Jobs for the Girls: Encouraging girls to consider qualifications and careers in IT

[Ephelyon]

Cheers. 'Tis true, the BTEC ND in IT group that some of my friends were in years ago was, shall we say, very diverse. A few people who really wanted to get into IT as a career, but the rest were just dossing or couldn't decide what to do yet. Having said that, I did recommend a course like the BTEC to a young lad in Year 9 asking about career routes for IT the other week. I said to take Maths, Business Studies and IT for Options, then do a BTEC ND at college and progress to a BSc Applied Computing or an FdSc Enterprise Computing at uni. That's assuming he'd have to go all the way down to academic route without getting a job to kick off the experience chain in the middle.

[CamelMan]

I have to admit to having heated arguments with folk in RL about believing in meritocracy, and some of the fiercest ones have been with those striving for equal status for females ... who have actually been pushing for positive discrimination against males to allow more females into key roles ... I can understand why something needs to be done to force the change of status quo, but is this really the right way?

 

Oh ... and thanks for those who have added their details too.

 

Keep them coming folks.

 

I think this was the point behind my side note - gender specific (or ethnic or what ever else *ic) encouragement or advertising is one thing. Discrimination is discrimination is discrimination. Not giving someone a job based on their gender is wrong. Giving someone a job due to their gender is wrong. Maybe I have a weird view of the world - but surely skills, compentence and suitablility are what should get you a job - not "he is a bloke so is better" or "We havent met our quota of <> they will have to have it".

 

It depresses me a bit that peoples solution to discrimination is more discrimination.

[elsiegee40]

I am sure that I am not alone in not wanting positive female discrimination. It proves nothing and devalues those of us who are good at what we do.

 

I would feel the same about discriminating positively for any other sector of society. It is important that nobody is discriminated against.

 

I think that what GD has been talking about is more about encouraging females to understand that there is no reason why they shouldn't become successful IT professionals. It is a career choice for females and not just males, in the same way that nursing is a career choice for males and not just females.

 

For whatever reason, it would appear that the archaic attitudes of my school in the 1970s still exist in the back of some girls minds. I was told by my headmaster that girls don't do science... girls aren't told that these days, but many of them still believe it. It's a hard nut to crack.

[Scifigirl]

How long have you been working in IT?

about 7 or 8 years in total

Is this your first, second, third, etc career?

erm- unsure how to answer this one- as explained below

What other jobs / roles have you done previously?

got initial job as supply TA, the full time TA, then helped out wit ICT lessons, the tech left and got her hours while new building was being built and covered reception, moved to new building, was receptionist, and did a little ICT, then got moved to admin with a little TA support, now finally admin, with ICT Tech responsability, tho its becoming to much for me doing it part time and 1 day a week external help

How many interviews did it take to get your first job in IT?

none

Have you ever felt that being female is a help or a hindrance to gaining a job in IT?

not really if they think im dumb because im female, i soon put them right, also many primary techs i have met are female TA's with ICT responsabilty like i was

If you were considering IT (or other engineering / programming careers) whilst at school what support did you receive?

not much really, was persuaded tht science was a better idea, but was more interested in the new tech coming out for special needs kids that i knew from the school i worked out, so that ended up being my path. Being a tech in a special school is a lot different froma a mainstream school because there are lots of extra equipment that you need to be aware of, luckily (or unluckily some might say) my remit also covers all communication devices within the school, and access kit, and i am supported well in that training.

[kempa]

I’ve worked in IT since 2001. I worked in sales previously, which I juggled alongside being a full time mother. I fell into IT. During the turn of this century every job description seemed to require the use of IT skills, so I made a conscientious effort to get some. Before that I sold gas and electric, makeup, clothes and vitamins (to the health conscious) all door to door.

 

I must have attended roughly 50 interviews and applied for at least five times that much. I think my initial lack of success was more to do with not having a current driving licence, rather than my being a woman. I can’t say whether I noticed if being a woman was a help or a hindrance in gaining a job in IT. Interestingly though, one benefit of being a woman in IT is that colleagues seem more willing to discuss their IT problems with me, I don’t use a baffling array of technical lingo. A drawback to being a woman is that there are fewer opportunities to climb the career ladder, but isn't that a failing in every profession not just IT.

 

There were no computer lessons at my school and the only computers I remember were hidden away in the basement, converted by the resident geeks. (Strangely, that was a male only club!) However, we did have a strong science department which did have a 50/50 ratio of male to female teachers and perhaps an even larger ratio of female students. I was lucky to be part of a progressive school that encouraged feminism. (It wasn't a dirty word back then.) We had regular visits from prominent female sports, political and business personalities. So support was always at hand. Please feel free to quote me during the debate.

[FoxtrotFilly]

How long have you been working in IT? I have been working in IT since 1979

Is this your first, second, third, etc career? I started out as a lab technician but then managed to get a trainee role in the NHS operating a ICL george3 system

What other jobs / roles have you done previously? Other than part time jobs whilst at school just 1

How many interviews did it take to get your first job in IT? 1

Have you ever felt that being female is a help or a hindrance to gaining a job in IT? Not a hindernace but you needed to be very good to succeeded - more so than the males although this has iomproved over the years

If you were considering IT (or other engineering / programming careers) whilst at school what support did you receive - I was encouraged to take academic subjects rather than "girlie" topics although typing wouold have been useful - i was encourage to go for any career I wanted to but IT wasn't really taught and it wasn't of interest to me when I was at school but a change of career changed all that and I have made a successful career in IT

[clareq]

How long have you been working in IT?

About 14 years

Is this your first, second, third, etc career?

I was an LSA when the children were small - fitted in well with school holidays etc, and moved into IT when they got older

What other jobs / roles have you done previously?

As I say, I was an LSA prior to this

How many interviews did it take to get your first job in IT?

Just the one - ICT Classroom asistant. I was promoted internally from there

Have you ever felt that being female is a help or a hindrance to gaining a job in IT?

Occasionally dealing with external helpdesks and being told "get your IT chap to look at it" is a bit annoying, but they soon back down when I tell them I'm the senior IT chap!

If you were considering IT (or other engineering / programming careers) whilst at school what support did you receive?

Computers were a glint in Mr Babbage's eye when I was at school!

[Little-Miss]

all the IT Ladies, all the IT ladies.....

[kaphc]

Ok, here's my answers - this is a very interesting thread, really enjoying reading it!

 

How long have you been working in IT?

Since about 1996 - I say "about" because I never chose IT as a job, it kind of chose me. The company I worked for was getting a new accounting package installed and everything kind of ground to a halt while they tried to get to grips with it. I was the one that figured it out, started getting it working and everything else went from there!

 

Is this your first, second, third, etc career?

Before IT, I was working in Customer Services processing customers orders and answering phone calls. I like to think the two are a good combination as it's made me a lot more people-focussed in my IT solutions.

 

What other jobs / roles have you done previously?

Well .... checkout operator, nanny and warehouse packer! It was an interesting career path as I chose not to go to university straight after A levels. Though I went back and did a degree part-time with the Open University and got a first-class honours degree in IT & Computing while I worked full-time.

 

How many interviews did it take to get your first job in IT?

None. It was more a case of the company seeing that I seemed to click with IT stuff, push more of it my way and then support me by paying for my degree fees. Since I left them, I have pretty much always landed jobs I applied for, apart from one where I was too technically qualified!

 

Have you ever felt that being female is a help or a hindrance to gaining a job in IT?

I don't think it's a hindrance to getting a job. I beat five (or more?) male applicants to get a job in a Uni as part of the IT support team. I think people take you at face value and employ you for your skills, not your gender. What I do find hard is when you talk to people on the phone - they tend to think that if you're female and don't know something, you are obviously not the IT Technician!

 

If you were considering IT (or other engineering / programming careers) whilst at school what support did you receive?

This was never something I considered at school. I did A-levels in English, French, German and Music so this was quite a career change! Now I work in schools, I look for opportunities to point out to girls that we can fix stuff and work with computers too. My pink tool case tends to go down well!

 

Feel free to quote me if it's of any use.

Edited February 22, 2013 by kaphc

[witch]

I have a pink screwdriver and a zebra-striped one with feathers!

 

I don't believe in positive discrimination either but alongside somehow convincing girls that technical careers are a great idea, and boys that they can be nursery nurses,or whatever,we have also got to re-educate some employers as they can be blind to the "best person for the job" thing and look only at the gender that they expect to see in that job.

It is very interesting that quite a few of the women who have answered so far actually started in some sort of school support role rather than IT. Only a few have been technically trained.

[Roberto]

I have to admit to having heated arguments with folk in RL about believing in meritocracy, and some of the fiercest ones have been with those striving for equal status for females ... who have actually been pushing for positive discrimination against males to allow more females into key roles ... I can understand why something needs to be done to force the change of status quo, but is this really the right way?

 

I've always been against positive discrimination of any kind. I think that a longer term view of why inequalities (of any kind) might occur and how they could be addressed should be used rather than trying to stack the deck once its too late.

[kaphc]

I'm against positive discrimination too. I would be mortified if I got a job just to fill a "quota" rather than being the best person for the job.

@witch - where do you get zebra-striped screwdrivers with feathers on from? They sound brill!

[AMLinington]

I'm against positive discrimination too. I would be mortified if I got a job just to fill a "quota" rather than being the best person for the job.

@witch - where do you get zebra-striped screwdrivers with feathers on from? They sound brill!

 

PINTEREST ALL THE THINGS!

[Little-Miss]

See, i like this. This pleases me...

 

Recently a group called Little Miss Geek appeared (still think i should receive royalties) discussing Women in the tech/science world and released a book, which i've yet to read but flicking through there has been a few interesting bits, like a childs drawing of someone that works in IT!

 

I follow them on Twitter but have started to get very annoyed and slightly offended. They seem to have a thing about "Pink gadgets". Constantly berating any manufacturer or company that dares to use it in a add or a product. Saying that companies just "pink up" their older products and sell them to us poor females. Erm, i'm pretty sure anyone that can read would be able to compare the hardware themselves and make a decision. Even if it means nothing to someone you can see that one has this but the other has this.

 

You know what? I quite like having something a bit different from the classic grey or black thanks ladies...

 

I'm all for a bit of feminism but yeesh, no wonder a lot of young girls think its all about bra burning and not shaving....

Edited February 22, 2013 by Little-Miss

[witch]

Someone gave me a set of screwdrivers in girly colours - but they are proper bits of kit and very easy to spot when you put one down somewhere.

I think it is probably a good thing that you can get colourful tech kit now as they wouldnt bother to make it unless there were enough girls around who want to buy it, would they?

If anyone sees a rainbow screwdriver please let me know

As for the zebra screwdriver: Safari Animal Print Screwdriver by Pretty Tools is perfect for all the jobs around the house.

[elsiegee40]

I agree that 'pretty' tools are easier to spot. They also don't land up in the site manager's pocket

[AMLinington]

Pastel Pink Nintendo 3DS. Nuff said.

 

Hell, you can always get a can of spray paint and take that Chassis out into the garden and pink-bomb the ever-living-maleness out of it. Personally I am so hard on my hardware it doesn't last long enough to be painted. XD

[korova_blue]

How long have you been working in IT?14 years

Is this your first, second, third, etc career? second career

What other jobs / roles have you done previously? I was previously working in materials science. My first job out of university (studied Material Science and Engineering at Uni) was testing building materials, then I worked in a factory/foundry and was involved in research, testing and quality control of magnetic alloys. Alongside my work in the materials testing, I became more and more involved in developing/troubleshooting the company's IT systems. When I relocated to Scotland I retrained in IT on a course designed to help people change career. I then managed to get a job in IT at a Scottish university first working on the helpdesk, then as a senior IT officer, having completed my MCSE, A+ etc

How many interviews did it take to get your first job in IT? 1 (for the helpdesk role)

Have you ever felt that being female is a help or a hindrance to gaining a job in IT? Coming back to my previous full-time job (in a University, not a school) from maternity leave was hard- felt that I had to prove myself all over again and had to endure a certain amount of bullying from colleagues who had expected me not to come back and were ready to jump into my place. Have felt it a hindrance in that it is difficult to juggle a family and an IT job - have been for interviews before where it was obvious I wasn't going to even be considered for the job because they knew I could only work within the opening hours of my son's nursery and therefore wouldn't be able to work overtime. I am currently working part-time in a school because it is the best solution for keeping IT skills current (sort of!!) and having working hours that fit around childcare/school holidays. I wouldn't even consider anything full time at the moment as I know in IT there is an expectation for out of hours overtime that I just wouldn't be able to do whilst my son is still young.

If you were considering IT (or other engineering / programming careers) whilst at school what support did you receive? I'm a bit long in the tooth to have been considering IT when I was at school, but I wanted to do an engineering degree and was encouraged in this by my teachers at sixth form college.

[AMLinington]

Have you ever felt that being female is a help or a hindrance to gaining a job in IT? Coming back to my previous full-time job (in a University, not a school) from maternity leave was hard- felt that I had to prove myself all over again and had to endure a certain amount of bullying from colleagues who had expected me not to come back and were ready to jump into my place. Have felt it a hindrance in that it is difficult to juggle a family and an IT job - have been for interviews before where it was obvious I wasn't going to even be considered for the job because they knew I could only work within the opening hours of my son's nursery and therefore wouldn't be able to work overtime. I am currently working part-time in a school because it is the best solution for keeping IT skills current (sort of!!) and having working hours that fit around childcare/school holidays. I wouldn't even consider anything full time at the moment as I know in IT there is an expectation for out of hours overtime that I just wouldn't be able to do whilst my son is still young.

 

I'm not sure that this is specific to IT or epidemic across the whole job market! It seems to me that ANY job where the 'standard' hours are between 8 and 6 will prejudice against working mothers, yet familes cannot live on 1 salary any more and will struggle with 1 full and 1 part time salary. There are so few highly paid, skilled jobs that have the flexibility to accommodate working mothers - most jobs that are suitable for working mothers are retail jobs in shops which we all know pay poorly or jobs in schools as TSAs - any role that needs longer hours is precluded. It's so frustrating for people my age that want to have a family but cannot afford to lose 1 full time salary. I think when it is my turn my child care will be a combination of nursery and grandparents - it's the only way we could afford it. I don't think it's fair that people should be 'priced out' of being able to have children.

[X-13]

Pastel Pink Nintendo 3DS. Nuff said.

 

Legend of Zelda "limited edition" 3DS > everything.

 

Though the Charizard/Pikachu 3DSXL is acceptable.

 

 

And pink tools are awesome. I'd totally use pink tools.

[witch]

I'm not sure that this is specific to IT or epidemic across the whole job market! It seems to me that ANY job where the 'standard' hours are between 8 and 6 will prejudice against working mothers, yet familes cannot live on 1 salary any more and will struggle with 1 full and 1 part time salary. There are so few highly paid, skilled jobs that have the flexibility to accommodate working mothers - most jobs that are suitable for working mothers are retail jobs in shops which we all know pay poorly or jobs in schools as TSAs - any role that needs longer hours is precluded. It's so frustrating for people my age that want to have a family but cannot afford to lose 1 full time salary. I think when it is my turn my child care will be a combination of nursery and grandparents - it's the only way we could afford it. I don't think it's fair that people should be 'priced out' of being able to have children.

 

The issue is that it is the mother who is expected to work around the children and not the father. Paternity leave has helped, but we need to move to a system whereby, once the child is beyond issues needing the mother only, such as breastfeeding, both parents are equally likely to need flexible working hours to cover childcare issues.

I was lucky, we could afford for me to stay at home until our youngest was in school, and then work part-time so I was always there after school etc. With three, we could never have afforded the childcare anyway. But mrwITch would have happily worked part-time or flexi - 4 long days perhaps - so that we could work it out between us and I could go back to a "proper" job. It was never on the cards though, and sadly, 15+ years later, it still isn't the norm

I wasn't able to keep my career and whilst I love my job now, the salary I am on isn't a huge amount of help to us and I certainly can't run the household on my own. Even if I went full-time and got out of education, the salaries around here are pretty poor.

[frogwoman]

How long have you been working in IT? –25+ years

Is this your first, second, third, etc career? Only

What other jobs / roles have you done previously? None, always worked in IT, I’ve done many IT roles.

How many interviews did it take to get your first job in IT? One

Have you ever felt that being female is a help or a hindrance to gaining a job in IT? I know I got my industrial placement based on gender. I then had to prove myself in engineering department. I got taken on full-time at the end of my Poly course, based on merit. Maintaining a Career in IT has been more tricky. I have either been office based working standby and call-out. Or traveling around the country working on projects based on Customer sites, neither of which are child friendly. My partner and I had to make a conscious decision about which one would work and which one would be the “house-person” So here I am 2 children later working in a school, term-time only stopping the brain cells dying (sometimes!).

If you were considering IT (or other engineering / programming careers) whilst at school what support did you receive? None we didn’t do computing at school. I opted to do this at college as it was the “new in thing”.

[ButterflyMoon]

How long have you been working in IT?

Since 86

 

Is this your first, second, third, etc career?

This is my second IT post. First one was SPIN Co Ordinator in the Scottish Prison Service managing the network in my jail.

 

What other jobs / roles have you done previously?

Been in Reprographics, Freelance Photographer

 

How many interviews did it take to get your first job in IT?

Only one interview and got the job.

 

Have you ever felt that being female is a help or a hindrance to gaining a job in IT?

I don't think it has had any bearing really just depends on the skills etc of the other people who attended interviews for the same post.

 

If you were considering IT (or other engineering / programming careers) whilst at school what support did you receive?

Hahaha there were NO computers when I was at school. You are talking to someone who used nib pens and inkwells at school. So I suppose the answer to that question is none.

[korova_blue]

I'm not sure that this is specific to IT or epidemic across the whole job market! It seems to me that ANY job where the 'standard' hours are between 8 and 6 will prejudice against working mothers, yet familes cannot live on 1 salary any more and will struggle with 1 full and 1 part time salary. There are so few highly paid, skilled jobs that have the flexibility to accommodate working mothers - most jobs that are suitable for working mothers are retail jobs in shops which we all know pay poorly or jobs in schools as TSAs - any role that needs longer hours is precluded. It's so frustrating for people my age that want to have a family but cannot afford to lose 1 full time salary. I think when it is my turn my child care will be a combination of nursery and grandparents - it's the only way we could afford it. I don't think it's fair that people should be 'priced out' of being able to have children.

 

Whilst my son was at nursery it wasn't too bad at least it was a full working day and operated throughout the school holidays. - But since he's been at school it has been harder and I've had to find a job with less hours and term-time only. My husband's job (full time, with overtime expected at a drop of a hat) is an hours' commute away by rail so all the parent 'evenings' (last appointment 6pm??), sports days, assemblies etc have to be attended only by me, if I can make it. I haven't been able to go to some assemblies as they fall within my working hours (8:15 to 1:15). Apparently (according to my disappointed son) he was the only one with a parent not there, so I'd love to know what flexible jobs everybody else has!! With INSET days, 13 weeks holidays, snow days, sick days and no grandparents nearby to call on it is a juggling act.

[elsiegee40]

-It is striking from reading this thread that most of those replying are "my age"... more mature females

 

Are the younger generation mostly working in industry or have they decided not to respond/reply to @GrumbleDook by PM?

Edited February 25, 2013 by elsiegee40