everything, but that happens with RBR anyway. Thinks six wheeled Tyrells, ground effect fans etc. Bring them back!

[sonofsanta]

This BBC News story today is pretty relevant, actually: BBC Sport - Sebastian Vettel benefited from mid-season tyre rules change

 

"Going back to 2012 tyres for sure helped us," Red Bull designer Adrian Newey said.

 

"Our car generally gets quite a bit of its benefit in the high-speed corners and the '13 tyres were much more load-sensitive.

 

"It was much easier to damage them if you put too much load into them, so we couldn't really use that high-speed benefit on the '13 tyres."

 

I'm in two minds about tyres affecting a car's performance - I don't like how important they've been this year, but then if one team can look after their tyres much better (Lotus) than another (Mercedes) then arguably their design is better and they deserve the success. Still, Alonso pitting four times in Spain and still winning, and drivers pitting after 1, 2 laps this weekend is a pretty ridiculous situation.

 

(Interesting quote from Button as well on the Spanish Grand Prix: "When we are going around three seconds slower than a GP2 car did in qualifying, and only six seconds quicker than one in GP3 did in the race, there is something wrong. This is the pinnacle of motorsport. We shouldn’t have to drive around as slowly as this to look after tyres.” (Spanish Grand Prix 2013: Ferrari's Fernando Alonso romps to victory on home soil - Telegraph))

[pcstru]

Why should I have to watch a different sport? Why can't I vent my frustration at one I want to watch?

Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound like "go away"! F1 and many other 'high level' racing leagues are IMO extremely tactical competitions rather than all out man vs man slug-fests; more chess than boxing. A lot of racing is the same, there is just too little between the cars and drivers to make overtaking possible, without someone bullying their way up the inside and relying on goodwill to avoid the accident. In lower leagues it's possible to watch the driver behind put the leader under pressure and sometimes that works, they make a mistake. When you get to F1 level, driver mistakes are rare - forcing one is extremely unlikely. So teams become ever more tactical - the best place to pass is the pits, the best way to pass is to make the very best use of the equipment, tyres just happen to be the biggest variable in that equipment mix.

 

Please feel be frustrated by that all you want! I don't think it _can_ really change. If you want some amazing racing, the best thing out there is probably MotoGP; but no, it doesn't really float my boat either.

[sonofsanta]

Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound like "go away"!

 

It did come across a bit like that but then I'm in a social grump because all the staff have come back and ruined my peace and quiet after half term last week, I very quickly get out the habit of dealing with people. SO I may be overly sensitive to these things.

 

F1 has always been torn between the team and the driver, team orders being the most visible (and egregious) example of that.

 

I might start making more of an effort to watch the rallying, actually, there's a hell of a lot of skill goes in to threading the needle through some of those bends at unbelievable speeds.

[Gibbo]

F1 fans have changed a lot this year, and its not for the better. There's so much unjustified hate around just because of Vettel's success. Thankfully this has died out at more recent non Ferrari fan dominated tracks.

 

The BBC were saying that he's the only driver who puts in a staggering amount of time with the car, the team, the technicians and even going to Pirelli to see how the tyres are made and how they change and "cure" over time and under different conditions. But some people aren't seeing or caring about that, they just throw around stupid accusations like the team are making illegal mods.

 

Its like beating up the school swot for getting an A in his exams because he studied more.

[Danp]

'Brawn to leave Mercedes' | Planet F1 | Formula One News

[Gibbo]

You missed off the "according to a report", so yet again its just speculation.

 

It goes on to say "Brawn and Mercedes have failed to reach an agreement on a role in which he would have been happy to stay at the team."

 

This is nothing new, Brawn said to the BBC a few weeks ago that discussions would be ongoing right until the very last race.

 

I think the only real accurate F1 speculation which has any credibility is from Eddie Jordan.

[DrPerceptron]

But some people aren't seeing or caring about that, they just throw around stupid accusations like the team are making illegal mods.

 

Nobody would care if Max Chilton was doing the same thing, they wouldn't care if Max was multiple world champion in the Red Bull either. The team clearly aren't making "illegal" mods, however, their interpretation of "spirit of the rules" leaves a lot to be desired. If the car was illegal, it wouldn't be allowed on track. If it passes all the FIA tests, then it must be legal and they're just better. The same applied to Jimmie Johnson over in NASCAR a few years ago - everyone always said that Hendrick Motorsport had been pushing the limits of what the rules allowed and sure they were caught suggesting he should hit the wall so that they could claim accident damage rather than risk the car being found illegal, but more often than not, the car passed the NASCAR tests post-race.

 

If you look around at the explanations about things that have come to light through the new temperature cameras etc, if Red Bull are doing stuff (like using materials that change when heated and cool down to normal to raise the floor when the car is on track), then they are doing some stunningly clever stuff... but is it in the spirit of the rules? Some don't believe so, however, when have F1 teams ever stayed within the spirit of the rules? If there's a loop hole or anything not specifically outlawed, then you can damn well be sure that some team somewhere is taking full advantage of it, while another team will have decided it's "not in the spirit of the rules".

[teejay]

Not a big fan of Vettel/Red Bull, but loved him doing the donut and climbing the fence at the end of the race:D Oh and Kimi putting softs on for the final lap to take fastest lap from Vettel was hilarious

 

Lets just hope the new regs next year shake things up a bit, doubt it though as the fueld/energy restrictions are quite tight so not only will they be conserving tyres they will be conserving fuel.

[DrPerceptron]

Not a big fan of Vettel/Red Bull, but loved him doing the donut and climbing the fence at the end of the race:D Oh and Kimi putting softs on for the final lap to take fastest lap from Vettel was hilarious

 

Lets just hope the new regs next year shake things up a bit, doubt it though as the fueld/energy restrictions are quite tight so not only will they be conserving tyres they will be conserving fuel.

 

Yes, but at the same time, they could shove the boost and fuel up quickly to make a pass, put a bit of distance between them and return to "cruising pace".

[pcstru]

but is it in the spirit of the rules? Some don't believe so, however, when have F1 teams ever stayed within the spirit of the rules?

 

I love that anyone believes there is some vague notion of "spirit of the rules" in a sport where the difference between first and second place can valued at 10's of millions of pounds.

[Gibbo]

Nobody would care if Max Chilton was doing the same thing, they wouldn't care if Max was multiple world champion in the Red Bull either.

 

Exactly - Eddie Jordan's grid walk on Sunday - started at the front and stopped at P10. What about the rest of the drivers? Its becoming like Premier League football with just the top drivers getting coverage and the back of the grid getting little or nothing.

 

As for Max, didn't he hit someone on the first corner and cause them to retire? Why no coverage?

 

As for Seb, he's been pictured helping the crew dismantle the setup, like he normally does. Cue the rabble saying its just a PR opportunity to make him appear better.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Gibbo

[dave.81]

Would we be having this discussion if he was English???

[synaesthesia]

Damnright. Let's face it, people don't have trouble knocking Hamilton do they? Loads do.

 

Some more amusement, FIA have found that RB's floor doesn't move. Yup, that's "doesn't move" in the same way that their flexible wings that moved in front of everyone's eyes were in fact not flexible and didn't move whatsoever for the FIA. Sure.

[Hefferzzzz]

A key point that hasnt been mentioned is the change to tyre regulations mid season. Before Silverstone everyone was competitive on the '13 tyres. RBR didnt like that (ignore the safety concerns abotu Silverstone its a red herring) so they put unfair pressure on to get teh tyres back to '12 spec when they were dominant. So, everyone elses develpment on faster degrading tyres was wasted whilst RBR just went back to last years spec car and quell surprise dominated every race thereafter. Vettel is not a great. Vettel is not even brilliant. Vettel has a car with superior (illegal) engineering to any other car out there and that is a big part of why he wins so much. Please do not quote Webber not being at the same pace as some sort of defence because it isnt. Everyone knows Seb gets the good stuff before Webber and that Webber gets shafted an awful lot in that team. IF RBR could have one driver and pick up double constructor points then they would.

 

I dislike Horner, Vettel, and RBR. They are no better than playground bullies and have no interest in F1 as a sport at all.

 

 

Oh, while we are at it, I thought that track limits were being rigourously enforced at India......

[sonofsanta]

A key point that hasnt been mentioned is the change to tyre regulations mid season.

 

*cough*

 

 

Anyway, now Seb has won he should sit out the rest of the season so everyone else can have their fun. Though arguably everyone else races like he's in the paddock anyway, the only difference being he's actually 30s and three corners ahead, out of sight.

[Hefferzzzz]

*cough*

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2013 by Hefferzzzz