Learning Platform for Northamptonshire Schools

[GrumbleDook]

This is a call out to NMs and techies in schools in Northamptonshire.

 

Some of you I may have already spoken with (and I'll be sending a bulk email later) but this it to give you and your school additional notice of the following.

 

Northamptonshire County Council(NCC) Managed Learning Environment feasibility and implementation project 1st September 2007 - 31st March 2009.

 

Schools and stakeholder presentation event - Thursday 21st June 2007

Learning Discovery Centre

 

A full agenda is available on request (and will be in the NCC schools fact sheet at the end of the week) but refreshments on arrival at 8.45 followed by a briefing / introduction from 9.00 - 9.20 by Brenda Scoble and Kevin McHenry.

 

The 3 shortlisted companies (from a long list of 11) are Teksys, Research Machines and LP+.

 

The procurement has been done through the OJEU European Communities - Services - Accelerated restricted procedure. There was not a Becta Framework that we could use to secure the technology we wanted and others could not be used as this project did not fit into the required criteria.

 

The event will finish at 13.00

 

Schools wishing to attend should email [email protected] to book a place.

 

The presentations will be 30 mins long with 15 mins for questions. There will be 40 mins at the end of the event for school and stakeholders to score and give feedback, to inform the final selection process.

 

We do want to try and get as many schools represented as possible and as wide a range of schools too (primary, secondary, special, etc).

[GrumbleDook]

I'd just like to thanks those who were able to attend the above session or who were able to speak with me about it beforehand. I would also like to thank those members who completed the MLE survey for me many moons ago.

 

A final decision has been made and below is the copy which will be put into the NCC Schools Fact Sheet at the end of the week.

 

A learning platform for every school.

 

NCC is pleased to announce that LP+ (Learning Possibilities Limited) have been selected as preferred bidder to deliver our county wide bespoke learning platform solution. The company has significant experience in creating LP+, acknowledged by Microsoft to be the largest and most advanced hosted Learning Gateway platform anywhere. They are committed to provide a hosted and fully managed portal-based modern learning platform for every school in the county, which is scalable for the e-learning, communication and information management needs of schools and the local authority, now and into the future.

 

LP+ was selected following a rigorous procurement process. This included meeting minimum requirements through a prequalification questionnaire, responding to technical and functional requirements, pricing, and presenting at the schools event on 21st June. Overall LP+ scored the highest and provided the most exciting approach, the vision for extending and enhancing learning, and commitment to working in partnership with Northamptonshire’s schools to contribute to personalising learning.

 

Once the 10 day standstill period has been completed and contract negotiations are under way, more information will be shared with schools including further details about implementation and support.

 

More information can be found on their website http://www.lpplus.com/.

[webman]

Due to political reasons and possible legal action, I have withdrawn my opinions regarding the DLG.

[saundersmatt]

Microsoft.. Sharepoint.. 100 clients per school x 6 lessons per day x 200 schools => hosted solution. I personally don't have faith in this method of delivery. Hopefully the broadband provision is up to scratch?

 

Indeed Webman, I have experience of a county-wide VLE implementation and as you correctly envisage it is slower than toast. That's not taking into account the overloaded and constantly spewing errors of the county wan's content filters (which incidentally don't block a lot that they should).

 

My gosh i'm in a ranting mood tonight. I'm going to have a pint.

 

Matt.

[Geoff]

I'd just like to thanks those who were able to attend the above session or who were able to speak with me about it beforehand. I would also like to thank those members who completed the MLE survey for me many moons ago.

 

I don't mean to be a pain, but it occurs to me that other's outside the area could learn from this situation. Ideally, would it be possible to write up some kind of case study or white paper about the situation that has just transpired?

[john]

Enjoy your MS based VLE, I enjoy the Sharepoint and Learning Kit I have made

[GrumbleDook]

I'd just like to thanks those who were able to attend the above session or who were able to speak with me about it beforehand. I would also like to thank those members who completed the MLE survey for me many moons ago.

 

I don't mean to be a pain, but it occurs to me that other's outside the area could learn from this situation. Ideally, would it be possible to write up some kind of case study or white paper about the situation that has just transpired?

 

Hopefully that is one of the things that will be happening. We will be getting started on the implementation planning in the next week or so ... and even if I can't get a blog running I will get an NM or Techie, as well as a teacher, from a school involved in the first wave to do one ...

[torledo]

Very interesting news on the lp+ homepage about the partnership with Shirelands.

 

Shirelands was one of the more successful MS Learning Gateway implementation that I was familiar with. Wonder what the reasoning behind transferring hosting over to LP+ was ?. Wonder if that's code for a merger of some sort - as I know the shireland gateway was beginning to or had been run as a commercial concern.

[StArbiter]

not exactly hot news as we knew of this back in July - interesting to see how they might roll out lp+ out to schools and lAs who insist on becta framework accreditation ?

[danIT]

Whats wrong with Moodle?

[webman]

Nothing.

 

According to Becta, Moodle solutions are technically up to the job (they tick ALL boxes) but there is no support. Despite the many companies you can purchase Moodle support from, this fact was omitted from Becta's research and therefore Becta's framework excludes Moodle.

 

I believe "Microsoft financial incentives" play a large part in the decision making process.

[torledo]

Whats wrong with Moodle?

 

Err, what's wrong with the Learning Gateway. It may not be everyones cup of tea but I bet the LP+ platform beats the pants off of any moodle implementation you can point to. That superiority comes at a cost but those who've made the investment believe its a cost worth paying.

[Geoff]

Could of fooled me, BECTA has operated in a very anti-Microsoft/Pro OSS fashion (even to the point of zealotry) in some cases.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4558171.stm

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/19/becta_reports_ms_schools_deal/

 

but then

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/07/becta_ms_deal/

 

So I've just dismissed this behaviour as the schizophrenia you get in any large public body with competing departments with contradictory aims and goals.

[torledo]

Could of fooled me, BECTA has operated in a very anti-Microsoft/Pro OSS fashion (even to the point of zealotry) in some cases.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4558171.stm

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/19/becta_reports_ms_schools_deal/

 

but then

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/07/becta_ms_deal/

 

So I've just dismissed this behaviour as the schizophrenia you get in any large public body with competing departments with contradictory aims and goals.

 

Interesting. A lot of the push towards open source software and open source projects doesn't take account of actual TCO.

 

Why wouldn't a school or org with in-house .NET knowledge or with an existing sharepoint implementation extend that to use MS learning Gateway technologies to implement their VLE/Learning platform.

 

It really isn't a Microsoft vs Moodle or proprietory vs OSS debate. It's about choosing the right products for your situation and for your budget. Not every school has peanuts to spend on VLE projects. So when an LA or school goes with Microsoft for a project there's generally a good reason.

 

After all Sharepoint is the fastest growing portal/content management product in industry. It really has shaken up that sector once the domain of IBM and it's websphere product. What's wrong with sharepoint being adapted to shake up the VLE/Learning Platform space. It really needs it.

[webman]

Just because a school or LEA has funds for Microsoft, doesn't mean they have to go Microsoft when it may or may not be the best product.

[russdev]

I will share a comment I was talking about sharepoint with Microsoft other day and comment to me was sharepoint is good product but sharepoint works really well when you get third party who adds on that education element to it ands build on it.

 

Also in my view, moodle is good vle it is not at moment a learning platform. Hence why you can get moodle webparts for sharepoint as that is good basis for learning platform.

 

Russell

[webman]

But you can link Moodle (if you so desire) with other non-Microsoft products to get something to satisfy the "platform" buzzword.

[russdev]

Nothing.

 

According to Becta, Moodle solutions are technically up to the job (they tick ALL boxes) but there is no support. Despite the many companies you can purchase Moodle support from, this fact was omitted from Becta's research and therefore Becta's framework excludes Moodle.

 

I believe "Microsoft financial incentives" play a large part in the decision making process.

 

By the way framework means companies solutions are approved littler secret you can by moodle support/hosting via RM and one it's partners.

 

Russell

[GrumbleDook]

The whole thing about the framework is that it rubber stamps companies rather that technologies.

 

Theoretically you can get any of the companies to provide what you want, whether it is Moodle or MS LG.

 

Whether they will provide it or not is another story.

 

As for the Northants procurement, the companies on the framework were looked at and could not provide a solution that was cross-phase as well as dealing with special schools too. That is why companies were looked at that could provide a solution based around MSLG as a flexible start.

 

LP+ and Shirelands Language College are partnered to provide both the platform as well as content.

 

The big problem with any platform is usable content. That is why companies like Talmos do deals with Brittanica.

 

Yes, there are lots of Moodle courses out there but trying to get them logged and shared is difficult, even the work that Dagza did in e-subjects.co.uk is not enough (but a good start).

 

This is why North West Grid for Learning have offered to host and run the National Digital Resource Bank.

 

Lots of LAs are signing up to this and hopefully individual schools will do so too.

 

This is the sort of community based sharing that we all know works well and should be supported as much as possible.

[zag]

I will share a comment I was talking about sharepoint with Microsoft other day and comment to me was sharepoint is good product but sharepoint works really well when you get third party who adds on that education element to it ands build on it.

 

Don't agree at all, we use sharepoint in our school as a VLE and its great even without any modifications.

 

I feel sorry for anyone with a "managed" VLE solution, its one of those decisions that seems to be made by non techy people at councils rather than the people who actually use the system.

[Fedaykin]

Don't agree at all, we use sharepoint in our school as a VLE and its great even without any modifications.

 

I feel sorry for anyone with a "managed" VLE solution, its one of those decisions that seems to be made by non techy people at councils rather than the people who actually use the system.

 

The people who use the VLE in the end are teachers and students! Something that tends to be forgotten by school techie types.

 

For most schools a managed VLE is the best solution as it's something off the shelf and the school techie doesn't end up being the gate keeper.

 

What a school techie wants is a black box he can shove in a corner that only he knows how to maintain hence protecting his job for the next ten years!

 

Whilst ICT admins have an important part to play in schools and do need to be part of the loop in the VLE decision making process they do not have the required knowledge of education needs to drive the decision making process. A VLE should not be seen as a piece of software which is installed and then maintained, over the years! We have had all sorts of software installed on school computers that are never used. A VLE forms a part the day to day runnning of the school, fortunately senior leadership teams are realising this now inside schools and taking part in the process. When you have the SLT on side then the change process can be rolled through the school, when its handed off to the school techie then a box gets installed and nothing happens.

 

I feel sorry for anyone who has an unmanaged solution.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Fedaykin

[CyberNerd]

@Fedaykin

I think you misunderstood the thread - many of the managed solution are not up to the job, and do not have the features that teachers need for collaboration.

Its nothing to do with techies keeping their jobs It's about integrating a usable solution into the school rather than a solitary blackbox like the managed service appliances. There is infinitely more possibilities if it's run in-house, its just more flexible. SMT should definately be onboard with VLE's, but they should know the facts, not just what the LA salesman said.

[Fedaykin]

@Fedaykin

I think you misunderstood the thread - many of the managed solution are not up to the job, and do not have the features that teachers need for collaboration.

Its nothing to do with techies keeping their jobs It's about integrating a usable solution into the school rather than a solitary blackbox like the managed service appliances. There is infinitely more possibilities if it's run in-house, its just more flexible. SMT should definately be onboard with VLE's, but they should know the facts, not just what the LA salesman said.

 

No...I'm talking about the benefits of hosted/managed solutions over locally hosted solutions (Moodle etc...)

 

The major managed solutions are up to the job and far more so than something thrown together in house by the school techie. Have you actually been to a school which uses a managed solution? Before you state that they are not up for the job I suggest you go to some of the schools which have made good use of a managed solution.

 

The LA when it goes through the process of choosing a preffered solution for the area it is concerned with service targets, educational needs and the ability to deliver collaboration across the LA.

 

Hosted solutions are the way forward as is clearly being shown by the market trends at the moment. I don't think the school techie has the education skills to know what a teacher or student needs.

 

On the other hand the leading VLE suppliers employ some of the top educationalists in the UK at the moment ( I know I've met them). The top VLE's are not some sort of evil empire (certainly the VLE I personally deal with are a great group of people). Contact companies like Fronter or Uniservity, I think you will be surprised about how knowledgable their educationalists are about the needs of schools with this kind of technology.

 

I also feel it's very much techies keeping their jobs and protecting their little empire. I have seen schools with locally hosted solutions which have either gone nowhere or ground to a halt when the person who looks after it leaves.

[steve]

Over the last 12 months I've been helping our LA choose a managed system for our schools to choose to opt-in if they so chose.

 

I agree that a managed solution for a large number of schools is the preferred route, as many primaries and some secondaries don't have the expertise in house.

 

However I don't agree with:

 

The major managed solutions are up to the job and far more so than something thrown together in house by the school techie.

 

Having looked at all 10 approved learning platforms and some others I can't agree with that.

 

......I don't think the school techie has the education skills to know what a teacher or student needs.

 

Pretty much all techies I have met have been students at some point in their life.

 

Personnal having spent over 7 years working in education I believe I have education skill needed to understand the needs of teachers too (if the teachers actually know what the need themselves)

 

On the other hand the leading VLE suppliers employ some of the top educationalists in the UK at the moment

 

Having met many of these "top educationalists" over the last few years, I don't share your opinion of them.

 

I also feel it's very much techies keeping their jobs and protecting their little empire. I have seen schools with locally hosted solutions which have either gone nowhere or ground to a halt when the person who looks after it leaves.

 

I've seen lots of managed systems never being used or abandoned after teaching staff who have driven the use it have left too.

 

Its easy to make these wide sweeping remarks, but bare in mind there is good and bad to be found in both approaches.

[CyberNerd]

The major managed solutions are up to the job and far more so than something thrown together in house by the school techie

 

A Moodle/SIMS/Drupal/Elgg/Mediawiki/Active Directory/Email system can be pretty featuresome and pretty simple to implement. I've yet to see a VLE that integrates this well or one that has the developer base that some of these projects have.

 

I appreciate the LA's must show that they are meeting government targets wrt eportfolios/vle's and I don't have any problem with hosted solutions per se, just in the way they are implemented. The 'when the technician leaves' argument is frequently used as a sales tactic, but it falls flat on its face if a school hires someone who has responsibility to look after a bespoke system.

 

also feel it's very much techies keeping their jobs and protecting their little empire.

The argument goes both ways, VLE companies have empires too - but they have less contact with the staff and the students, and money to make.