Is this correct?

[box_l]

We do have copies of the exported data from when the contract ended and it looks like we still have the full exports that were given to the SIMS migration team.

 

We are going to ask them to import ALL the data into a "dirty" database so we still have access.

This will cost the school, but no where near as much as a license to use facility.

@sdashwood

 

Relatively small?, 60% of the normal license fee!

Not everyone wants their data in the "cloud", I don't. It belongs on the schools site IMHO.

I don't make many threads on here, but when I do, I appreciate comments like your first and second paragraphs. You provided useful information.

The third paragraph is a sales pitch and not required.

 

Thanks to everyone for their input.

 

BoX

[michael2k6]

Another thought occurred to me, rather than using Access or Excel, just download and use SSRS. Report builder 3 would be a good option on the back of that too.

 

And Steve, it's nice to finally see some formal presence on here, I tried to get us some senior input for years, beginning to wonder if I should have stayed just to see this! Be careful with the sales pitch though, the mods can get grumpy quickly; the reputation of the company in terms of customer service and communication will massively improve if there's some positive input on the boards.

 

Mic

[matt40k]

Can't blame the guy, must be losing schools faster then pens from the store cupboard. I think EduGeek's tagline should be "beating corporate MD's with common sense since 2005", that's the second MIS MD to take a beating today.

@michael2k6 - be awesome if we had a common report tool with a proper data warehouse across multiple MIS solutions, make switching MIS dead simple.

[pcstru]

We do have copies of the exported data from when the contract ended and it looks like we still have the full exports that were given to the SIMS migration team.

 

The CMIS database schema is relatively open and easy enough to navigate and at that level it is your data, so I can't see they can demand you delete the MSSQL database. Still, time to have a look at the licence - especially since we are on a countdown to potentially replacing CMIS.

[scholarpack]

Disclaimer: we're an MIS supplier. OK, so out of interest, how would you guys envisage the switching process works? Should you be allowed to keep historical data free of charge?

 

Clearly in a cloud based solution this has cost implications for the supplier so a charge would not be unwarranted. We've never yet had a school leave us, but if/when that day does happen, we'd probably offer a package whereby we'd host the customers data indefinitely for a small annual charge if they wanted to go down that route. In our contracts, it states THE SCHOOL OWNS THE DATA. With non cloud based solutions I don't know why a supplier would charge you, since they are no longer going to be providing support or updates and it costs them nothing for the old software to simply sit there. To my mind that's just profiteering, but hey, I would say that.

 

Aside from those solutions, a good reporting engine would allow for most data to be exported. You might lose a bit of data that you simply can't get out, but transcribing that manually would be a lot cheaper than paying your old supplier for years to come. That's the route I suggest for the OP. A good DBA would get that data out no problem in a couple of weeks into a format you can probably make do with for historical data. Another option might be to ask the new supplier to migrate all your historical data into your new system. Some suppliers offer that service and some don't. Whilst more expensive, at least you'd have it all in one place.

[vikpaw]

I would expect to have a set of 'views' that a supplier could use to give you your data and / or use it as the basic level of migration to a new supplier, i.e spreadsheets.

Providing this for all historic data should be a small step away too.

It's only what the front interface should be requesting as collating anyway.

If you can provide hosting and cheap read only access - great.

The problem lies in what you define as "cheap".

You could use a formula similar to a rack space like entity: data x seconds held + plus bandwidth access ... Maybe?

[pcstru]

Disclaimer: we're an MIS supplier. OK, so out of interest, how would you guys envisage the switching process works? Should you be allowed to keep historical data free of charge?

 

Our data should be made available to us in a format that is reasonable. I'd say to be reasonable, the cost of accessing the data should be low - no 'bespoke' systems or software required to get at the files provided and only fairly low grade development skills (college grade relational database stuff) required to make some sense of it. So that might mean a bunch of XML or just straight CSV table dumps or (generously) ISO standard SQL which will create and populate a coherent schema.

[sdashwood]

Hi

 

I’m new to the business so most advice gratefully received. I ’ll try and refrain from the sales pitch from now on…..if I stray back just let me know.

 

The last post is spot on – we would not ask anyone to delete the SQL database with the school’s data in it. This data can be readily accessed with a variety of tools. We charge for the use of our software.

 

Steve

[michael2k6]

^ What Steve said. It's not profiteering in my mind, they're a business, they work by generating a profit. I'm not saying I wholly agree with charging for one machine somewhere to sit with Facility on it for access to the data, but as several people have stated, including Steve, to be fair, bang a reporting tool on (SSRS with Report builder, Access, Excel, etc). And a good DBA wouldn't take a couple of weeks, a poor DBA would take a couple of weeks, a good one would take a couple of hours. It depends what you're trying to get at too. The only thing that's slightly complicated is the way assessments are stored in nsturesults in terms of the way the resutls data is formatted, but that's not unpickable you just have to get your head around it. If you're wanting assessment data that would take a day or two, if you're after everything else which is basic, you're looking at a few hours.

SQL express is free and if you use 2008 R2 with advanced services, it comes with SSRS (SQL Server Reporting Tools). On which if you want a GUI you can bolt on Report Builder 3. Also free.

I'd look at paying a DBA for a week to install that, set up report builder on a couple of clients, or use the web based version to view. Make sure before you do you have a clear spec of what you want the reports to look like and what data you want to get out. That will maximise the time the DBA has to actually create the reports rather than try to organise you. Ensure SLT are aware that the reports they request at this stage will be fixed and can't be changed afterwards to set their expectations, and then everything's covered.

[psydii]

You should be allowed to keep single user access to all the data reporting and analysis.

 

From what I understand ACS are taking a hard line on the pre-existing contract terms where serco may have been more inclined to look the other way. I suppose that unpicking the mess that they bought has to be funded some how.

[jcs808]

Thanks for the replies.

@jcs808

Was there a cost associated with that access?

And who told you this?

 

BoX

 

Our "Local Council IT provider" are undertaking the migration. There may well be an itemised cost for keeping a single connection to the Facility CMIS database which is part of the overall licencing/migration service that we are buying in to but I'm not privy to the financing particulars.