F1 Bahrain GP

[synaesthesia]

And now it appears Anonymous are in on the act, ddosing the formula1.com site as well as other services for "human rights" reasons. These people are just as bad, and I thought as a whole they were a bit more intelligent. Unfortunately not, this attack is for revenge reasons more than anything based on something that happened over there.

 

Never mind, we won't mention anything that happens in South America or China then.

[pcstru]

Never mind, we won't mention anything that happens in South America or China then.

 

Why do you seem to think that just because regime A get's away with Human rights abuses, that we can't mention the abuses in regime B?

 

Or that because someone doesn't explicitly condemn all the ills in the world, they are forbidden from mentioning any specific ill?

[synaesthesia]

sorry pcstru, I'm not going to argue it with you because it's clear you're not interested in listening or believing someone else can have an opinion. In my slight defense, it's nothing like what you've just suggested, rather a query as to why it's OK for someone to take action like this against Bahrain when far worse happens elsewhere.

[pcstru]

sorry pcstru, I'm not going to argue it with you because it's clear you're not interested in listening or believing someone else can have an opinion.

Why on earth would I not 'believe' that anyone can have an opinion? Do you perhaps mean that I won't listen to rational argument and even if confronted with demonstrable, replicable, hard and fast facts I wouldn't change my mind? If so, then you need to provide some evidence of that, not just post an opinion baldly stated as somehow being the 'truth'.

 

In my slight defense, it's nothing like what you've just suggested, rather a query as to why it's OK for someone to take action like this against Bahrain when far worse happens elsewhere.

 

I asked you two perfectly reasonable questions :

 

Why do you seem to think that just because regime A get's away with Human rights abuses, that we can't mention the abuses in regime B?

 

Or that because someone doesn't explicitly condemn all the ills in the world, they are forbidden from mentioning any specific ill?

 

Your 'defence' begs them, it doesn't begin to address them.

[CAM]

Becasue unless we have a dedicated human rights abuses channel, there wouldn't be enough time in the day to list them all in the news.

[pcstru]

Becasue unless we have a dedicated human rights abuses channel, there wouldn't be enough time in the day to list them all in the news.

 

I have a dreadful image of the distaste on a teachers face as she is called over by a pupil on a computer with the words, "Haw Missus, it's hung".

[synaesthesia]

At no point have I said that because one regime gets away with something that we can't mention another.

I can't provide "hard and fast facts" for something which was simply a comment based on my opinion which many others share (and obviously many others do not). Have already given the reason for that.

I'm not going to sit here and address reasons for my opinions, nor am I asking you to address yours; it just feels as if you're jumping on me for something a bit too seriously. I'm doped up on painkillers strong enough to floor a horse at this very moment so I apologise if I'm not being entirely coherent, so it's possible I may be misunderstanding something.

With this in mind, perhaps it's best to agree to disagree on it; I'm an F1 fan and couldn't care less about the politics involved, I know there's problems *in our eyes* but such problems are not related to F1. The fact that F1 is going ahead there is being used to bolster some issues unnecessarily; the protests have absolutely nothing to do with the sport. Yes, I'm aware that the protagonists involved do have a lot of financial involvement in F1 and no doubt benefit from it, but it's no worse than the south american countries, certainly no worse than China.

Let's leave any argument there because it has no bearing on who we are as humans.

[pcstru]

@synaesthesia

 

I'm sincerely sorry that you are feeling under the weather.

 

I was a big fan of F1. Until this year, I'd get up at silly times to watch qual, races etc. I'd even try and find a sim to put in some track time to at least know where the corners were. I've given up this year. I will not pay the price for a sky subscription and I can't avoid the news, so for me watching a race and knowing the result is ... not going to work.

 

My comments in this thread have been on F1 (they care more about money than they do about people) and your peripheral statements (equivocating Amnesty International with the Daily Mail for example). I've actually not commented on the regime in Bahrain but hey, I'll cop an opinion : I don't like them. They ARE repressive dictators and they STILL behave as tyrants. They should be encouraged toward change.

 

Mind you, if I was being really cynical I'd say that : "F1 by visiting Bahrain has certainly bought more attention to the appalling human rights situation in that country than they would have had they not visited. As someone who has an 'opinion' of dislike for that regime, I actually think that's a good thing.".

 

But hey, that would be, like ... poor, perhaps.

 

Anyway, get well soon.

Edited April 20, 2012 by pcstru

[synaesthesia]

It's true though. I still think that if they really are worried, then they shouldn't drag on the uneasiness until - well it's still going on and they could still pull out last minute. It's unnecessary and makes things far worse than they are.

 

As said, comparison with Daily Mail wasn't meaning anything more than the tendency to exaggerate massively (I can tender some evidence here, my NM pointed me at a video today, the Daily Mail Cancer Song) rather than any serious political wrongdoings. I try and avoid the political side of things because the hypocracy of it gives me a huge headache, and any time I try to understand it, I feel like as citizens, we can either do wrong, or do wrong, vote for what's wrong, or what's wrong in a different way. Perhaps I'm just even more cynical than I'd like to admit

 

Regardless, here's hoping that noone gets hurt during this weekend's race, and that perhaps one day we can wake up to world peace. Personally, I'd just rather have the dream that I can wake up in the future to see my kids doing well and being safe

[dalsoth]

Couldn't give a monkeys about the politics. All of these middle eastern countries seem to want to blast themselves back into medieval times. Leave em to it. Bring on the racing!!

[pcstru]

Couldn't give a monkeys about the politics.

Great! Shall we call that point 1, exhibit A.

All of these middle eastern countries seem to want to blast themselves back into medieval times. Leave em to it.

Isn't that just a bit political? Isn't for instance their ability to blast themselves back into medieval times largely possible because the west (yes, that's ME and YOU), sell them weapons capable of such large blasts? And how did they get the money to buy such toys. Oh - all that petrol we buy to run our cars. But hey, sure, let's get all Daily Mail - "Blast themselves back into medieval times - leave em to it". Right on!

 

If you really didn't give a monkeys about the politics couldn't you just proceed to exhibit C :

Bring on the racing!!

 

And how dare a bit of mere ... 'human rights' get in the way of that.

[synaesthesia]

Come on now, it's not worth the argument. It's going to divide people strongly and for good reason; human rights is one of the best reasons and there's no denying it's a worthy cause, the only question here which can't be answered is how much F1 has to do with it. Anger needs directing at the people directly involved, not passer-bys.

[synaesthesia]

So a reasonably successful race with no incidents, in fact the only controversy is why the hell Rosberg didn't get black flagged or at least heavily penalised during the race for pushing 2 drivers off-circuit. Not a bad race otherwise, yet another winner to add to the list this season and it's still so wide open!

And to boot, not half a bad race for Force India despite pulling out of FP2.

[Gibbo]

A good race. Hope all the armchair experts with their views on world politics who boycotted the race feel better for their moral victory, I'm sure it will usher in a change over there!

[synaesthesia]

Very, very, very annoyed that the FIA have decided against any action against Rosberg for extremely dangerous driving and rulebreaking.

Alonso's tweet says it all:

 

Fernando Alonso ‏ @alo_oficial Reply Retweeted Favorite · Open

I think you are going to have fun in future races! You can defend position as you want and you can overtake outside the track! Enjoy! ))

[mthomas08]

Very, very, very annoyed that the FIA have decided against any action against Rosberg for extremely dangerous driving and rulebreaking.

Alonso's tweet says it all:

 

Fernando Alonso ‏ @alo_oficial Reply Retweeted Favorite · Open

I think you are going to have fun in future races! You can defend position as you want and you can overtake outside the track! Enjoy! ))

 

Although it did look dangerous to be honest, I think its all racing

 

nice for Alonso to mention Lewis's race - must be the first thing on his mind when its over "Where is hamil-ton".

[Pyroman]

Wow! Just wow! I've just read through the comments on here and people's lack of compassion is absolutely phenomenal. Just as an example to get you to think then, Say our government was killing our citizens in the streets because you were protesting, say the anti war march in london a few years ago, your government didn't agree so they shot you, your family, your children. Imagine all of that, how you'd feel having your children and family murdered and then some men in top hats and gold plated cars came and said "look we know you're having a few small "problems" but would you mind if we came and raced? Yes yes yes human right blah blah but ooooouuuuurrrrr raaaaaaccccceeeee!!!!" It's astounding that because it's not happening on your front door then you don't care. Oh china has bad human rights aswell, okay well until they start sorting themselves out then we'll not worry about anyone elses either. Heck let's just get rid of human rights all together, then if a protester dares say anything we can drive-by-shoot them from the F1 cars, Imagine that! We'd make a lot of money selling that.

 

Go back to sleep, watch the shiny shinys making loud noises and ignore what's happening in the world.

 

Also this argument that having the F1 brings more attention to the region is complete rubbish, if people actually cared it would be front page news instead it's who won the latest BGT/X-factor .

 

Until people realise that we're all human beings and we ALL deserve to be treated equally we'll just carry on not caring and this planet and it's inhabitants standards of living and basic rights will just continue to decline.

 

/rant

[pcstru]

Hope all the armchair experts with their views on world politics who boycotted the race feel better for their moral victory, I'm sure it will usher in a change over there!

 

I boycotted the race because :

a) they sold out on a commitment to live races on Free To Air (they don't care about their fans) and

b) because they are supporting a regieme that was tear gassing it's people and chucking Jouranlists out who were reporting that, even while the race was on.

 

So I get double value out of my boycott AND I whenever I cop a double boycott I get a bonus 1500 Nectar points!

 

But no, there is no moral victory while people are having their doors kicked down in the middle of the night and dragged off to the cells without being accorded basic legal or human rights. It's kind of sad that people don't see that. I'm reminded (too often these days) of these lines :

 

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

 

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

 

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

 

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Edited April 23, 2012 by pcstru

[mthomas08]

But no, there is no moral victory while people are having their doors kicked down in the middle of the night and dragged off to the cells without being accorded basic legal or human rights. It's kind of sad that people don't see that. I'm reminded (too often these days) of these lines :

 

[/i][/b]

 

A lot of these responses are actually seeing the Bahrain problem, the arguement is Bahrain is not the only F1 country that forgets about Human Rights. China is a prime example, the only real difference is its just not getting the news any more. Even Brundle commentated on the fact that other sporting events HAVE taken place recently but because F1 goes there its a difference story. And people are taking the moral high ground even though they probably have purchased goods that are made by a 8 year old slave labour lucky if they are earning 1P a day struggling to feed their family. People are not saying that the race SHOULD HAVE*edit gone ahead without question, people are simply saying F1 still goes to other countries which suffer serious human rights issues.

Edited April 23, 2012 by mthomas08

[synaesthesia]

The F1 had absolutely bugger all to do with it. It was just an event that happened to be going ahead at the time of unrest. Noone is saying there isn't a problem, noone is saying things should be ignored. My only issue is the way the F1 was used to highlight it as if it was F1's fault. It's not. It didn't make it any worse, it could possibly help (although that's naive, it probably hasn't).

 

** edited, sorry no need for that.

Edited April 23, 2012 by synaesthesia

[Pyroman]

The F1 had absolutely bugger all to do with it. It was just an event that happened to be going ahead at the time of unrest. Noone is saying there isn't a problem, noone is saying things should be ignored. My only issue is the way the F1 was used to highlight it as if it was F1's fault. It's not. It didn't make it any worse, it could possibly help (although that's naive, it probably hasn't).

 

"Go back to sleep, watch the shiny shinys making loud noises and ignore what's happening in the world."

 

Grow the F up.

 

So back to my point, if this was happening on your front door and it was your family and your government would you still be saying oh yes come and have a race, nevermind what's going on, come and enjoy yourself, we know there are our problems, nothing to do with F1, don't mind that red stuff on the track.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Pyroman

[X-13]

And now it appears Anonymous are in on the act, ddosing the formula1.com site as well as other services for "human rights" reasons. These people are just as bad, and I thought as a whole they were a bit more intelligent. Unfortunately not, this attack is for revenge reasons more than anything based on something that happened over there.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13724[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

Le EDIT: Have some XKCD alt text too.

 

"It was their main recruiting poster, hung nearly ten feet up a wall! This means the hackers have LADDER technology! Are we headed for a future where everyone has to pay $50 for one of those locked plexiglass poster covers? More after the break ..."

Edited April 23, 2012 by X-13

[mthomas08]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13724[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

Le EDIT: Have some XKCD alt text too.

 

"It was their main recruiting poster, hung nearly ten feet up a wall! This means the hackers have LADDER technology! Are we headed for a future where everyone has to pay $50 for one of those locked plexiglass poster covers? More after the break ..."

 

Quality, although I have completely stopped support for Anonymous, I dont believe in anyone being judge jury and executioner who everyone has to believe their way or you get your website hacked in to..

 

@Pryoman

Totally agree with you but, would you feel the same if what occurs in China/India/Brazil (long time F1 track) and others even possible Mexico occurs on our door step too? Would you be happy to take a blind eye to drug lords on your street, Child labour, No rights for the poor, no one allowed to protest, torture, Propaganda, Website controls (which US tried to have put in place and some nations in F1 do currently).

 

If they do stop every track that goes to a country with serious Human rights issues, wouldnt the only ones left be EU/US?

 

The Olympics even went to China who lets face it still dont have a good track record, should that of gone there?

 

Some times maybe its a good thing for F1 to go to places like Bahrain as a result of F1 going there it was in the news non stop and opened peoples eyes to the real situations? If F1 wasnt going there in the first place it could of been simply forgotten?

[X-13]

Quality, although I have completely stopped support for Anonymous, I dont believe in anyone being judge jury and executioner who everyone has to believe their way or you get your website hacked in to..

 

 

I lost faith in them once it became apparent they were stealing credit card information.

 

It's not being done for protest, it's being done for greed.

[Pyroman]

Quality, although I have completely stopped support for Anonymous, I dont believe in anyone being judge jury and executioner who everyone has to believe their way or you get your website hacked in to..

 

@Pryoman

Totally agree with you but, would you feel the same if what occurs in China/India/Brazil (long time F1 track) and others even possible Mexico occurs on our door step too? Would you be happy to take a blind eye to drug lords on your street, Child labour, No rights for the poor, no one allowed to protest, torture, Propaganda, Website controls (which US tried to have put in place and some nations in F1 do currently).

 

If they do stop every track that goes to a country with serious Human rights issues, wouldnt the only ones left be EU/US?

 

The Olympics even went to China who lets face it still dont have a good track record, should that of gone there?

 

Some times maybe its a good thing for F1 to go to places like Bahrain as a result of F1 going there it was in the news non stop and opened peoples eyes to the real situations? If F1 wasnt going there in the first place it could of been simply forgotten?

 

The US having human rights for a start is a joke, look at their prison system and their homelessness and the aftermath for katrina for starters. And no i wouldn't be happy turning a blind eye to anything like that and i don't think i gave the impression that i would.

 

What you do about india/brazil/anywhere else i don't know, somehow you have to change the entire world to think about someone other than themselves but when you have big corporations running the world who really don't care then how do you get people motivated? This is all part of a much much larger picture though which would become a thesis if i continued, basically there is no class system as we like to see it, there's the rulers (who are not David and co. it's business), the workers and the underclass.