[BBC News] U-turn signalled over no-notice inspections for schools

[elsiegee40]

BBC News - U-turn signalled over no-notice inspections for schools

 

This is sensible in my opinion.

 

At zero notice, I can see the inspectors turning up and the HT not being there or there being no lessons for a targeted subject area. At least a phone call two days in advance can ensure the right people are on site.

[witch]

I agree to some extent but one day's notice should be enough IMHO

[elsiegee40]

I agree to some extent but one day's notice should be enough IMHO

Fair point... I just see Ofsted wasting there time if they just turn up. Often they want to see governors too... and there's precious little chance of making a call on the day and getting the CoG on site!

[SYNACK]

Pffft, the whole thing is a scam. They should have zero notice assessments. They may need to adjust the assessment criteria but getting two weeks notice is like giving them the oppertunity to assess a different school instead. They end up with stuff all of an idea what the school is really like as the full dog and poney show is trotted out for their benifit.

 

This is teaching unions winning again over the interests of the children being 'educated'.

[featured_spectre]

No notice is the best notice...change criteria to come back 2 weeks later to see governors and HT etc...but just show up, and inspect lessons, show them for how they really are...every school I have worked at, soon as ofsted is mentioned, the bad kids are shipped elsewhere and the school gets seen in a different light. Teachers want things fixed that they have never even mentioned were broken, they want the earth when it comes to technology, despite never asking for it previously...it makes no sense...do things as a surprise then see the vital people at a later date.

 

Nothing better than seeing a school on a surprise visit.

[elsiegee40]

Points accepted... maybe it is Ofsted who have to accept the need to return at a later date should the desired people not be there.

 

I have just been discussing this with a teacher friend who was subjected to a trial no notice inspection... and she much preferred it to an inspection with notice.

[witch]

Pffft, the whole thing is a scam. They should have zero notice assessments. They may need to adjust the assessment criteria but getting two weeks notice is like giving them the oppertunity to assess a different school instead. They end up with stuff all of an idea what the school is really like as the full dog and poney show is trotted out for their benifit.

 

This is teaching unions winning again over the interests of the children being 'educated'.

I know what you mean but that is why I said 1 day, or even 2. There is certainly not time, even in two weeks, to sort out a school and make it 'good' by Ofsted's criteria, because the data and results just wouldnt be there anyway. And any Ofsted inspector who couldnt see through the 'titivating' to the real school, doesn't deserve the title of inspector.

[laserblazer]

I don't know if this is true but I heard that there was an article in the Telegraph about a PE teacher being given an unsatisfactory observation during a games lesson because some of the pupils were standing around doing very little. They were fielding in a cricket match! It does seem that some Ofsted inspectors really have little idea?

[localzuk]

What gets me is that the backing down is coming due to heads complaining about it being invasive or that it treats the profession of teaching like they're bad or something.

 

That response is typical of the reaction to monitoring I've seen from other aspects of teaching too - for example in my last school there was a proposal to put CCTV cameras in the IT rooms, but one of the rooms was controlled by a single teacher and she refused as she felt like we'd be spying on her - so vandalism continued in that room and we couldn't get it sorted out.

 

They're all missing the point - the only way to ensure quality of work and to ensure things aren't going wrong is through outside input. I had an ICT audit earlier this year and I welcomed them with open arms - I want to know if I'm doing something wrong, its the only way I can improve!

 

Why does being inspected with no notice mean they're being treated badly? Surely the right response would be to go 'ok, a new challenge, lets do the best we can for our kids'?

[GrumbleDook]

The Head not being around should not be an issue as someone has the legal authority delegated to them whilst they are away (usually the DH). This is an area that falls under the quality of leadership in and management of the school.

[SYNACK]

I know what you mean but that is why I said 1 day, or even 2. There is certainly not time, even in two weeks, to sort out a school and make it 'good' by Ofsted's criteria, because the data and results just wouldnt be there anyway. And any Ofsted inspector who couldnt see through the 'titivating' to the real school, doesn't deserve the title of inspector.

 

Even one or two days gives the teachers ample time to actually do planning, move pupils etc. It also creates the disruptive and abusive behaviour as the school scrambles. TBH it is a teacher wellbeing thing, I would think that they would preffer not being in a fight or flight pannic condition for two weeks while they prepare and are pushed by smt to do better. They would be better off just being assessed quickly and the full truth comming out.

 

You would think that the assessor would be able to pick up on the whitewash but even if they are good they could still easily miss things that have been well hidden.

 

Any other profession complining about not being notified a good time in advance that they were going to be assessed would be questioned about what they were trying to hide. Why are teachers so different?

[SimpleSi]

Why are teachers so different?

Because very few other professionals are treated so un-professionally by our govements

 

Ofsted inspections are like having the Spanish Inqusition desceding on you

 

Imagine an ICT inspector comes in and finds that some of you laptops aren't making the standard for boot up time - you argue that they have slow processors and that the seek times aren't as good as the other ones. This cuts no ice with the inspectors and they label your network as "satisfactory". The next day, some "experts" come in from your ISP to show you how to spend in-ordinate amounts of time and effort to make these slow laptops match the "average" boot time.

 

Si

[SYNACK]

Because very few other professionals are treated so un-professionally by our govements

 

Ofsted inspections are like having the Spanish Inqusition desceding on you

 

Imagine an ICT inspector comes in and finds that some of you laptops aren't making the standard for boot up time - you argue that they have slow processors and that the seek times aren't as good as the other ones. This cuts no ice with the inspectors and they label your network as "satisfactory". The next day, some "experts" come in from your ISP to show you how to spend in-ordinate amounts of time and effort to make these slow laptops match the "average" boot time.

 

Si

 

Surely other jobs are also assessed and the penalties are probably worse than additional training, like disciplinary action, suspention or being fired. Its not like teachers are alone in being assessed. Perhaps ICT is not assessed as much as they have shown time and again that they don't think that is is that important or difficult until they need it.

 

TBH would it not be good if when there was a problem it was highlighted and help provided, even if it was experts to give new ideas on how to do things better or at least come in and say that its slow because... your computers are junk. It does not really sound to much like a punnishment, more like free and enforced research.

[Gibbo]

Because very few other professionals are treated so un-professionally by our govements .

 

That doesn't give them excuse to work to a level below what OFSTED and the government expects. If they can do it for the days that Ofsted are in then they can do it all year round.

 

If some things checked are not relevant - like documented lesson plans - why don't the unions take issue with this with Ofsted rather than threats of strikes?

 

And I'd love to see Ofsted see how they talk to support staff during inspection times - a member of staff had a go at one of my team for a non functioning projector that had allegedly been broken for a week - but not reported (it was turned off at the wall). When I asked the staff member if they had any back-up lesson plan for eventualities like this, they looked blankly at me.

 

There is no excuse for shouting or unprofessionalism. Are they same with the students when under pressure?

 

Personally I'd welcome an OFSTED for ICT Support. We work to the same level day in, day out. We don't rush round doing stuff that should already be in place for when an inspection is due.

 

Every day's notice gives an extra day to tart or cover something up. I've seen many examples of this over the years, from rapid redecoration to six months worth of unmarked work rapidly group marked.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Gibbo

[SimpleSi]

You know - I'm constantly amazed at the ability of my fellow edugeekers to provide and run a faultless service everyday of the year surrounded by incompetent and lazy teachers and SMT.

 

Now unless I was working in the military or a nuclear power station where non-readiness to deal with emergencies could lead to fatal consequences, I'd hope that as a human being and employee that I could be given a bit of notice of an inspection so that I could present my best foot forward. (Like I used to in my previous job with QA inspections)

 

Si

[featured_spectre]

I never ran a faultless system, but downtime only ever happened when lightning struck the school and surged the plugs.

 

If I was ever ill I was inundated with helpdesk tickets, mainly for issues like the internet not working on laptops or laptops not logging in...result being WiFi being turned off.

 

Common sense with mist staff didn't exist, and thankfully I taught the science tech enough to fix basic issues which helped when i was offsite.

 

I welcomed audits and reviews by external companies as they highlighted where things were not up to scratch and gave advice on how to improve things. I even asked the HT to organise some as a surprise so I could be caught off guard, as a result, I always did things to the best of my ability and had redundancies where possible...why can't teachers see ofsted as the same sort of thing?

Edited May 7, 2012 by featured_spectre

[localzuk]

You know - I'm constantly amazed at the ability of my fellow edugeekers to provide and run a faultless service everyday of the year surrounded by incompetent and lazy teachers and SMT.

 

Now unless I was working in the military or a nuclear power station where non-readiness to deal with emergencies could lead to fatal consequences, I'd hope that as a human being and employee that I could be given a bit of notice of an inspection so that I could present my best foot forward. (Like I used to in my previous job with QA inspections)

 

I don't think anyone claims to run a faultless network, and your argument slightly misses the point. How do we know if our network is faultless or not - by inspecting it, or getting it audited by external bodies. There have been many calls from members on here for the latter, as we simply can't know if we've missed something in our own network.

 

You're not supposed to 'put your best foot forward', as you're then lying. Why isn't your best foot being put forward every day? Why should it have to be to do with fatal consequences to be able to ensure the best is happening in your place of employment? Don't we as tax payers deserve that, or as parents, or even as professionals?

[SimpleSi]

Some of you deserve trophies

 

Ofsted are not professional auditors - they are hit squads.

 

Just look at their current boss

 

And look at his boss - they want to change the word satisfactory to mean not satisfactory - I'm sure there was a book written about such people - 1980 something

 

Si

[PICNIC]

No Notice is better, less 'Painting the Grass Green' has to be better!

[localzuk]

Some of you deserve trophies

 

Ofsted are not professional auditors - they are hit squads.

 

Just look at their current boss

 

And look at his boss - they want to change the word satisfactory to mean not satisfactory - I'm sure there was a book written about such people - 1980 something

 

Ofsted are not 'hit squads'. Sure, they sometimes get things wrong, but so does everyone, but the point remains - they create a report highlighting what needs improving in schools. They arrive at schools having been prepped by the prior report and other documentation - their job is to find out if things have changed since the last time.

 

Terminology used is neither here nor there - they should just get rid of the wording and stick to numbering.

[Sirbendy]

Ofsted have never bothered me. They have their job to do, I have mine. If they walk in and I'm repairing a downed PC, they get a nod and a "good morning, can I assist you?", and I'm back to the job in hand. If things are down, staff need to work round it - ours do well. We will get it running as soon as we can, but until that time inventiveness rules.

 

What I found funny last time was there was a person here, who used to be my old maths teacher...saw her in the canteen, so we were having a catchup and dinner, after 15 years. "What brings you to our humble establishment then?"..."I work for OFSTED now.".

 

"Ah! I see. Got out of maths teaching then eh? Good for you."

 

and so on. OFSTED are human, just like everyone else.

[elsiegee40]

.... OFSTED are human, just like everyone else.

 

You're a marked man now @Sirbendy for spreading information like that!

[GrumbleDook]

You know - I'm constantly amazed at the ability of my fellow edugeekers to provide and run a faultless service everyday of the year surrounded by incompetent and lazy teachers and SMT.

 

Now unless I was working in the military or a nuclear power station where non-readiness to deal with emergencies could lead to fatal consequences, I'd hope that as a human being and employee that I could be given a bit of notice of an inspection so that I could present my best foot forward. (Like I used to in my previous job with QA inspections)

 

Si

 

Unfortunately I will both agree and disagree with you.

 

Some of what OFSTED looks at can be dealt with by using normal QA models (which are open to abuse in other sectors but most inspectors know this and know how to spot when someone is attempting to do some pulling of will over eyes) and you could put quality of learning / teaching in here ... some of the policies / processes under quality of leadership / management ...

 

But I disagree about there not being sections which have to be dealt with as rigorously as if it was the military, etc. Safeguarding is a place that needs no-notice inspections. Unless you turn up and ask to look at what is happening there and then, you risk missing important issues when things are going wrong ... and if that makes them more like hit men then yes, that is what is needed.

 

There are plenty of no-notice inspections in different sectors. Some of them are secret shopper style but that is a little hard to do in a school :-) ... and there are plenty which give a bit of notice ... it is about working out which bit is most appropriate and when.

[X-13]

and so on. OFSTED are human, just like everyone else.

 

True facts.

 

Our HT is ex-OFSTED. [Apparently]

 

 

I've always said OFSTED inspections need to be done without warning. We have/had teachers who, when OFSTED say they're coming in, start planning special lessons to show off the ability of the class and cover up their own weaknesses.

 

How are teachers supposed to get better [nobody is perfect] if their weaknesses can't be assessed?

 

Ofsted inspections are like having the Spanish Inqusition desceding on you

 

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa239/Slytherin17/Monty%20Python%20stuff/SpanishInquisition.gif

 

 

[sorry... had to be done.]

Edited May 8, 2012 by X-13

[elsiegee40]

T

How are teachers supposed to get better [nobody is perfect] if their weaknesses can't be assessed?

 

[Devil's Advocate]So teachers can only be assessed for weakness by no notice inspection?[/Devil's Advocate]