D-Day approaches, wish me luck :-(

[Halfmad]

Well tomorrow (Friday1st) I should be finding out what my pay will be under the single status agreement. There's a few things that worry me:

 

1. the person they spoke to as part of the evaluation had very little knowledge, experience and far less duties and responsibilities compared to the other 9 Network managers in the county. Essentially he's the worst person they could have picked and the lowest paid by quite a bit (rightfully too).

 

2. The council have as yet never sent me a contract that had the correct wage on it, 4 attempts over 15 months that I've refused to sign. Legally i'm fine as I have moved internally, technically I'm still covered under my previous contract. I can see them, however evaluating me under one of their 4 mysterious wages - all of them at least 5 grand less than I actually get.

 

3. They say they spoke to 1 in 5 employees. Yet there's 10 network managers, they only spoke to one and they spoke to nobody at all at any of the 8 high schools I've asked (there are only 11 high schools). I'm really annoyed as I LOVE my job and had just compliled a huge list of work to do over the holidays. I've just got engaged and we'll be looking to get a large house and get married in 2009 which means a LOT of saving up. Effectively if they do freeze it and I face a large cut they'll end up losing me even though I want to stay.

 

I've worked so hard over the past 14 months since starting there that I'll be gutted to leave all that hard work for someone else to come into and claim credit for in our review later this year. grr!

 

It'll be interesting to say the least when I get my interview and my payment letter tomorrow from the head teacher. I've been asking around for suggestions of things to do if I get a pay freeze/cut. there include:

 

1. Stand up and as I slowly unzip my fly say "this is going to hurt you far more than it'll hurt me."

 

2. Hand over a brown envelope and say "I'm really sorry." then walk out. Of course it's an empty envelope..

 

3. Put my bottom lip out and sulk, whenever anyone tries to comfort me "go limp" like a child does.

 

4. Stand up, walk out but before I close the door mutter under my breath "I'll be back."

 

5. Smile happily, say I enjoyed the joke and ask for the correct letter.

[pooley]

Well tomorrow (Friday1st) I should be finding out what my pay will be under the single status agreement. There's a few things that worry me

 

1. the person they spoke to as part of the evaluation had very little knowledge, experience and far less duties and responsibilities compared to the other 9 Network managers in the county. Essentially he's the worst person they could have picked and the lowest paid by quite a bit (rightfully too).

 

2. The council have as yet never sent me a contract that had the correct wage on it, 4 attempts over 15 months that I've refused to sign. Legally i'm fine as I have moved internally, technically I'm still covered under my previous contract. I can see them, however evaluating me under one of their 4 mysterious wages - all of them at least 5 grand less than I actually get.

 

3. They say they spoke to 1 in 5 employees. Yet there's 10 network managers, they only spoke to one and they spoke to nobody at all at any of the 8 high schools I've asked (there are only 11 high schools). I'm really annoyed as I LOVE my job and had just compliled a huge list of work to do over the holidays. I've just got engaged and we'll be looking to get a large house and get married in 2009 which means a LOT of saving up. Effectively if they do freeze it and I face a large cut they'll end up losing me even though I want to stay.

 

I've worked so hard over the past 14 months since starting there that I'll be gutted to leave all that hard work for someone else to come into and claim credit for in our review later this year. grr!

 

It'll be interesting to say the least when I get my interview and my payment letter tomorrow from the head teacher. I've been asking around for suggestions of things to do if I get a pay freeze/cut. there include

 

1. Stand up and as I slowly unzip my fly say "this is going to hurt you far more than it'll hurt me."

 

2. Hand over a brown envelope and say "I'm really sorry." then walk out. Of course it's an empty envelope..

 

3. Put my bottom lip out and sulk, whenever anyone tries to comfort me "go limp" like a child does.

 

4. Stand up, walk out but before I close the door mutter under my breath "I'll be back."

 

5. Smile happily, say I enjoyed the joke and ask for the correct letter.

Personally if you get a pay cut/freeze I would ask them for a Detailed breakdown on how they came to the decision, then take it along with a copy of your job description to your union rep(if you have one).

 

I personally would "Stamp my feet" and make life as difficult as possible for all concerned if my pay were cut, but i'm an awkward git anyway.

 

My local council is doing a job/pay review at the moment, sending out forms asking what we do etc etc, i'l be damned if I dont come out as underpaid lol.

 

Good luck m8

[Joedetic]

You forgot "lie on your stomach and beat the floor with fists and feet."

 

Have you taken union advice on this?

[srochford]

2. The council have as yet never sent me a contract that had the correct wage on it, 4 attempts over 15 months that I've refused to sign. Legally i'm fine as I have moved internally, technically I'm still covered under my previous contract. I can see them, however evaluating me under one of their 4 mysterious wages - all of them at least 5 grand less than I actually get.

 

Your council sound as efficient as our personnel department :-)

 

Are you sure about the fact that you're still covered under your previous contract? I'm not a lawyer but one of the things I've heard in the past is that if you accept the salary each month then effectively you're accpeting the contract (unless you've explicitly rejected it)

[Halfmad]

Sadly it's all legal and above board - apparently. All I can say is I bet the gap between most managers and those they manage widens dramatically, they need large numbers of people to lose money in order to fund the boost they're giving to other staff so it'll be the little people who get it in the neck.

 

Srochford - yeah I should be fine, although they have to put me on the network manager level I do have it in writing about my pay etc from the headteacher as part of my acceptance for the post.

 

Sadly I can see a lot of strike action, 19% of people are facing pay freeze then in 4 years a pay cut (if it hasn't caught up). Everyone else is getting a pay rise of some kind, even if it's only tiny. I'm guessing they'll be trying to make the majority happy to keep the rest quiet, but I doubt the unions will be tricked by it.

 

Narked off as I really like my job and would hate to be forced into leaving because someone else decided to devalue my work. What really gets me is that although we can appeal, everyone in our post in this region has to do it as a group, not on an individual basic. We can't compare our jobs with those in other councils either, essentially they're making it as difficult as possible to cause a fuss.

 

If it's bad I'll simply work to rule, all of the advanced and heavy tech work that I'd got planned will be shelved and I certainly won't be working 10 hour days over the summer as I'd planned. They'll shoot themselves in the foot.

 

Not going to get stressed about it, plenty of jobs out there - shame I like this one so much

[Friez]

2. The council have as yet never sent me a contract that had the correct wage on it, 4 attempts over 15 months that I've refused to sign. Legally i'm fine as I have moved internally, technically I'm still covered under my previous contract. I can see them, however evaluating me under one of their 4 mysterious wages - all of them at least 5 grand less than I actually get.

Are you sure about the fact that you're still covered under your previous contract? I'm not a lawyer but one of the things I've heard in the past is that if you accept the salary each month then effectively you're accpeting the contract (unless you've explicitly rejected it)

 

Unless he signs it, he hasn't agreed to it so legally he is not bound by the new contract(s).

 

If he has new contracts shoved under his nose he can refuse to sign them. The employer has a choice to either continue with the old contract or make him redundant.

 

Afterall if what you said above is legal then this situation would happen everywhere:

 

Month 1) HI! Welcome to our company, you'll be earning 40k p/a and earning generous benefits.

 

Month 2) We have a new contract for you, you'll now be earning 10k p/a and we cut the benefits. Have a nice day. P.S. No need for you to sign it, we're already docking your pay by 30k.

 

If that is legal then I'll be absolutely flabberghasted.

[russdev]

Right pay is different but change in terms of contract can be enforced after 3 months even if you don't sign.

 

So if contract changes to say you must perform a rain dance every day and not offer you more money say and you disagree and refuse to sign.

 

After 3 months they can enforce the contract and you have three choices one resign, two accept contract, three get union etc to take it tribunal and argue that increase in role should have an increase in pay.

 

Pay they can legally reduce it part of pay review scheme like op is going through in which case they have to prove that reduction is valid and inline and not a cost cutting excerise.

 

 

 

Russ

[SteveB_NI]

It'll be interesting to say the least when I get my interview and my payment letter tomorrow from the head teacher. I've been asking around for suggestions of things to do if I get a pay freeze/cut. there include:

 

That would be a certain Computer components website, with a nice blue background on the discussion forums wouldn't it?

 

Sorry, off topic!

[Halfmad]

It'll be interesting to say the least when I get my interview and my payment letter tomorrow from the head teacher. I've been asking around for suggestions of things to do if I get a pay freeze/cut. there include:

 

That would be a certain Computer components website, with a nice blue background on the discussion forums wouldn't it?

 

Sorry, off topic!

Indeed it would!

 

Anyway got my results - pay frozen for 4 years, no cost of living increase, no increment increase. By then it should have caught up with my current pay level. They've rated the top of my job scale as £2200 less than I currently get.

 

I'm right at the top of my grade as well so in effect after the 4 years I'll only ever get cost of living increases. That's the bit that's really annoyed me, I've effectively been told I'll never be worth more regardless of what I learn or the training I go on, it's impossible for me to be more valuable to the council.

 

Headteacher is furious and has asked me to appeal in october, if that fails I think I'll ask him for a training budget that allows me to choose which courses I go on each year. If I knew each year I was going to have something to look forward too I'd probably be happy to stay for a good while. I love my job but in 4 years I will have a family to look after which might well change things!

 

It could have been worse and in effect I don't have a pay cut until next april as I won't get anything then, however I will be furious if I find out those in the central IT department were put in the grade above me - they do 5 fixes a day (adobe reader installs, printer repairs, etc) which is about 2 hours work for most people if they include traveling time!

[DrummerBoy]

Right pay is different but change in terms of contract can be enforced after 3 months even if you don't sign.

 

So if contract changes to say you must perform a rain dance every day and not offer you more monet say and you disagree and refuse to sign.

 

After 3 months they can enforce the contract and you have three choices one resign, two accept contract, three get union etc to take it tribunal and argue that increase in role should have an increase in pay.

 

Pay they can legally reduce it part of pay review scheme like op is going through in which case they have to prove that reduction is valid and inline and not a cost cutting excerise.

 

Russ

 

Russ, my bold, but haviong been through a large amount of this recently (not in the education sector, but from a management perspective) this would count as a slam dunk contructive dismissal case.

 

Under no circumstances whatsoever can an employer say to an employee that resignation is an option, without being wide up to contructive dismissal claims.

 

According to the legal advice we've had even reducing a person's salary, and then they resign, could be solid grounds for contructive dismissal.

 

I would have to say that most of the powers in this area are with the employee these days.

[russdev]

Sorry wasn't clear.

 

No wasn't saying county say resign I am saying you have 3 options to deal with the problem resign (off your own back), take deal or take it tribunal.

 

Also as been said before a head can bump you wage up as long as you take on an extra role of some kind.

 

Russ

[MkII]

I thought it was 2 years Russ under Custom & Practice - where do you get 3 months from?!?

[Halfmad]

Also as been said before a head can bump you wage up as long as you take on an extra role of some kind.Russ

 

that's something he said straight away this morning, he'll push for an upgrade as I do look after our primary schools as well as the high school. Only 1 day a week but it counts as extra duties and responsibility.

[CyberNerd]

1) you can appeal against the evaluation because the job that they evaluated to grade your post was not a fair representation. The evaluation process would have been agreed with the recognised trade union and an appeals process would have been published. I'm sure the trade union wouldn't have agreed to collective appeals only ! get a copy of the appeals process document.

 

2) Four years protected salary is actually a good deal - this would have been negotiated by the union, so it sounds like the union know what they are doing!?

 

3) the point that needs to be made to the LA is that the IT jobs are not generic, they are specific to the schools requirements.

 

4) don't rely on what the HT tells you, regarding appeals - normally when your shown a new job description and salary you have a month to appeal - LA may be telling HT this to stall and prevent appeals. - again get a copy of the appeals process document it will be detailed in there, follow that document to the letter.

[Halfmad]

The appeals process is outlined in a letter I've been given with my new contract, along with a statement telling me to either sign and return it by the 22nd or they'll send me a letter in september offering to "let me go".

 

The unions haven't agreed to anything as yet, the council is pushing ahead and using the 4 year protected scheme as an carrot to keep us quiet - as it's better than a 3 year freeze. I'm guessing that a vast majority of people will be at the same wage after 4 years, mine will be close but it depends how much the cost of living rises are.

 

I'll appeal on grounds that not only do I have more duties but I also have no technician, frankly if they gave me a technician I'd be over the moon but looking at it realistically I can't see that happening within 4 years at the speed the council works.

[CyberNerd]

It sounds as though the council are being rather devious implementing the job evaluation. You should appeal now saying that you have been matched to the wrong job. What they are trying to do is to get you to accept the job title and once you do that you cannot appeal against the salary that has been attached to that job. Very devious!

 

If the job description they are offering you does not match what you do, the normal process is that you appeal on those grounds and they should then ask you to complete a questionnaire. The information from this questionnaire will be evaluated to see whether they have made a mistake and matched you to the incorrect role. Failure to follow this procedure, alongside the threat that if you do not sign that this is your job, and your employment will be terminated, could be unfair dismissal! What in the earth have the union been doing?

 

If there is a recognised trade union (the council will have an agreement with them) all of this should have been consulted on prior to the implementation of the process. It's outrageous! The union could get all the employees together and put in a collective grievance to the council that they have failed to consult. There is a legal obligation here. There is plenty of case law on this subject (google it)

 

I know laws are different in Scotland so i think the best thing to do is to contact ACAS . http://www.acas.org.uk/ to confirm what I have said.

[Halfmad]

well as it turns out it seems to be mostly cleaners, technicians, library workers that have been targetted, some have been given small increases but are now at the top of their new grade - meaning they'll never get another pay rise. It's crafty as hell.

 

I'm willing to be the gap between managers and staff has widened rather a lot to

 

I can't believe they've targetted people under £20,000/year. It's sick.

[Midget]

Don't believe the "cost of living" increase b*ll*cks. I was at the top of my pay scale and told I couldn't move up, I'd just get inflation or cost of living increases from then onwards.

I got £2.50/month increase in April, which I found completely insulting.

 

Inflation this year was 3.1%

I got <0.2%

[russdev]

@Mark I was told if work 3 months and refuse to sign contract then it becomes inforced was what i was told by union people when we had conversation about it .

 

But maybe wrong but was way less than 2 years..

 

As for pay review I would a consult unions, appeal I would also make a point of confirming with your union the appeal process.

 

If not in union join now we will wait...

[Firefly_Transport]

A note about abruptly joining a union,

 

Most if not all will not handle an existing issue at point of joining

Most if not all will be extremely leery of anything major in the 1st 3-months

 

They are not being unreasonable, it can cost a fair bit to defend somebody and they are not just there for your bad times, they are supposed to be there for everybody.

 

The best advice is to join a union off-bat, from personal experience it’s a wise investment in personal legal protection - unless you are labouring under some illusion the school/LEA will bail you out if things go pear-shaped.

 

My advice - Go and talk to a professional - IE a solicitor, most run a fixed fee interview and can advise you of your position. This charge is around £50 - £100 depending on solicitors. If you can't afford it - go to a citizen’s advice centre. With the best will in the world, everybody else is nothing more than a well meaning amateur.

[Halfmad]

I won't join a union, they're in the back pocket of the council as far as I'm concerned. Essentially the only way you get anywhere in our council is by being a union rep and doing as you're told.

 

I'll work something out, my boss unlike many values me and wants me to stay. The last two network managers were frankly a joke and they've noticed a huge improvement since I started.

 

If things get iffy I'll call my cousin, she's a lawyer

 

I doubt they will though, too many people watching this for the council to have slipped up legally. There will be appeals but we all know they've timed it so a majority of staff go off on holiday and forget about what's coming.

[Midget]

my boss unlike many values me and wants me to stay.

 

That's actually quite rare, mine thought that just anyone could look after a network of 400machines.

[alonebfg]

The problem is that no 2 techs do the same job it depends how much the school ca afford ie in secondry schools you have 3 techs one is maybe a network manager one fixes and works on servers and the other does pcs but the all work together. but i know in a lot of primary schools the tech does the lot from adding users to rebuilding server fixing pcs as there is usually only one.

Ii know this is the same in some secondry schools. I dont see how they can put everyone in the same band it is not like teaching where every teacher does the same job. I am not happy with all this at all. and have made this known to my union.

[Firefly_Transport]

The problem is that no 2 techs do the same job it depends how much the school ca afford ie in secondry schools you have 3 techs one is maybe a network manager one fixes and works on servers and the other does pcs but the all work together. but i know in a lot of primary schools the tech does the lot from adding users to rebuilding server fixing pcs as there is usually only one.

Ii know this is the same in some secondry schools. I dont see how they can put everyone in the same band it is not like teaching where every teacher does the same job. I am not happy with all this at all. and have made this known to my union.

 

They will try because the poor widdle accounts can't get their heads around the concept of IT.

 

Which I find amazing given the complixitys of tax law are much like a Microsoft Licensing agreement.

[Midget]

In the eyes of many, an IT tech is no more than a caretaker for computers, they're just there to turn them on, or phone a company to take them away and fix them if they are broken, other than that they spend all their day sitting around not doing anything.