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Network and Classroom Management Thread, FAO: Schools in Peterborough using 'safecom' with DANWOOD in Technical; Good morning gents I now have quite extensive information that may help you to make wise decisions regarding Danwood. Having ...
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    Be very careful

    Good morning gents

    I now have quite extensive information that may help you to make wise decisions regarding Danwood.

    Having recently spoken to a number of Danwood employees and had sight of their contracts. I suggest that their contracts are not to be taken lightly. There are number of clauses that make my hair curl!

    For the first year you get IT support included, thereafter they charge you 75 per quarter per unit, just because it can potentially print or scan. This is really annoying as there really is no benefit to us at all. Service and parts support is already paid for in the per page cost!

    Watch out for how many years you get parts included for, even if your contract says "parts included" that is only for ONE Year, then you get the bills as the machine actually starts to need parts! They can increase their cost per page by only a modest 10% but if they can prove that their costs have gone up, there is NO LIMIT to the increase or how often! There are many additional provisions that the salesman can add to alleviate some of these problems.

    The problem I have is unless you have a highly ethical salesman, and yes they do exist, and he knows all the antidotes to the contract, I am afraid that you are stuffed! The Danwood service & or evergreen contract is very good....for Danwood.

    I would personally advise avoiding it and getting a standard lease and separate service contract from another OGC supplier. It may appear that you are paying slightly more initially but you will definitely save more than money in the long run!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiDeR View Post
    ok, where do I start.

    BE VERY CAREFULL WITH DANWOOD. In the beginning they good, then comes the rising quarterly bills & they insist they still saving you money.

    Check your contract through. Make sure its an OGC contract, then your protected. If your on their EVERGREEN contract your screwed. Thats a never ending contract that you sign every quarter that resets your time limit on the contract...so it becomes a never enjding contract.

    I can give you so much more details etc... Just ask...

    In a sense, id say stay away if you can, but sounds like you already signed up!!
    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Years ago I used to have a Danwood setup at the local college and they were ok but they were just never quite as good as they could have been. They moved from them and it was the best move ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Printerman View Post
    Good morning gents

    I now have quite extensive information that may help you to make wise decisions regarding Danwood.

    Having recently spoken to a number of Danwood employees and had sight of their contracts. I suggest that their contracts are not to be taken lightly. There are number of clauses that make my hair curl!

    For the first year you get IT support included, thereafter they charge you 75 per quarter per unit, just because it can potentially print or scan. This is really annoying as there really is no benefit to us at all. Service and parts support is already paid for in the per page cost!

    Watch out for how many years you get parts included for, even if your contract says "parts included" that is only for ONE Year, then you get the bills as the machine actually starts to need parts! They can increase their cost per page by only a modest 10% but if they can prove that their costs have gone up, there is NO LIMIT to the increase or how often! There are many additional provisions that the salesman can add to alleviate some of these problems.

    The problem I have is unless you have a highly ethical salesman, and yes they do exist, and he knows all the antidotes to the contract, I am afraid that you are stuffed! The Danwood service & or evergreen contract is very good....for Danwood.

    I would personally advise avoiding it and getting a standard lease and separate service contract from another OGC supplier. It may appear that you are paying slightly more initially but you will definitely save more than money in the long run!
    I can't help but disagree with all of these comments, we have been with Danwood for two years now and had nothing but exceptional service from them.

    I've got a 4 hour callout on all our printers 4X big Konica's, 4x Sharp Photocopiers and around 40 x Desk Printers.

    Maybe it was your salesman, if you want i'll put you in touch with our salesman and you'll change your minds


    Dan

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    danwood

    Quote Originally Posted by sLiDeR View Post
    ok, where do I start.

    BE VERY CAREFULL WITH DANWOOD. In the beginning they good, then comes the rising quarterly bills & they insist they still saving you money.

    Check your contract through. Make sure its an OGC contract, then your protected. If your on their EVERGREEN contract your screwed. Thats a never ending contract that you sign every quarter that resets your time limit on the contract...so it becomes a never enjding contract.

    I can give you so much more details etc... Just ask...

    In a sense, id say stay away if you can, but sounds like you already signed up!!

    Has anyone been able to get out of a Damwood service/lease agreement?

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    Cool Their service is not too bad

    Hi Dan

    I didn't say their service was particularly bad, I just said watch out for their contracts!

    Another concern I do have though is that even though the engineers are good, the poor guys have to carry parts for a range of manufacturers kit. They may have parts for HP as well as Sharp, Konica Minolta, Canon, Panasonic, Samsung and goodness knows what else. With the best engineer in the world, his chance of having the right part for your machine is severely reduced isn't it?

    Also how can he build solid experience in every product? One engineer that visited a friend's site to service his kit seemed very good, but on chatting to him, he seemed frustrated with trying to be a "jack of all trades" (not his words, mine).

    Just some ideas that may help. Even though I like the concept and some of the engineers, I will be considering other suppliers in 3 months when our own contract comes up for review. I want as close to zero hassle from my supplier as possible!

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    REPLY FROM DANWOOD, DIRECTOR OF GROUP FINANCE

    Ladies and Gentlemen, I have read with interest the replies to Ben Stanton regarding the use of Safecom with Danwood and was concerned to learn of the problems that have been aired with regard to various types of contract that are in use. For the avoidance of doubt I would like to clarify the situation to allay members' fears. Danwood use a variety of different contracts through Danwood Group Finance.
    1. Rental - the rental contract for schools normally goes through the OGC contract, is completely transparent, service is charged separately, again on OGC pricing, it is easy to register with OGC and benchmark all the manufacturers, suppliers, products and pricing.
    2. Total volume plan - this contract combines the rental and service cost and by adding the two quarterly amounts together and dividing by the volume, creates a cost per page. The advantage of this contract is that the volume dictates the payment made each quarter, and if the machine is over-used, the contract will end early, with no financial liability to the school.
    3. Evergreen - this is a complicated contract and was designed in essence as a large, revolving corporate credit card. The fixed payment kicks in when the technology refresh period has been completed and pays down the capital outstanding. At any time during the fixed period, the contract can be opened up to allow new equipment to flow into the contract, either additional machines or machine changes. The contract is designed to keep payments within a budget that the school is comfortable with. Because the Evergreen contract is complicated, the decision was made two years ago to withdraw it from the market place for schools

    I note that there are queries over the terms of the Evergeen contract and would be pleased to supply any of the members who have the contract, with terms and conditions relating to their contract and to visit them and explain to them in detail so that they understand the contract and can either use it to their benefit or change to a fixed rental plus service should they wish to do so.

    My contact details are as follows:
    Gary Elms, Director of Danwood Group Finance
    gary. elms @danwood.co.uk (01522 8344565)

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    Too Complicated?????

    Does that mean the Educational Sector are too stupid to understand Evergreen Contracts? The Director of Danwood seems to have his own foot in his mouth.!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RachealT View Post
    Does that mean the Educational Sector are too stupid to understand Evergreen Contracts? The Director of Danwood seems to have his own foot in his mouth.!!
    No, it sounds to me like its a complicated contract and he's offering to help anyone who needs a little help.

    How many people working in the Education Sector are contract lawyers in their spare time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
    No, it sounds to me like its a complicated contract and he's offering to help anyone who needs a little help.

    How many people working in the Education Sector are contract lawyers in their spare time?
    This is one of the downsides of moving budget control to individual schools - you don't have a legal team on hand. I suspect that even when LEAs totally managed school budgets there were still contracts signed that were unfair.

    Of course, in an ideal world, contracts would be nice and simple and you wouldn't need a lawyer to go through it all. Sadly, the world isn't ideal.

    Incidentally, just on a technical note, you don't have to type in user ID/password on safecom devices. If your users have pretty much any kind of ID card then you can just use that (the HP devices will work with readers for MiFare smart cards or magnetic stripes)

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    From Gary Elms, Director of Risk

    James B is correct. THis is a genuine offer of help to anyone who needs it and to help resolve any outstanding issues.

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    Danwood

    Just looking through this forum, and I am looking at replacing all the printers/copiers at the 6 site offices my company has. We currently have an Evergreen contract with Danwood and all i can say is we have SHAFTED royally!!! I don't know how their salesman sleep at night they are absolute rip off merchants - anyone thinking of using them....DO NOT thats all the advice I can give find another company

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    this might be a long story so get a cuppa

    opened in 2007 sept
    we have a fleet of 119 hp printers from 2015, 2600, 3005, 4700 4730 4345 machines

    all students and staff have a ID card with contactless and mag swipe

    plus 7 photo copiers

    at the start we didnt have any printer controls for this fleet if the staff or student printed it was, no limits or restrictions.

    this had to change and i took the measure to install print manager plus on the system as this worked with citrix.

    we do try only to use hp toners as they give best output quality, least number of faulty toners.

    think in the first year we spent somewhere about 80k+ on toner and about 1m ish pages printed give or take.

    the print manager plus did reduce the cost of the printing, by limiting the amount of output of students and how much waste was made ( double jobs and over 10 pages) for a very small outlay in yearly cost of the software.

    the next thing which change our cost base was the school signing up to the CPC. look it up, it is a intresting idea and works very well. our costs are now down to about 50k a year but the amount of work out of the machine is higher and a good 90% is handed in or used and not waste.

    we have looked at smart card push/pull options but the costs of between 10 to 15k for the total fit have stopped this for now untill the hardware needs replacing.

    if you have any questions about any of this drop me a email andrew.baldock@thomasdeaconacademy.com

    we have also looked at the option of using our photocopiers as printers but with the situation changing weekly on the cost per page on both HP toner and contract photocopiers i will wait on saying which is best, but read the small print.

    edit: we have also had a quote from safecom via ebm for our existing fleet. so you dont allways have to get the software from just one place if you like it - much like ringdale

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    Hi

    Great to hear that you have got out of your Evergreen lease, did you have to stay with Danwoods for the new five year deal?

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    Inquiry

    Hi Slider,

    I am interested in speaking with you about the Danwood contract. Just shoot me a quick email and I will get in touch.

    For that matter, if any of the readers have a spare minute to speak about their arrangement (particularly ones you are not happy with), please feel free to get in touch and we can organise a time to speak.

    Cheers,

    D

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    hi,

    anyone that needs advise on danewood contracts or just any print issues please conatct me ASAP

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    Danwood Evergreen Contract - Copy Please

    Quote Originally Posted by KARL1 View Post
    hi,

    anyone that needs advise on danewood contracts or just any print issues please conatct me ASAP
    I do need some help please. Can someone please email me a copy of the Danwood contract? May I also get in touch for some advice too - please advise if you are happy to do this.

    Please send copy to greatglen[at]gmail.com

    Many thanks

    David

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